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RE: BVM 80 inch F-86 Build - 12/11/2011 6:09 PM   
k_sonn



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ORIGINAL: t_burley
bring that heap out here next year Kirk for sure for BITW!

Hey Todd, that's the plan.  I'll have the F-86 and a couple of other large Schubeler HST powered EDFs.  Are you going to work the flight line again in 2012? 

Kirk

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RE: BVM 80 inch F-86 Build - 12/11/2011 9:34 PM   
t_burley


 

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Status: offline 		thats the plan Kirk for Mike, Rick and I to run it again if Joe
still wants us

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RE: BVM 80 inch F-86 Build - 12/15/2011 6:28 PM   
k_sonn



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Status: offline 		Small update.  I've been pretty busy with work so things have slowed a bit on the build.

The horizontal stabs were prepared by sanding the trailing edge to the scribed line.  The hinge slots were opened using a dremel and a small diamond tipped cutter.  The hinge slots were filled with hysol and the hinges were inserted.  The proper depth of the hinges set via the instructions by using pieces of mixing sticks.  Getting the hinges in the elevators is up next.

Kirk

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RE: BVM 80 inch F-86 Build - 12/15/2011 7:14 PM   
smchale



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Status: offline 		Looks good Kirk. is there a tube in the elevators that guide the wire through this blade hinge points?

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RE: BVM 80 inch F-86 Build - 12/15/2011 8:16 PM   
Greg Wright


 

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Status: offline 		Hi sean,
Yes there will be pieces of nyrod glued into the balsa leading edge that kirk will be putting on in the next part of the build. There will be a leading edge with a groove cut down the center that you glue the inner nyrod into and then you fit the hinges and wire thru the two sets of hinges in each section of the leading edge where a hinge is. I'm only answering this because i have built one and it still needs to be finished.

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RE: BVM 80 inch F-86 Build - 12/15/2011 10:59 PM   
k_sonn



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Status: offline 		Sean,

Here's a photo of the elevator leading edge described by Greg.  Hope to get to this part sometime this weekend.  Work is going through the big "before the holiday" push before people start checking out so my build time has been limited, at least until the begining of the new year.

Kirk

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RE: BVM 80 inch F-86 Build - 12/17/2011 4:26 AM   
DUCMOZ


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Kirk , you know that i am very picky when it comes to building planes. But I have to say that I was impressed with what I saw yesterday. It is looking awsome.

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RE: BVM 80 inch F-86 Build - 12/17/2011 6:20 PM   
k_sonn



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Status: offline 		Thanks.  It was great having lunch with you and Bill.  And no, the F-86 isn't for sale

Kirk

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RE: BVM 80 inch F-86 Build - 12/19/2011 3:56 AM   
k_sonn



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Status: offline 		Well, I made a mistake when I glued the hinges for the stabs.  I followed the directions for glueing the hinges for the elevators, which set the hinges at the wrong depth.  In order to fix it, I used a small cutting bit on the dremel.  I ran the bit down each side of the hinge and was able to cut out the hinges.  This left the slots slightly larger than before.  The kit includes some basswood blocks that slide over the hinges and are glued to the trailing edge of the stabs.  Luckily, I hadn't glued those in yet.  I filled the hinge slots with hysol and used the basswood blocks to obtain proper postion of the hinges. 

Before removing and glueing in new hinges in the horizontal stabs, the hinges were glued into the elevators.  Once the hysol had set, the hinges were glued into the horizontal stabs by attaching the elevator hinges to the horizontal stab hinges with the hinge pin and using spacers to set the depth of the hinges in the horizontal stabs. 

Photo 1: Shows the bit I used to cut out the hinges in the horizontal stabs.

Photo 2: Shows the hinges properly glued into the horizontal stabs.  I will clean up the excess glue later.

Photo 3: Shows the hinges glued into the elevators.

Photo 4:  Shows the elevators attached to the horizontal stabs with the hinge pin.

Up next will be adding the hinge pin tube and leading edge to the elevators.  This is most likely occur after the holidays.

Kirk

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RE: BVM 80 inch F-86 Build - 12/19/2011 4:28 AM   
roger.alli



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Status: offline 		Hi Kirk,

I feel your pain. Looks like you made a great recovery though.

I am currently doing the Aileron hinges on a F-100. This hinging system of BVMs takes a lot of time and patience to get correct, and for me anyway, is a real test of my skills. Takes me 2-3 evenings each surface.
Don’t wish to Hi jack your thread, but here is some pics of the wing aileron I did last night. Seems BVM uses similar system but different install techniques on these jets..

Roger


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RE: BVM 80 inch F-86 Build - 12/19/2011 5:26 PM   
k_sonn



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Status: offline 		Roger, thanks for the photos. I find it interesting to see how things are done on other planes. You are correct, BVM's techinques for hinging are time consuming but work flawlessly when completed. It seems either the techniques or the parts or improved upon with each successive kit. The hinging of the ailerons for the F-86 are the simplest yet. The hinge halves that go into the trailing edge of the wing have a flat area (blue circle in photo) that sets the depth of the hinge. There is a plywood template that is attached to the wing tip that sets where the trailing edge of the aileron goes, thereby setting the depth of the hinge halves in the ailerons. When I get back to working on the ailerons, I'll upload photos showing this.

Kirk

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RE: BVM 80 inch F-86 Build - 12/22/2011 5:47 PM   
k_sonn



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Status: offline 		The Schubeler DS-94 HST was delivered yesterday evening.  The fan has an inner diameter of 128mm and puts out 29 pounds of thrust.  I will test fly it in a Skymaster L-39. 

This is the 2nd version of the HST line and there have been some design improvements.  A new spinner, new mounting fixture, and new shape of motor cooling fins.  The cooling fins have the same curvature as the stators.  I would guess this helps reduce drag as the air gets straighten by the stators. 

Kirk

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RE: BVM 80 inch F-86 Build - 12/22/2011 10:08 PM   
Pondus


 

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Status: offline 		Think it will be enough power Kirk?

My CARF Mig-15 is of comparable size and it does well on 19lbs installed thrust, you will loose some lbs to ducting losses but you should still have maybe 25lbs installed so it should be fun! You have the big block version, with the DSM6745-700 motor then, gonna need a good set of batteries to feed it though, do you have that planned out yet? I'm glad Daniel decided to improve on these HST fans, the v1 I feel was simply too heavy compared to the performance, these 2011 updates have shed some motor weight while efficiency is up, do you know if the motor is still a 2 pole design or has this been changed?

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RE: BVM 80 inch F-86 Build - 12/23/2011 3:18 AM   
Ron101



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Status: offline 		Looking good Kirk
your going all out on this one, it's going to be a top of the line EDF...

I like the new mounts on the DS-94 HST... mine had that brace over the top which really made it hard to fit in models.

What is the weight of this unit? I still may try out the new DS-94 HST 12s setup in my hawk.... figure I can break in my F-18 fans in the Hawk and always swap out if I want to.

His design is awesome, just wish I had a better experiance with d/c high voltage

I would test whatever ESC you choose out of the model a few times to be sure there is no fire problems. It's going to be to nice a model to burn up


Have a Merry Christmas
later
Ron

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RE: BVM 80 inch F-86 Build - 12/23/2011 7:03 PM   
Pondus


 

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Status: offline 		Kirk must have the version with the longest motor, so his should weigh 1330gram, as you may know both the DS-77-HST and the DS-94-HST is now available with three different motor choices, depending on how much power you want out of it. The lighest option is now just 1080gram, it's a viable option to many Dynamax based 10-12S setups. There's a flyer available for download under the news section at the Schuebeler website with all the info on these new fan units.

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RE: BVM 80 inch F-86 Build - 12/27/2011 7:01 PM   
k_sonn



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ORIGINAL: Pondus

Think it will be enough power Kirk?

My CARF Mig-15 is of comparable size and it does well on 19lbs installed thrust, you will loose some lbs to ducting losses but you should still have maybe 25lbs installed so it should be fun! You have the big block version, with the DSM6745-700 motor then, gonna need a good set of batteries to feed it though, do you have that planned out yet? I'm glad Daniel decided to improve on these HST fans, the v1 I feel was simply too heavy compared to the performance, these 2011 updates have shed some motor weight while efficiency is up, do you know if the motor is still a 2 pole design or has this been changed?

Plenty of power, but after taking a few measurements and talking to DS, I will install the DS-77 DSM6745-700 instead of the DS-94.  The intake area is a little too small for the DS-94.  This could be remedied by making a new nose/intake lip section or modifying the current one.  But, the real problem is the exhaust opening.  It's just too small for the DS-94 and there is no real solution to fix it.  The current intake area and exhaust area is perfect for the DS-77 and it allows for the fan to be installed in a close duct system instead of an open duct system. 

The DS-94 will go into a Skymaster L-39 which has the intake and exhaust area to accommodate the fan. 

The new motors in the v2 HST fans are 4 pole so they should be more efficient than the previous 2 pole motors although I find the v1 DS-77 HST in my Panther to be extremely efficient.  It uses 3k mAh for a 4 minute flight.

Kirk

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RE: BVM 80 inch F-86 Build - 12/27/2011 7:19 PM   
k_sonn



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ORIGINAL: Ron101

Looking good Kirk
your going all out on this one, it's going to be a top of the line EDF...

I like the new mounts on the DS-94 HST... mine had that brace over the top which really made it hard to fit in models.

What is the weight of this unit? I still may try out the new DS-94 HST 12s setup in my hawk.... figure I can break in my F-18 fans in the Hawk and always swap out if I want to.

His design is awesome, just wish I had a better experiance with d/c high voltage

I would test whatever ESC you choose out of the model a few times to be sure there is no fire problems. It's going to be to nice a model to burn up


Have a Merry Christmas
later
Ron

Thanks Ron.  I posted above that I will not be using the DS-94 in the F-86 because the exhaust area is too small and would choe the fan.  I will use the v2 DS-77 HST. 

The DS-94 DSM6745-700 weighs 1330g and the DS-77 DSM6745-700 weighs 1320g.  They both use the same motor so the 10g lighter is because the DS-77 is a little smaller.

On the DS-94 I will be using the Schulze 40.303 controller which is good for 300A.  The fan will not run anywhere near that kind of amp draw so there's plenty of overhead which will help to keep the controller cool.  Schubuler has tested the MGM Compro TTMM 25063-3 X-series controller with execellent results.  It is a Chez made controller and can handle 15 cells and 250A.  These controllers will be offered with the HST fans.  If you decide to get a HST fan, I would highly recommend getting a controller that Schubuler offers as he will stand behnd them.  I had an issue with the YGE controller that came with the DS-77 and sent it back to DS.  He had it repaired (firmware was not installed correctly) and sent it back to me.  I didn't have to deal with YGE.  Schubuler's customer service is on par with BVM's, which means it is top notch.

Kirk

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RE: BVM 80 inch F-86 Build - 1/20/2012 1:58 PM   
SteveC68


 

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Status: offline 		Any updates on this build Kirk?

This has to be my ultimate dream model. Someday I will buy one.

Steve

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RE: BVM 80 inch F-86 Build - 1/20/2012 2:01 PM   
smchale



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Any updates on this build Kirk?

This has to be my ultimate dream model. Someday I will buy one.

Steve


Ya, c'mon Kirk, put that snow shovel away and get back to the workshop!

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RE: BVM 80 inch F-86 Build - 1/20/2012 4:16 PM   
k_sonn



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Any updates on this build Kirk?

This has to be my ultimate dream model. Someday I will buy one.

Steve


Hi Steve,

Thanks for checking in.  No new progress.  We have a beta release coming up in Feb, so work is occupying most of my time.  After the release things will get back to normal and I'll be able to continue working on the F-86.

Kirk


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RE: BVM 80 inch F-86 Build - 1/20/2012 4:19 PM   
k_sonn



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ORIGINAL: smchale


quote:

ORIGINAL: SteveC68

Any updates on this build Kirk?

This has to be my ultimate dream model. Someday I will buy one.

Steve


Ya, c'mon Kirk, put that snow shovel away and get back to the workshop!

It's supposed to warm up to the mid 40's today so maybe the ice will melt and I can get out.  I'm starting to gt cabin fever

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RE: BVM 80 inch F-86 Build - 1/20/2012 4:23 PM   
YellowAircraft



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Status: offline 		Hi,

Wow, you really do some good work.

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RE: BVM 80 inch F-86 Build - 1/20/2012 5:32 PM   
k_sonn



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Hi,

Wow, you really do some good work.

Thanks,

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RE: BVM 80 inch F-86 Build - 9/23/2012 6:02 AM   
sskianpour


 

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Status: offline 		Any updates on this build Kirk?

Shaz

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RE: BVM 80 inch F-86 Build - 9/23/2012 12:27 PM   
smchale



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ORIGINAL: k_sonn

And no, the F-86 isn't for sale

Kirk


Kirk, I'm pleased I was able to talk you into changing your mind!

quote:

ORIGINAL: sskianpour

Any updates on this build Kirk?

Shaz


Shaz, I've rescued the kit from Kirk (I kid of course!) and will post in this thread when I embark on the build. Kirk did quite a bit to this already and has given me a great head start!

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