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RE: ***CUB BROTHERHOOD*** - 12/2/2011 7:45 PM   
do335a


 

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ORIGINAL: jkr_1100

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ORIGINAL: acerc

jkr 1100, it is a sig 1/4 clipped





I am very excited. I will be starting a Sig 1/4 clipped for the new year. I think I will carve a model of Hazel Sig, and do the blue and white theme. I am very excited. I have my Saito 180 ready to put in this beast. this will be a lot of fun. Scale details must be maxed out.


Years ago Sig had available for sale a latex pilot figure which was a model of Hazel. You may still find one somehwere. I've seen them on occasion at swap meets and on ebay.

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RE: ***CUB BROTHERHOOD*** - 12/3/2011 3:16 AM   
crash bandicoute


 

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Status: offline 		probably a question i already know the answer to, but covering the side of the cabin area around the door and window stuff, do you adhere it down, cut the areas out, then shrink the rest of it down? or do you shrink everything down, then cut them out like doing monkeykote? 


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RE: ***CUB BROTHERHOOD*** - 12/3/2011 6:20 AM   
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I do mine like monkeycoat. I shrink it, then dope it, If you do this it makes a cleaner cut. Make sure to put stix-it in those areas also. This way
all the pulling and stretching will already be done and you will just be adhearing it to the structer. Working with Koverall is like working with a pair of panty hose and I always did like that.

Hope this helps, R.L.
cub brother # 31

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RE: ***CUB BROTHERHOOD*** - 12/3/2011 10:48 AM   
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Status: offline 		I do the opposite, I do the door and window cutouts and adhere them down then I shring the covering. You may get some slack in the fabric if you shrink 1st then cut the window and doors out. It may not matter but that is how I do it.
Later!!
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RE: ***CUB BROTHERHOOD*** - 12/3/2011 2:55 PM   
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Status: offline 		ok all i just finished the restoration of my cub that i inheritated from father. Hope it meets with approval. Phil #89

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RE: ***CUB BROTHERHOOD*** - 12/3/2011 3:12 PM   
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RE: ***CUB BROTHERHOOD*** - 12/3/2011 3:25 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crash bandicoute

probably a question i already know the answer to, but covering the side of the cabin area around the door and window stuff, do you adhere it down, cut the areas out, then shrink the rest of it down? or do you shrink everything down, then cut them out like doing monkeykote? 


Having used Koveral with dope since about 1986 with no issues, here're a few ideas that work.

As usual, make a sketch of your parts layout on a small paper diagram to test placement before cutting to maximime your use of the fabric. Be certain that you account for grain. It runs parallel to the long direction of the Koveral. That edge is called the selvedge. You'll find that named reference with some fabrics.

On wings, your grain should run spanwise to minimize sag between ribs. You get more sag when you run long distances without intermediate support.

To apply, use either Sig StixIt or Balsarite around the edges only of the item to be covered. Iron down the Koveral. If it's something like a stab or any other item that will have an overlap for the next piece of Koveral, you first need to trim the layer you've applied before attaching the next piece. This is easy. In my case, I run a very thin band of clear nitrate dope where I want the cut. The reason is that it stiffens the Koveral, making it much easier to cut accurately. Don't worry about great accuracy in applying this band of dope. It won't matter.

When you cut the excess fabric, hold the knife - a No.1 Xacto with a SHARP No.11 blade works very well - with the cutting edge of the blade upright, that is, facing you. It works better this way as anyone accustomed to working with fabrics can tell you. The light band of thinned nitrate dope also prevents fraying of the Koveral at the edge. And you blade will last much longer this way. You will learn that there is nothing worse than trying to do a good fabric covering job with dull blades. You won't try that twice. FAbric cutting eats blades and the doped fabric is less brutal on your blades so they last much, much longer. You can still use them for cutting wood and other things once they crap out on the fabric so save them.

OK. So now the first piece of Koveral is in place. Run another band of StixIt or Balsarite over the ironed on edge. Attach the next piece with the overlap ironed down well. You'll find that this layer more or less just melts into the first layer. Very easy to minimize seams with this stuff. Don't forget your last layer of thinned nitrate dope on that overlap so that you get a nice, easy clean cut. Runt the sealing iron over the seam once more to ensure that everything is well tacked. Now shrink both sides, just to the point of removing the wrinkles. No need to try to tighten it like a drum. That part is automatic. You con't want to pull anything loose, not that it's likely to happen at this stage as the thinned nitrate dope is also acting as a glue to keep the stuff in place. It actually will soften and penetrate the StixIt or Balsarite and then adhere the whole thing as the solvents evaporate.

Once this is all done, start putting on thinned nitrate dope to fill the weave. Sand lightly for the first two coats. After that, you can sand virtually as hard as you like, even over protruding bits such as ribs and stringers with no fear of cutting through the covering. And it's the dope that acutally causes the drum tight shrinking. You will find very quickly that the more layers you apply, when the solvents are released, the Koveral tightens almost beyond belief. This also adds tremendously to the strength of your framework. Thes Koveral, doped planes are amazintly robust. No ARF will take the beating you can give them. And they won't even show a scratch. Just like the Times watches, takes a good sh** kicking and keeps on trucking.

If you do it this way, you will have no problem with window cut outs and other areas to be removed. Just wait until all the fill layers of clear dope are applied. Then cut and touch up edges with iron if required, although ususall I've found that this never happens.

Now colour coat to suit your tastes and finish off with a coat of clear following any decals or markings. If you are using dope all the way, just remember that your colour and final clear coats are to be butyrate. It is fuel proof for both glow and gas. It will adhere to nitrate. Nitrate will not go on top of butyrate. Both are inflamable. Nitrate catches fire much easier. Take a scrap of doped fabric one day and try it. Up in smoke faster than you can blink!

If you have vinyl markings and clear coat with butyrate dope, just mist on a couple of light coats first to prevent dissolving or otherwise destroying the vinyl. Then you can glop on a heavy, slick & shiny wet coat with no fear of damage.

Nest issue is a source of all the dope you'll need. Buying this stuff at the LHS at the rates they charge for a couple of ounces will not cut it with a large model. Do as the homebuilders do. Get it at your local airport or aircarft parts supply. Randolph is most likely what you'll find. Remember too that it's a good idea to use the same brand thoughout as you want to maintain compatability. Mixing brands may or may not work. I've mixed Sig and Randolph successfully in the past. Others have been a disastrous mismatch. Test first before attemtpting to apply to your model. It's too expensive and time consuming to redo a model just becasue you botched things at this stage.

One last VERY IMPORTANT point. When working with dope and StixIt or Balsarite - use in an extremely well ventilated area and also use a respirator. No ifs, ands, buts or maybes. I grew up in an age when dope was our only finishing material and we were not aware of all the harmful effects of the fumes. I was relegated to a somewhat confied area for my model construction. I've paid the price. Just thinking about the stuff hurts my breain. I cannot take any of the fumes. They knock me out. Irreparable brain damage? Undoubtedly.

Takes much loner to explain how to do it than to do it.

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RE: ***CUB BROTHERHOOD*** - 12/3/2011 10:41 PM   
cubcrasher


 

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Status: offline 		      Hey Guys,
 I just had a brain storm, a Cub Brotherhood fly-in. Next summer sometime,somewhere. You guys kick that around for a while, Rember it was a brain storm or maby a brain fart.

R,L, 
Cub Brother #31
 

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RE: ***CUB BROTHERHOOD*** - 12/3/2011 11:37 PM   
rafeeki


 

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RE: ***CUB BROTHERHOOD*** - 12/4/2011 12:25 AM   
dirtrod



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Status: offline 		hey guys,
If we could pull that together it couldnt be much cooler.
How cool if we could find a place with a runway and a pond!!!!!!
Hmmmmm,
Ty

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RE: ***CUB BROTHERHOOD*** - 12/4/2011 12:27 AM   
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Status: offline 		How bout this field http://larks.org It's big enough..

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RE: ***CUB BROTHERHOOD*** - 12/4/2011 12:29 AM   
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RE: ***CUB BROTHERHOOD*** - 12/4/2011 3:10 AM   
crash bandicoute


 

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Status: offline 		Do335a, you're insane with your directions. i feel like i should have received something like that from Sig when ordering to Koverall and stix-it. maybe you should drop a resume with them. thank you very much. there's a lot there (actually most of it) that Sig doesn't tell you. all the directions i got were to apply it to the structure, wait for it to dry, lay down the cloth, and tighten it. i think i got more direction with monkeykote. thank you. it WILL help. i won't be using the dope though, as i can't stand the fumes of the stix-it, knowing the dope is worse, volunteering at the air museum here on base to restore the planes there. i plan to use minwax Poly-C for filling the weave.

when you sand, do you use a regular sanding bar, or 000 steel whool? i used wet/dry 320 and 400 grit on my floats after glassing and priming and then the steel wool, and i sware they felt smooth as plastic afterwards. SOOOO nice to paint on.

i think i'm only going to apply a couple layers of the Poly-C and then paint, so i can kep some of the fabric showing through. thank you for the abundance of information. i'm sure others will get the bug to use it after reading how simple it is. 


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RE: ***CUB BROTHERHOOD*** - 12/4/2011 9:48 AM   
crash bandicoute


 

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Status: offline 		one other question... i just ordered the 1/5 landing gear for my cub and was thinking i want to cover and paint it like the full scale planes, but don't want it to be permanent, and was wondering what would be a good way to do this and be able to remove it later if i have to change the color for a different scheme. being metal, what will stick well to it, and come off easy later, but not come off inadvertantly?


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RE: ***CUB BROTHERHOOD*** - 12/4/2011 5:43 PM   
ARUP


 

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Status: offline 		After prepping many parts have started the construction phase of J-3 pedal plane for my neighbor's grandson. Like I said before: gotta start him off properly in the airplane game... with a Cub!!!

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RE: ***CUB BROTHERHOOD*** - 12/4/2011 6:31 PM   
acerc



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Status: offline 		A get together sound good to me.


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RE: ***CUB BROTHERHOOD*** - 12/6/2011 1:42 AM   
jkr_1100



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quote:

ORIGINAL: do335a


quote:

ORIGINAL: jkr_1100

quote:

ORIGINAL: acerc

jkr 1100, it is a sig 1/4 clipped





I am very excited. I will be starting a Sig 1/4 clipped for the new year. I think I will carve a model of Hazel Sig, and do the blue and white theme. I am very excited. I have my Saito 180 ready to put in this beast. this will be a lot of fun. Scale details must be maxed out.


Years ago Sig had available for sale a latex pilot figure which was a model of Hazel. You may still find one somehwere. I've seen them on occasion at swap meets and on ebay.



I was planning to carve her out of balsa.

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RE: ***CUB BROTHERHOOD*** - 12/7/2011 2:13 AM   
Lavell


 

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Status: offline 		Wing attachment bolts on BUSA 1/4 scale cub. The 4 bolts used to attach the wing are very easy to cross thread into the 8/32 blind nuts even when using caution to assure proper alignment. Does anyone have a suggestion to help prevent the cross threading?
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RE: ***CUB BROTHERHOOD*** - 12/7/2011 3:12 AM   
Edwin


 

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Status: offline 		Cant say that I've had that problem yet. Mine are 8-32 allen head bolts.
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RE: ***CUB BROTHERHOOD*** - 12/7/2011 2:35 PM   
CK1



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Status: offline 		ARUP ,
My grand kids would love that . Are you working from scratch or do you have plans ?
Please give us more details....


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RE: ***CUB BROTHERHOOD*** - 12/7/2011 2:54 PM   
do335a


 

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quote:

Do335a, you're insane


Crash, you could be right!!

Takes less time and is easier to do than to explain. Tried lots of ways to simplify and speed up the use of the stuff over many years. You can do fewer steps, get frayed edges or bits that come unstuck. It's just a matter of how insane you are.

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RE: ***CUB BROTHERHOOD*** - 12/7/2011 3:02 PM   
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RE: ***CUB BROTHERHOOD*** - 12/7/2011 3:11 PM   
Cub Man



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Status: offline 		Ok guys I have just updated the list.

Covering for the windows area I seal it down and cut the area out then shrink it all. Sad to say in my 18 some years of modeling I have always used iron on fabric.

Fly-in. In the spring I always hold a Cubs and Classic Fly in at the Lexington Model Airplane Club. www.lmacky.org. This is in Central KY and just minuets from the intersection of I75 and I64 Hey guys that are around the Kentucky area. Look at you calendars and let me know. Looking at the first two weekends in May for my event in Lexington.

Ok Panel time. Getting a lot of interest. I have two different versions of instruments. I’m look to have a few made by the first of the week. As soon as I get them I will post photos and have them for sale.


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RE: ***CUB BROTHERHOOD*** - 12/7/2011 4:40 PM   
Lavell


 

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Status: offline 		Edwin,
Thank you for taking time to reply. My bolts are also 8/32 allen head. I was wondering if rounding off the threaded end of the bolt, in the style of NASCAR wheel stud bolts would help. The soft metal in the blind nut contributes to the problem allowing the hard metal in the bolt act almost like a tap.
Lavell

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RE: ***CUB BROTHERHOOD*** - 12/7/2011 4:52 PM   
Edwin


 

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Status: offline 		That is what I do to my bolts. I cant see in there and the rounded ends help guide it. I start it with my fingers first, then get with it using the ball driver. Aligning the wing is important. I usually use my bigger tool box to hold the wing, when someone isnt there to help. I'm gonna build a stand to hold the wing at the right height and angle for next year.
Edwin

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