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3 questions in one - 11/3/2011 7:28 PM   
jimmyjames213



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Status: offline 		About a month ago I crashed my Mag 52 fs when I was training someone into a cornfield/swamp the engine was submerged in swamp water, I havnt had time to take it apart until today (originally I open up the back plate to let it dry out). Before the crash the engine ran very well with no problems whatsoever. When I opened it up there was (what I am guessing is) “soft carbon” everywhere. Loose carbon on the piston, very soft carbon that just wiped off on the piston/valves/head, and small flakes of carbon everywhere else in the engine (case, bearings, cam, cam bearings, ect). The case had lots of oil residue and the pushrods/valve cover was full of rust colored water. Confusing right?
The bearings do not look rusted; they are rather “gritty” however I think I will play it safe and replace them. My first question what size are cam bearings? rc-bearings has the front and main bearings but no cam bearings http://www.rc-bearings.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=65_66_76&products_id=814 are they the same size as the os surpass? http://www.rc-bearings.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=65_66_72&products_id=1200
My next question is how on earth to replace the cam bearings? Would I just use the same idea is with the main bearing, heat it up and slam the case on a piece of wood?
Ps….took the front seal off of the front bearing and it was very rusted…well there is your problem


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RE: 3 questions in one - 11/3/2011 7:38 PM   
jimmyjames213



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i have a gms.32 on a GP viper, the engine is mounted to the firewall via back plate bolts.
My last flight I landed early because my engine was acting weird…..when I landed my engine was only being held on by 1 bolt……glad I didn’t lose my engine…… (see pic)
My question is how can I mount this engine so this won’t happen? Should I just buy better screws? (rtl fasteners?) or should I just avoid putting this engine on the plane due to the smaller than normal back plate screws? (I want to say it uses m2 screws…not sure)


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RE: 3 questions in one - 11/3/2011 7:43 PM   
jimmyjames213



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Status: offline 		Finally I have an older gms .47 engine that uses .61-91 sized nut to mount the prop to the engine, this engine also needs its bearings replaced, are they the same size as the newer versions of the gms.47? (that uses the standard ¼-32 thread size?)

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RE: 3 questions in one - 11/3/2011 8:13 PM   
Campgems


 

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Status: offline 		For future reference, always pull apart and engine that has been dunked in other than water you would swim in. Even then, you want to pull the easy covers off and drain things down, the start the engine and run it rich for several minutes to dry it out. Any indication of roughness shoudl be addressed as soon as possible.

Check with Hobby People for the cam bearings. You can also check with RC bearings as the bearing size is used on a number of engines, and they will know which ones. Check out the bearings for the Mag / ASP 62 and see if they are listed for that engine, same bearings.

Don

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RE: 3 questions in one - 11/3/2011 9:41 PM   
aguisribob@msn.com


 

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From: new port rihhey, GA, USA
Status: offline 		from the picture your engine has a provision for regular "beam " mounts . get yourself an engine mount that mounts to the firewall and proceed to mount your engine be sure to recheck your cg as it might change

Bob A saito club mem. 705

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RE: 3 questions in one - 11/3/2011 10:11 PM   
fizzwater2


 

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Status: offline 		On the backplate mount issue - you may want to get the correct size screws, just a touch longer than what the originals were. Adding the extra thickness of the backplate mount reduced the engagement of the screws.

Measure one of the original screws from the bottom of the head to the tip of the screw. (the length of the threaded part). Then, put the screw through the backplate, measure what sticks out. That gives you an idea of the reduction in screw engagement in the engine.

From RTL, you can get metric hardware in various lengths. You might be able to get screws 1-2mm longer than what you have to get more thread engagement.

Folks do this all the time with Q500 engines, the backplate mount is quite common.

I also use a little bit of "hylomar" compound on the screws, helps keep them from vibrating loose, without holding them as securely as loctite. You can use loctite SPARINGLY, and don't use red loctite - only the blue. Red and you might not ever get the screws out again without stripping the heads.

Hylomar is a gel-like stuff that's thicker than loctite. You put just a bit on the screw, rub it into the threads, and let it set a while before you put the engine together. It doesn't harden like loctite, you can remove and replace the screw a time or two without having to re-apply it.

A mechanical engineer friend of mine told me about Hylomar - Rolls Royce or someone used it in aircraft engines, I think. I had a 1/2 A profile proto speed plane that my son was flying, with a TD .049 with a left-hand crankshaft in it. The darned prop kept coming loose because of the reverse rotation. He suggested hylomar on the prop screw, just to provide enough friction that it didn't vibrate loose. Worked like a champ, my son got to fly 1/2A profile proto in the NATS with that plane, we had a lot of fun.

Around here, you can get Hylomar at O'Reilly Auto parts, I think permatex or someone like that owns the stuff now. I found it in a small tube in the section where the other tubes of stuff like loctite, etc were.



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RE: 3 questions in one - 11/4/2011 2:55 AM   
jimmyjames213



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Status: offline 		the heads on the bolts literally broke off, i dont think that would be because of shorter length???? I'll buy some longer ones and cut them to length anyways. I know what you are talking about, ill try some of that stuff.

as for the engine being dunked in water, i knew i should have ran it/ ect but i just ran out of time with work and everything (a new guy wanted to fly the day before i went on a trip....it was a bad idea flying to begin with)

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RE: 3 questions in one - 11/4/2011 7:22 AM   
NM2K


 

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Status: offline 		Backplate mounting is an old trick that was used to save the weight of a conventional engine mount. The problem with backplate mounting is that you are pretty much guaranteed a broken crankcase in a crash. I'd rather use a composite engine mount that will break before the engine breaks.


Ed Cregger


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RE: 3 questions in one - 11/4/2011 9:17 PM   
jimmyjames213



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quote:

ORIGINAL: NM2K

Backplate mounting is an old trick that was used to save the weight of a conventional engine mount. The problem with backplate mounting is that you are pretty much guaranteed a broken crankcase in a crash. I'd rather use a composite engine mount that will break before the engine breaks.


Ed Cregger


never thought about....good point though i think ill just get a mount for it seeing as they dont make gms engines anymore

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RE: 3 questions in one - 11/4/2011 9:41 PM   
fizzwater2


 

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Status: offline 		Hm. Unfortunately, I've stuffed many engines into the ground with backplate mounts. The only broken crankcase I've suffered was an engine on a metal beam type mount. Of course, that crash was violent enough that it broke the metal beam mount, too...

I will admit, though - I use Jett's backplate mounts, the ones that actually replace the entire backplate of the engine with a one piece structure, made from bar stock. They're pretty tough.

Stick a TTpro 40 on that plane, come race 424 with us next year! Between Kansas City, Hillsdale KS, and Wichita, we have 6 races during the spring-fall time frame, usually two at each place. Shoot me a PM sometime if you'd like to give it a shot.



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