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RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 - 10/30/2012 1:25 PM   
buzzard bait


 

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From: Ithaca, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Fair enough. But the head screws on mine are slotted, the slots make a large gap but they are small so no screwdriver will work well without modification, and so far I can't get enough force on them to turn them. I may yet heat it with a torch and see if I can get them off. This engine has been more trouble than it is worth.

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RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 - 10/30/2012 10:38 PM   
Mr Cox



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Status: online 		Okey, stuck screws might be a valid reason...

My ASP engines all have hex socket screws and have been very easy to remove.

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RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 - 10/31/2012 7:42 AM   
Mr Cox



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Status: online 		Just a little picture of one of my engines, your's might be an older model?
(Never had any problems removing the screws, sure beats the Japanese ones from OS)


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RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 - 10/31/2012 9:22 PM   
Mr Cox



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Status: online 		The other obvious thing to do would be to run with a lower nitro content. I haven't tried it on the ASP, as far as I can remember, but 0-5% nitro would work better on the stock compression ratio and large props.

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RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 - 10/31/2012 10:14 PM   
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Status: offline 		Mine aren't like that, they are slotted screws, as stated.

Yes, I thought of lower nitro too. But I'm not going to have a separate fuel just to run in this engine.

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RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 - 10/31/2012 10:26 PM   
combatpigg



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Status: offline 		Both ASP .12s that I have run benefitted from complete dismantling when brand new and having the crank shaft-to-rear bearing fit relaxed and the 1st engine needed to have the rear bearing pushed deeper into the case with some Locktite because the fit with the case was loose.
I don't know how consistent these engines are in quality from batch to batch, but a good one will really scream for a .10 sized engine.
The smaller the engine, the easier it is to overload it, so don't expect stellar performance if you run it with .15 sized props.
I agree that lowering compression is an easy thing to try if the engine doesn't seem happy with an "overload prop" like a 8x3, 7.5x3, etc. Simply chopping the tips off a 8x3 MAS doesn't remove all the excess bulk on those overly thick blades.
I found the ASP .12 runs really well with 7x3, 6x4 and 5x5 props...just like what you would expect from any .10 sized engine.


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RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 - 11/1/2012 12:50 AM   
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Status: offline 		I got a big rpm increase by cutting the 8x3 down to 7 1/2x3. I don't remember how much, but it was very substantial. I realize the blade is still wider than the blade of a smaller prop. It certainly spun faster on 7 inch props, but that didn't improve the throttling.

The engine is very strong wide open on an 8x3. I don't doubt that it could deliver much more power with a lighter load, but that's not what I care about. It can already take the little Extra straight up. I don't care about flat out speed, which an Extra is not designed for anyway.

Interesting about the tear down and the bearings. The crank feels very free on mine. I suspect the head shim idea is best. The only way to get it off will be to take a medium screw driver and grind the sides down to fit the screws. Screw drivers small enough to fit the space provided for the screws in the head are too thin to get a good grip on the screws.

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RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 - 11/1/2012 2:47 AM   
combatpigg



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Status: offline 		I would be tempted to take a 8x3 prop and not just chop it down to 7.5", but also recontour the blades and scrape / shave some thickness off the blades [thin the blade's airfoil].
Devote about 15-20 minutes to a prop just to see if the throttle response improves and the needle gets less touchy.
I've worked over MAS props in other applications and they are pretty easy to work with.


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RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 - 11/1/2012 4:03 AM   
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Status: offline 		Yeah, I did a bit of thinning on the blade, but could do more. I agree, whatever those things are made of, they are not bad to work with.

But based on the throttle response with a 7x3.5, I'm pretty sure the load on the engine is not the problem.

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RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 - 11/1/2012 7:38 AM   
combatpigg



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Status: offline 		There is a test that a 2 stroke weedeater mechanic showed me years ago. It was his quick way to see if or where those engines had any crankcase leakages. In his business, quick and positive diagnosis is crucial.
He had a water tight block off plate for the exhaust port and a plastic tube that he adapted to the carb's inlet for a water tight seal. Next he dunked the engine in water and blew into the plastic tube as he slowly rotated the crankshaft. By doing this he could see instantly where air might escape. The 2nd part of the test is to simply see how long the engine stays "pumped up" after you bring the piston up to TDC.
I duplicated this test with a couple old RC engines that were "acting up" and it worked great.
Besides some sort of crankcase air leakage a new engine could have something wrong with the exhaust pressure side of the fuel delivery system, I've heard of plugged pressure taps. Even a fuel tank plumbing SNAFU can mimick "carburetor trouble".



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RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 - 12/8/2012 5:46 AM   
redriderjr326


 

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Status: offline 		Hey guys, I am new to the hobby (and this forum) and have been looking for my third plane to be. I have both an electric and nitro, love the nitro stuff. I came across the Herr lil extra and definatly wish I were around to enjoy that, but I am happy to hear this "counterfeit" is fun to fly as well and virtually the same plane. My question to you is that value hobby has the mini sportster in an electric ARF (the blue airplane). I found the yellow sister bird that is set up for nitro, but I can't find it anywhere. Value Hobby says he has it, but just needs to put it up on his website. I have been waiting a while for that now. I am wondering if the electric ARF can be converted to a nitro with out any problems. I know I would have to cut the electric motor mount out, but I am not worried about that. Mainly if the fuel tank will still fit and what not. Thanks one and all

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RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 - 12/8/2012 5:57 AM   
skaliwag



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Status: offline 		Have you called them? 630-948-0947 .. Surely they will sell you one over the phone. Email or PM me, I may have a spare.

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RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 - 12/8/2012 10:58 PM   
redriderjr326


 

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Status: offline 		I have emailed them and they just tell me to keep watching. Maybe I will give them a call Monday morning. I would be interested if you have a NIB plane. 

Still wondering if any one has converted the blue electric to a nitro?


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RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 - 12/9/2012 10:13 PM   
Max_Power



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Status: offline 		I happened to go run a ASP .12 today...this was a brand new one of the $29.95 ones from Hobby Partz I made the first few (3) runs on the stand and ended up still just at the point of a four-stroke every 3 seconds or so and pulls a APC 7x3 at 20200RPM on 5%19%castor....I'm gonna go out and run the other one I got to get free shipping on them and see if the numbers are the same..., but so far I'm happy with those numbers? I need to try like a 6.5x4 or 5 I think. They throttle well although stock setting was way off on lsn. I'm sure they will only get better with time

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RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 - 12/10/2012 12:38 AM   
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Status: offline 		Wow. I've got a newer one myself which has socket head screws instead of the slots. Maybe I should just break it in and switch out the older troublesome engine. The Enya .09 is nice, but I kind of liked the powerful climb I got with the .12.

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RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 - 12/13/2012 5:09 PM   
bullfrog



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Status: offline 		I have been flying my Lil Extra for about 5 years with a OS LA 15. It has very limited vertical, I have to dive a little in order to get enough speed for a nice loop. Im in the process of recovering the plane and I am adding counter balance tabs to the rudder and elevators not because it needs them, just out of boredom and for looks. I just purchased a NIB Lil extra on eBay and have a NIB MDS .18 to try on it. Any of you all have any experience/advice with these engines, I have heard many mixed reviews.


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RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 - 12/13/2012 5:30 PM   
Mr Cox



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Status: online 		The MDS .18 are great engines, when you use them correctly. I have some that were a little tight in the bearings, that should be fixed before the first start. These engines are also setup for 0% nitro. This is a very important thing, add at least one head shim to run with <10% Nitro. The engines are well made, true ABC, twin BB and there is even an o-ring to seal below the carb retaining drawbar. The stock muffler is quiete one, while being a little heavy it doesn't actually hinder the engine very much. Here is a little movie on one of mine, beats the Magnum .15XLS on a 7x5 prop;



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RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 - 12/13/2012 8:02 PM   
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Status: offline 		Bullfrog, something must be wrong with your LA 15. Either that or your L Extra somehow came out very heavy. Mine will loop from level flight with an Enya 09, and the LA 15 should be a much stronger engine. With the ASP 12 you would never say the plane has very limited vertical.

Do you know the weight ready to fly? What prop and what rpm on that prop? This doesn't add up. I would try to find the cause of the problem before putting a bigger, and heavier, engine on it.

Jim

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RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 - 12/13/2012 9:35 PM   
bullfrog



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Status: offline 		Mr. Cox, thank you for the information. What size head gasket would you use (mm or .00? in) to run 10% with? Does the Magnum muffler fit on the .18? Maybe a little louder but lighter at that.

Buzzard bait. My LA 15 has run great since day one, very reliable. I am running a MA 8x4. I do not have an RPM reading, I have always tuned by ear and I do not have a weight. Its completely stock with no additions of weight, HS-55 servos, 350 Milli battery. I will keep the LA 15 on my original and maybe try the MDS .18 or I have another NIB LA 15 for the new one. When I get the original built again and covered I will weight it now that I have other peoples model weights to compare too!


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RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 - 12/13/2012 10:42 PM   
aspeed


 

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Status: offline 		I'd try an 8-3 or 7-5 before changing the motor.  The LA .15 is pretty strong really. but the little guys need to rev a little.  A 7-4 may be a bit small, and a 7-6 and 8-4 are a lot of load.

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RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 - 12/14/2012 8:43 AM   
Mr Cox



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Status: online 		The MDS has the same muffler bolt spacing as most other .15 engines. The Magnum/SC .15 muffler fits and these don't have the internal baffle that the OS LA has. The shim thickness I use is about .12 mm, a little thicker than what you get from a soda can. The MDS engines do need a bit of running in before they settle in and give a good performance. Once run in you can fiddle with shims and nitro level but it is important to start off with a lower compression setting and then push the performance once they are run in properly, that's my approach on most engines anyway.



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RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 - 12/14/2012 2:00 PM   
aspeed


 

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Status: offline 		I machined off the muffler baffle on an LA .15 and it didn't make a difference on the rpm.  I think it was slower actually for the one size of prop that I used.  I tried a few normal mods on the LA .15, like a bigger carb, opened muffler and none really helped much other than removing a head shim.

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RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 - 12/14/2012 4:25 PM   
Mr Cox



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Status: online 		The OS LA series are pretty well tamed from what I have heard. So they are not that sensitive to muffler backpressure, and the intake/breathing might well be limited by the crank bore and the two transfer channels. If it doesn't breath well internally then it doesn't matter what you do on the outside (sort of).

What does a .15LA typically do on a 8x4 prop (in terms of rpm)?

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RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 - 12/14/2012 9:04 PM   
aspeed


 

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Status: offline 		I never checked the 8-4, but with an 8-3 MA one of mine got 17,500, and the 7-5 which I used to compare all the other motors it was 16,200, and 17,800 with no muffler or head shim.  That compared well to other motors I checked.  I don't really want to go outside now to check the 8-4, it is pretty nice out but still cold.  I hate winter.

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RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 - 12/14/2012 9:55 PM   
Mr Cox



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Status: online 		No need to run it now, I was just curios. We have -15°C here now, and some sun on the horizon around lunchtime on a clear day.

The ASP .15XLS makes about 15000rpm on an 8x4, the Fox .15 BB RC make a little less (14400) while the Norvel .15 is pretty outstanding at 15800rpm on the same prop and fuel (and a lower weight as well).

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