RE: RE: Wing area on 24% CA Extra  
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RE: RE: Wing area on 24% CA Extra - 2/11/2004 7:51:08 AM   
Ralf Ebbrecht



Posts: 45
Joined: 2/9/2004
From: Dortmund, GERMANY
Status: offline 		Hello Daniel.
If the Extra needs a lot of weight in the nose, what do you think about the 35ccm MVVS? It is a little bit heavier and it is more power. With this engine the Extra should can do 3D. The engine has a weight of 1624g, thats over 500g more than the 1.60. Is that not to much? I´ve looked for a carbon fiber tube here in Germany, but I haven`t found one. To order one from USA is a expensive way because of the high shipping costs. But here is dealer, who has glas fiber tubes, which are the best tubes I know. I will ask him of the weight of one of his tubes. What is the weight of the carbon fiber tube, that you use? Please in grams!

Best Regards

Ralf

(in reply to Scoubidou)
       Post #: 151

RE: RE: Wing area on 24% CA Extra - 2/11/2004 3:29:03 PM   
Scoubidou



Posts: 1572
Joined: 7/7/2003
From: Boisbriand, QC, CANADA
Status: offline 		Ralf, first of all, i would recommend you to read carefully this thread from the beginning. There are huge technical informations from many experience pilots and builders.

If your goal is doing 3D stuff, go with a OS160FX or Saito180 and MK bellcrank. If you go with a 30CC gasser, the wing loading will be too heavy. Adding 500g gives you a plane around 13lbs, 208oz/6.18sqft=33oz oz/sqft. (25 to 28oz/sqft is good). The wing area is small on that plane compare to 72'' span Katana or Funtana.
Yes you will have plenty vertical, but you will have to land at mid throttle and the wing will stall if you try to land too slow!!
I would try to fit a tune pipe on the MVVS1.6 before going with a bigger motor and in the worst case, i thing the ZDZ40 is lighter than MVVS30CC. Tipover tried a modified 26CC Zenoah also...

tune pipe fitting: http://www.krumscheid-metallwaren.de/html/fittings.html

Keep it light and you'll enjoy, that rule does apply to any kind of plane!

Wing tube weight from my previous post:

1)CF wing tube: PBG103T, PBG CARBON FIBER TUBE 7/8"x30" .035" WALL
55g for 30''. I keep the supplied black socket cause its lighter than http://www.precisionaerocomposite.com/ . It fits perfectly together.
weigh saving=89g. l

Daniel

(in reply to Ralf Ebbrecht)
       Post #: 152

RE: RE: Wing area on 24% CA Extra - 2/11/2004 5:50:59 PM   
Scoubidou



Posts: 1572
Joined: 7/7/2003
From: Boisbriand, QC, CANADA
Status: offline 		Ralf, i was surfing on the net when i saw this link for CF tube in your continent:
http://www.pbgcomposites.com/products/carbon_tubes/CarbonTubes.htm

(in reply to Scoubidou)
       Post #: 153

RE: RE: RE: Wing area on 24% CA Extra - 2/11/2004 6:47:27 PM   
Ralf Ebbrecht



Posts: 45
Joined: 2/9/2004
From: Dortmund, GERMANY
Status: offline 		Hello Daniel.
Of course, I`ve read this threat completely. I have seen it. But my english is not the best, so that I don`t understand it at all. I thought, if I can build much lighter, so I can get a little bit heavier with the engine. But to take a pipe is another possibility. I know the krumscheid pipes, they come from germany, but there is another company MTW Metalltechnik Weiershäuser (it's the brother from the man, who makes the funtana), who makes real good pipes too. But they are cheaper than the krumscheid. I think then I will take the 1.60 MVVS with a MTW Pipe. Thank you very much for your help.

(in reply to Scoubidou)
       Post #: 154

RE: RE: RE: Wing area on 24% CA Extra - 2/11/2004 7:43:42 PM   
Scoubidou



Posts: 1572
Joined: 7/7/2003
From: Boisbriand, QC, CANADA
Status: offline 		I know what you feel, i speak french, and RCU is english...
Do you know that website that translate English to German :
http://babelfish.altavista.com/
It's not perfect but it helps
Daniel

(in reply to Ralf Ebbrecht)
       Post #: 155

RE: RE: RE: Wing area on 24% CA Extra - 2/12/2004 6:51:44 AM   
Ralf Ebbrecht



Posts: 45
Joined: 2/9/2004
From: Dortmund, GERMANY
Status: offline 		Hello Daniel.
Thank you for the link. You are right, it is not perfect, but it helps! If you don`t know the meaning of a word, it really can help. I haven`t known, that you are speaking french in Canada. I thought that the language were english there.

Ralf

(in reply to Scoubidou)
       Post #: 156

RE: RE: RE: Wing area on 24% CA Extra - 2/12/2004 12:49:06 PM   
Scoubidou



Posts: 1572
Joined: 7/7/2003
From: Boisbriand, QC, CANADA
Status: offline 		Anurag and Kevin
Do you remember how many degres of deplacement are required on the rudder to perform a knife edge at half throttle with the CG to the wing tube? I installed the hinges yesterday and i don't have to much travel. ...30 to 40 degres on the rudder, elevator, ailerons. Is it enough?

I used 'Probond' polyurethane glue from hardware store. It works very well and the glue expends to fulfill the hinge's hole.

I am going to post my Extra 300 ready to fly next week. This weekend is ''Saint-valentine'' and i must put my project on a hold ...
Daniel

(in reply to Ralf Ebbrecht)
       Post #: 157

RE: RE: RE: Wing area on 24% CA Extra - 2/12/2004 4:44:50 PM   
Tipover


 

Posts: 433
Joined: 6/24/2002
From: Outoftown, WI, USA
Status: offline 		I think 20-25 degrees will hold KE with half power. Depends on prop pitch/airspeed. In spite of its large rudder, this plane does not prevail at slow/ high alpha KE. Most of its fuse side area is behind the cg point. Flys like a pattern plane in KE. Should be great for IMAC stuff.

Kevin

(in reply to Scoubidou)
       Post #: 158

RE: RE: RE: Wing area on 24% CA Extra - 2/12/2004 8:52:47 PM   
cmassa



Posts: 162
Joined: 1/8/2002
From: Chico, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I'm about halfway through construction on my 24%. I have a Moki 1.8 that I was planning to put on it. Has anyone tried this combination yet? Do you think this will work well?

Chris


_____________________________

Chris Massa
Butte R/C Club

(in reply to Tipover)
       Post #: 159

RE: RE: RE: Wing area on 24% CA Extra - 2/12/2004 10:36:45 PM   
Tipover


 

Posts: 433
Joined: 6/24/2002
From: Outoftown, WI, USA
Status: offline 		I think the 180 will work good, problem could be clearing the correct prop for that engi ne. I will fly my 24% with my Moki 135 this summer, may need to add nose weight. I've had the 135 on a 11 lb plane befor, it was a rocket.

Kevin

(in reply to cmassa)
       Post #: 160

RE: RE: RE: Wing area on 24% CA Extra - 2/13/2004 12:29:24 PM   
Scoubidou



Posts: 1572
Joined: 7/7/2003
From: Boisbriand, QC, CANADA
Status: offline 		Graphtec sell a CF landing gear for the 24% Extra as a standard item now. I bought the first one a few months ago and it's 1'' taller than alumium landing gear supplied in the kit. That CF gear is little bit lighter and you can use 17'' and 18'' prop with enough clearance.
Daniel

Graptech landing gear:It is 6-1/2" wide at the fuse, 6-3/4" Axle height, 16-5/8" spread, cut 1-1/2" to 1".
weight:165g, weight saving=40ghttp://www.tntlandinggear.com/store/shop/composite_landing_gear.htm

(in reply to Tipover)
       Post #: 161

RE: RE: RE: Wing area on 24% CA Extra - 2/13/2004 3:10:13 PM   
Ragz



Posts: 1706
Joined: 12/6/2001
From: Nagpur, INDIA
Status: offline 		I had a few flights again today...I used the Menz 18x6 and the plane was so much better. Throttle response was far superior than the APC17x6 and 18x6W. Hovering was much better too due to better throttle response. Unfortunately, I damaged the plane quite badly during an ELEVATOR...it tip stalled and before I could do much it hit the ground. I will surely rebuild it.

_____________________________

Anurag

(in reply to Scoubidou)
       Post #: 162

RE: RE: RE: Wing area on 24% CA Extra - 2/16/2004 12:53:43 PM   
Scoubidou



Posts: 1572
Joined: 7/7/2003
From: Boisbriand, QC, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hi
Like you know, there is a line drawn under to wing to cut the foam for the aileron's servos.
My wing servos are installed parallel to the leading edge like proposed by the CA kit but I am little bit worried about the 'turbulence' under the wing coming to the servos caused by air restriction with that setup...

Did you install your servos parallel to the fuse to reduce the air restriction under the wing or you did it like proposed by CA? Unfortunately, my wing is already covered but i can modify it easily, with time and patience...

Daniel

(in reply to Ragz)
       Post #: 163

RE: RE: RE: Wing area on 24% CA Extra - 2/16/2004 2:11:55 PM   
Tipover


 

Posts: 433
Joined: 6/24/2002
From: Outoftown, WI, USA
Status: offline 		No problems with servo's parallel to wing, my 25% edge is that way. Technically, I think you want the long length of the servo at right angle to control surface for better rigidity in surface movement.

Kevin

(in reply to Scoubidou)
       Post #: 164

RE: RE: RE: Wing area on 24% CA Extra - 2/23/2004 2:44:29 PM   
Scoubidou



Posts: 1572
Joined: 7/7/2003
From: Boisbriand, QC, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hi guys,
Another 24% Extra 300L ready fly:

Attachments
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(in reply to Tipover)
       Post #: 165

RE: RE: RE: Wing area on 24% CA Extra - 2/23/2004 2:46:22 PM   
Scoubidou