DLE 30 dies when upright    Gallery
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: none
    Search This Thread  
 
Printable Version

All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> Gas Engines >> DLE 30 dies when upright
Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>  

Tower Hobbies Get Coupon Codes Brands  
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
DLE 30 dies when upright - 10/21/2011 11:35 PM   
DaveE61


 

Posts: 5
Score: 100
Joined: 9/22/2011
Last Login: 5/22/2013
From: boulder, CO, USA
Status: offline

I have a new rear carb DLE 30 with about ½ gal thru it.  It dies every time I fly inverted for more than a few seconds. Actually the engine is upright during this period of time. I have done the following to the engine:

  • I fly at 5,000 ft so I have adjusted the needles.  High speed is maxed and then backed off about 200 rpm.  Low needle is adjusted so I don’t get a midrange burble, but might be a bit rich
  • I have soldered a piece of copper tubing to the hole on the diaphragm cover and routed it to a pill bottle in the fuselage with a small hole in it.
  • Took apart the tank, made sure the clunk was free to move from top to bottom.
  • The plumbing from the tank to the carb is about 3” of tubing with a tee in it for filling the tank.
  • Vent goes across the top of the tank to the back and then forward and out the bottom of the plane
  • Idles very well
  • Transitions very well
  • Lawn Boy at 32/1
  • Will run forever if I stay upright most of the time.
  • Sags during the inverted portion of slow rolls
  • At 1/ 2 to 2/3 throttle with the airplane inverted, engine upright, it runs for a max of 5 seconds and quits.  I have not tried inverted flight at full throttle.

 

The engine just slows down and quits so I don’t think it is going lean as that usually speeds up before it quits.

I fly off a very small strip so engine outs are always nail biters and I prefer to not experiment a whole bunch. 

 

Sorry for the long post, but I really need some help with this one.

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

 



Hide Signatures
       Post #: 1

RE: DLE 30 dies when upright - 10/22/2011 12:56 AM   
w8ye



Posts: 36438
Score: 318
Joined: 12/11/2001
Last Login: 5/22/2013
From: Shelby, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Try richening it up some and see what happens?


_____________________________

Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
Club Saito Member #7
Original AMA #31261

Hide Signatures

(in reply to DaveE61)
       Post #: 2

RE: DLE 30 dies when upright - 10/22/2011 1:30 AM   
karolh


 

Posts: 5632
Score: 310
Joined: 5/16/2002
Last Login: 5/23/2013
From: Mandeville, JAMAICA
Status: offline 		If you are using the stock DLE plug which is known to cause running problems, replace it with an NGK CM-6 plug and quite possibly your problem will vanish. I would also suggest that you cease using Lawn Boy oil as it will carbon up your engine pretty quick especially if run rich, and instead use one of the better suited oils such as Stihl Ultra, Pennzoil, Red Line, Bel Ray or Mobil 1 to name a few, mixed at the same 32:1 ratio.

Karol

_____________________________

When inverted always remember that down is up and visa versa

Hide Signatures

(in reply to DaveE61)
       Post #: 3

RE: DLE 30 dies when upright - 10/22/2011 2:06 AM   
All Day Dan


 

Posts: 2894
Score: 151
Joined: 12/15/2002
Last Login: 5/21/2013
From: MANHATTAN BEACH, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Dave, this may sound ridiculous but I had loose parts in a muffler giving the very same symptoms. Dan.

_____________________________

Dan

Hide Signatures

(in reply to DaveE61)
       Post #: 4

RE: DLE 30 dies when upright - 10/22/2011 2:24 AM   
Truckracer


 

Posts: 2535
Score: 304
Joined: 4/3/2004
Last Login: 5/23/2013
From: Des Moines, IA, USA
Status: offline 		DaveE61, what kind of plane is it in? cowled, uncowled? Etc. Stock muffler or other?

Hide Signatures

(in reply to DaveE61)
       Post #: 5

RE: DLE 30 dies when upright - 10/22/2011 3:33 AM   
AirWizard



Posts: 1227
Score: 100
Joined: 4/23/2004
Last Login: 5/23/2013
From: Coffeyville, KS, USA
Status: offline 		I have the same problem with a DA 85 using penzoil 40 to 1 on a extra 330

_____________________________

David
____I''m having a Yak Attack_____

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Truckracer)
       Post #: 6

RE: DLE 30 dies when upright - 10/22/2011 4:08 AM   
Tired Old Man


 

Posts: 18600
Score: 662
Joined: 2/25/2002
Last Login: 1/16/2012
From: Valley Springs, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Lean the top end ending the 200 RPM rich thingie, replace the plug with NGK, ditch the diaphragm tube, verify the bottom tuning is on target, dump the Lawnboy. The engine is probably drowning.

< Message edited by Tired Old Man -- 10/22/2011 5:18 AM >

_____________________________

Never lie, and never minimize or gloss. Tell it like it is and let the pieces fall where they may. The truth always wins.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to AirWizard)
       Post #: 7

RE: DLE 30 dies when upright - 10/22/2011 4:26 AM   
jedijody



Posts: 2812
Score: 309
Joined: 3/19/2005
Last Login: 1/15/2013
From: Tacoma, WA, USA
Status: offline 		As stated above your description of mixture adjustments would leave your engine drowning rich. Fully warm up the engine, adjust the high needle for peak RPM and no richer, lean the low needle out until it looses the ability to transition from idle to full throttle, then richen just enough until transition returns, follow the rest of the above advice, except richening the mixture adjustments.

Even though it sounds as though you feel confident in your fuel system and plumbing I would urge you to revisit it. The description of the engine slowing down then speeding up just before dying is a classic symptom of running out of fuel. Make sure your clunk isn't hanging up on the bottom of the tank, make sure your clunk line is not sucking air on the inside of the tank.

If the engine dies and after landing the fuel line is full of air you know the carb is sucking nothing but air.

< Message edited by jedijody -- 10/22/2011 4:51 PM >

_____________________________

Now go outside and play

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Tired Old Man)
       Post #: 8

RE: DLE 30 dies when upright - 10/22/2011 4:28 AM   
MetallicaJunkie



Posts: 5330
Score: 243
Joined: 9/17/2006
Last Login: 5/17/2013
From: Donna, TX, USA
Status: offline 		get rid of the pill bottle and let the tube breathe inside the fuse..... i had 3 dead-sticks in a row when i did the same thing a few years ago, except i did mine in a sealed balsa box (1.5" balsa cube)

_____________________________

"Propellers are notorious for inflicting serious bodily harm while vigorously defending their space" George Aldrich

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Tired Old Man)
       Post #: 9

RE: DLE 30 dies when upright - 10/22/2011 4:59 AM   
TheRickster



Posts: 239
Score: 119
Joined: 4/29/2004
Last Login: 5/21/2013
From: Beaumont, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Get a friend to hold the plane inverted and suck out the fuel observing the fuel line for bubbles or inconsistant flow. If that checks out then the issue has to be either diaphragm venting or needle settings.. Also check all your ignition wiring to be sure thhere is no wires flopping about that might be giving you intermittant ignition voltage..

Rick

_____________________________

We do not do this to save money, we save money to do this..

Hide Signatures

(in reply to MetallicaJunkie)
       Post #: 10

RE: DLE 30 dies when upright - 10/22/2011 5:19 AM   
Tired Old Man


 

Posts: 18600
Score: 662
Joined: 2/25/2002
Last Login: 1/16/2012
From: Valley Springs, CA, USA
Status: offline 		After all that all they need to do is swallow

_____________________________

Never lie, and never minimize or gloss. Tell it like it is and let the pieces fall where they may. The truth always wins.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to TheRickster)
       Post #: 11

RE: DLE 30 dies when upright - 10/22/2011 7:57 AM   
TimBle


 

Posts: 2649
Score: 162
Joined: 4/10/2010
Last Login: 5/22/2013
From: Cape Town, SOUTH AFRICA
Status: offline 		why do people solder vent tubes over the breather hole in the carb body?

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Tired Old Man)
       Post #: 12

RE: DLE 30 dies when upright - 10/22/2011 9:26 AM   
Super08



Posts: 3543
Score: 135
Joined: 12/17/2007
Last Login: 5/22/2013
From: Fort McMurray, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		In some cowled planes it is needed to route a tube to a place where the air pressure is stable. Some cowls have problems with pressure building inside the cowl in some or all flight attitudes. Usually better ventilation of the cowl solves the problem though.

_____________________________

Quote: Hey, who put that tree there?
Ultra Sport brotherhood #125

Hide Signatures

(in reply to TimBle)
       Post #: 13

RE: DLE 30 dies when upright - 10/22/2011 9:54 AM   
TimBle


 

Posts: 2649
Score: 162
Joined: 4/10/2010
Last Login: 5/22/2013
From: Cape Town, SOUTH AFRICA
Status: offline 		yeah but the act of soldering could result in a blocked vent. Thats not good.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Super08)
       Post #: 14

RE: DLE 30 dies when upright - 10/22/2011 10:16 AM   
Super08



Posts: 3543
Score: 135
Joined: 12/17/2007
Last Login: 5/22/2013
From: Fort McMurray, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		LOL if a person solders that bad I don't think they should be soldering anything. It is pretty simple to do. Anyway the ones I have done I solder the hole and plug it on purpose. Then I drill and tap a new hole in the center of the cover and use a brass nipple with red loctite.


Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


_____________________________

Quote: Hey, who put that tree there?
Ultra Sport brotherhood #125

Hide Signatures

(in reply to TimBle)
       Post #: 15

RE: DLE 30 dies when upright - 10/22/2011 11:35 AM   
a1pcfixer



Posts: 2505
Score: 168
Joined: 8/20/2004
Last Login: 8/16/2012
From: La Porte, IN, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TimBle

why do people solder vent tubes over the breather hole in the carb body?


To stabilize the atmospheric pressure variations on that diaphragm;
http://www.prme.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=205

_____________________________

Jim L.
Learn from the mistakes of others.You won,t live long enough to make all of them yourself.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to TimBle)
       Post #: 16

RE: DLE 30 dies when upright - 10/22/2011 11:38 AM   
a1pcfixer



Posts: 2505
Score: 168
Joined: 8/20/2004
Last Login: 8/16/2012
From: La Porte, IN, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jedijody

....................Adjust the high needle for peak RPM and no richer, lean the low needle out until it looses the ability to transition from idle to full throttle, then richen just enough until transition returns...............................


You forgot step #1;

Get the engine completely/fully warmed up first,
then do your tuning!

_____________________________

Jim L.
Learn from the mistakes of others.You won,t live long enough to make all of them yourself.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to jedijody)
       Post #: 17

RE: DLE 30 dies when upright - 10/22/2011 12:42 PM   
3136


 

Posts: 537
Score: 135
Joined: 10/3/2010
Last Login: 5/21/2013
From: Victoria, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline

I had a similar problem once, I stuffed around with the mix screws, so did everyone at my club.
I was changing the engine, and prepared to throw it out when I found a plumbing problem.
That engine runs reliably now.
As Jodi said, look at the fuel line after it cuts out, if it's empty that's where to look.
Have you got tight connections on every joint?
Any chance of air being sucked in?

Also did you run the engine in the plane before you added the line to diaphram cover?



_____________________________

regards Mark

Hide Signatures

(in reply to a1pcfixer)
       Post #: 18

RE: DLE 30 dies when upright - 10/22/2011 1:44 PM   
garyr1


 

Posts: 41
Score: 100
Joined: 11/7/2008
Last Login: 1/23/2013
From: Ottawa, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Just do as JeoJody says and you'll be fine.
He's THE MAN: did a ton of development on this engine with the mfgrs, etc.
My DLE30 v2 gave me a few deadsticks too while breaking in and getting settings right.
NGK plug is a MUST. The stock DLE plug has crappy ceramics and might come apart internally causing damage, so just round-file it. Stihl oil is great.
Your breather line to the fuse is good. I had to do it on mine too because of rich flameouts on inverted and outside manoeuvers...sort of sounds like your situation.
After 2 or 3 gallons through mine, I have a super running engine....very strong! Using Xoar 19 x8 for IMAC stuff. 18x10 is faster if you do Warbirds.
Oh, and it's in a Sbach...cowled inverted setup. Pretty typical.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to 3136)
       Post #: 19

RE: DLE 30 dies when upright - 10/22/2011 4:07 PM   
TimBle


 

Posts: 2649
Score: 162
Joined: 4/10/2010
Last Login: 5/22/2013
From: Cape Town, SOUTH AFRICA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: a1pcfixer


quote:

ORIGINAL: TimBle

why do people solder vent tubes over the breather hole in the carb body?


To stabilize the atmospheric pressure variations on that diaphragm;
http://www.prme.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=205



So there's the possibility of a local high pressure or low pressure around the carb....
Strange that the people who designed the carb never thought of this

Hide Signatures

(in reply to a1pcfixer)
       Post #: 20

RE: DLE 30 dies when upright - 10/22/2011 4:15 PM   
Super08



Posts: 3543
Score: 135
Joined: 12/17/2007
Last Login: 5/22/2013
From: Fort McMurray, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		The carbs were designed for trimmers and chainsaws not airplanes and were adopted by the model airplane industry.


_____________________________

Quote: Hey, who put that tree there?
Ultra Sport brotherhood #125

Hide Signatures

(in reply to TimBle)
       Post #: 21

RE: DLE 30 dies when upright - 10/22/2011 4:16 PM   
Super08



Posts: 3543
Score: 135
Joined: 12/17/2007
Last Login: 5/22/2013
From: Fort McMurray, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		..

_____________________________

Quote: Hey, who put that tree there?
Ultra Sport brotherhood #125

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Super08)
       Post #: 22

RE: DLE 30 dies when upright - 10/22/2011 4:52 PM   
jedijody



Posts: 2812
Score: 309
Joined: 3/19/2005
Last Login: 1/15/2013
From: Tacoma, WA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TimBle

yeah but the act of soldering could result in a blocked vent. Thats not good.


You must be joking, right?

_____________________________

Now go outside and play

Hide Signatures

(in reply to TimBle)
       Post #: 23

RE: DLE 30 dies when upright - 10/22/2011 4:58 PM   
Tired Old Man


 

Posts: 18600
Score: 662
Joined: 2/25/2002
Last Login: 1/16/2012
From: Valley Springs, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Doug,

It gets even better. Most of the engines being sold for RC were never designed, at least in the original design before hijacking, to use a two needle carb. The original concept had them equipped with a single needle carb intended to meter fuel effectively at two speeds. High idle and wide open throttle. That intention was cast aside when the engines were converted to a model airplane function. Most of the small engines are running far richer than the original designed use intended for them.

On to the vent tube thing. Because SOME planes require a balancing act to be performed does not in any way imply all planes need it. In truth only a very few planes experience the pressure imbalance. Unfortunately a lot of people have a tendency perform "just in case" work and fiddle with their diaphragm covers. In doing so they quite often alter the self compensating functionality of the diaphragm and create exactly the problem they were trying to prevent. A vent tube can cause as many, or more, problems than it was intended to cure.

As I mentioned in another thread, the cause of a great many engine issues is people trying to fix something that wasn't broken. Unfortunately most of those involved in that activity are not cognizant, or qualified to do what they are doing and don't have the knowledge necessary to reason through their actions. But somewhere, someplace, they read how one person did such and such, or was told by some lifetime glow flyer at a field that such and such would cure ailments they didn't know they did or didn't have. There's at least two examples of that in this thread alone.

Of all the planes I've owned and worked with, I've only come across two that needed a vent tube. All the others would have run MUCH worse with one. If people understood anything at all about their carbs, they would know that stabilizing the air pressure at the diaphragm defeats the intended design function of altitude compensation. One other thing, if they have a rear carb engine it would be damned difficult for it to be experiencing any kind of pressure imbalance issues unless they had added a vent tube. That is called shootng yourself in the foot. Duh!

< Message edited by Tired Old Man -- 10/22/2011 7:19 PM >

_____________________________

Never lie, and never minimize or gloss. Tell it like it is and let the pieces fall where they may. The truth always wins.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to jedijody)
       Post #: 24

RE: DLE 30 dies when upright - 10/22/2011 6:29 PM   
av8tor1977



Posts: 5466
Score: 665
Joined: 5/4/2003
Last Login: 5/23/2013
From: Lukeville, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		I don't understand how running a static tube from the vent hole to an area of static air in the fuselage would cause a problem? (Given of course, that the fuselage isn't pressurizing....)

AV8TOR

_____________________________

If it is not SCARY, it is NO WHERE NEAR powerful enough!!

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Tired Old Man)
       Post #: 25

Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>  
All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel &amp; Mfg Support Forums >> Gas Engines >> DLE 30 dies when upright
Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>  




Jump to:


 
Google 



Search | Marketplace | Event Calendar | Local Clubs | Magazine | Product Ratings | New Products | Discussion Forums

Photo Gallery | Instructor Search | Field|Track|Marina Search

Advertisers | Hobby Vendor Resources | Rate Manufacturers | Sign In/Sign Up

SITE MAP!   : :   FORUM RULES

RC Universe is a service of Internet Brands, Inc. Copyright © 2001-2013.

Charities we support that also need your help
Yorkie Rescue | Humane Society | ASPCA | Crohn's-Colitis America


2.406RCU1