mvvs 1.60 ignition - sensor installation (Full Version)

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fiery -> mvvs 1.60 ignition - sensor installation (2/25/2004 9:47:18 PM)

I placed 1 washer under each side of the sensor and 1 above to isolate the sensor from direct contact with each screw head. That was explained in the manual I received from JustEngines, the supplier of my motor.

Gap seemed fine on my motor and it works, although I did not measure the gap.




Joe Kelley -> RE: RE: RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (2/25/2004 10:34:48 PM)

I am very interested in this engine. What is the best it can do with a tuned pipe and with what prop? Very nice installation scobidou!

Joe




Rudeboy -> RE: RE: RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (2/26/2004 12:27:25 PM)

Can these engines stand the torment of flexible mounting?

Will I damage my ignition cable, or prehaps loose the plug cap at some point sooner or later?
With my setup the engine swings quite a bit at idle. (at least it did with the four stroke I previously had mounted on the plane)
On glow engines I find this shaking is of no importance, but I don't know about gas engines...




Scoubidou -> RE: RE: RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (2/26/2004 6:49:40 PM)

as you can see on the picture above, i use the DUBRO-688 vibramount. That engine reduce vibrations.
I damaged the ignition cable when it was on my engine stand. The cable touched the muffler and burned the gray sheat. After that, i installed a neoprene tube (same as carb tubing) with tierap all over the ignition cable to protect it agains heat .
Daniel




Rudeboy -> RE: RE: RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (2/28/2004 1:54:54 PM)

Ok, I received my engine this week, and tried it today... here are the results:

I bought mine second hand off ebay. I don't know why the guy sold it, but it came with all the accesories you need (fuel tank, pump, fuel line, filters, 16x12 prop...). I opend it up, and I think this engine hasn't been run for more than a tank of fuel or so... it is nearly new.
The engine has a graphite coated piston, a 9.5mm carb and a Vlach EZM 1 TI ignition with twin magnet pickup, so I guess it is the latest version.

Fuel used in the test was 98RON unleaded fuel mixed with Mobil 1 synthetic two stroke racing oil in a proportion of 25:1.
Prop was a 17x8 APC.
Ignition battery was a 800 mAh 4-cell NiCd.

At first I got frustrated... I could not get this thing to fire... It did absolutely nothing!
So after a while I took out the plug to check the ignition. The ignition was fine but the plug was wet... Me being a stricktly glow kinda guy I apparently flooded it big time.
It was freezing outside so I broke out the hot air gun and heated the engine up to clear out the excess fuel faster.
With the engine heated up I could get it to fire a couple of times, but that was it... just a few burps...
I had been flipping that prop for about an hour and my shoulder started to get sore...

I figured something must have been wrong, so I took off the carb and opened it up. Everything looked pretty much OK... but then I noticed the little tab on the regulator membrane wasn't touching the needle lever (or whatever you call those things)... Now I don't know a lot about this stuff, but to me that didn't look right... The needle should be lifted off its seat and close further again when fuel is pushing against the membrane... right?
I adjusted the"needle lever" so it was level with the carb body, and bolted everything together again.

Second try:
Same thing basically... but there were slight signs of life this time, so I don't give up just yet. I still felt it had way too much fuel in the case, but I'm new to this stuff so I'm not really sure about anything.
After flipping the prop for about 30 more minutes I decided it was time to get drastic with this thing! I closed both needles completely so no more fuel could get into the engine. I flipped the prop until it finally burst into life, albeit shortly... woooohoooo :D
So now the case was cleared of all excess fuel it was time to dial the needles in.
I slowly opened them both up until the engine finally kept on running. Apparently my modification of the lever height resulted in too much fuel pressure, because I have to close the low speed needle pretty far, and keep the high speed needle futher open (in comparison to Pé Reivers recommendation of opening both needles 1.5 turns for starters)

After tinkering with the needles for about 15 minutes, all I can say is that this thing starts, idles and runs like a charm! All that elbow grease payed off somehow... perhaps I broke the engine in by hand or something like that ;)

I have 500 ml (15 or 16 oz) of fuel through the engine now and I can get it to idle for long periods (10 minutes plus) at 1750-1800 rpm... it is pretty cold outside and the engine is still set rich so it sputters a little when I open the throttle after it's been idling for so long, but it doesn't quit.
At full throttle it stays just shy of 8000 rpm with the APC 17x8. I hope this will get better when the engine gets broken in and I lower the oil content a little. For now I consider these readings satisfactory.

I really get the impression this engine will turn into a fine running piece of machinery over time. And I can't wait to get a pipe bolted to this thing.

About the pics: somehow my camera doesn't seem to like fast moving objects (like props)... the engine was idling steadily at 1800 when I shot the pics.




Scoubidou -> RE: RE: RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (2/28/2004 2:58:40 PM)

It's always a pleasure to hear that small engine fire after so many flips![:)] You have more patience than me, i used my electric starter after 20 flips!!

These little engines are often an entry level to gas engine and there is an adaptation period to understand how to run them. Specially for glow users like me[;)].
What plane are you going to use with?
Daniel




Rudeboy -> RE: RE: RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (2/28/2004 4:25:34 PM)

The engine will starts its life on my flying test bed: a Goldberg Sukhoi... after that, I don't know yet. I just bought a Giant Scale Models F4U Corsair, for which I intended to use my Saito 150... perhaps I could bolt it to that plane. OTOH, I think a four stroke would suit this plane better. In short, I have no idea.

I don't buy engines because I need them for a plane, I buy engines because I like to tinker with engines :D (expensive hobby)

I just come back from cleaning the entire fuel system of the MVVS... some kind of gelatineous matter got in there... I have absolutely no idea where that came from. My fuel canister, fuel tank and carb... they were all "infected". I used a 5 litre metal canister for the fuel, perhaps it had some laquer (rust protection) on the inside that dissolved when it came in contact with gasoline. Must be something like that, because there was a lot of that stuff everywhere... I noticed it when the tank vent appeared to be clogged when I was refueling.




Scoubidou -> RE: RE: RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (2/28/2004 4:59:48 PM)

I think the best plane for that engine is a 2m Funtana pro with the tune pipe.
http://www.probuild-uk.co.uk/products/product.php?id=618.




GBR2 -> Crimped tube (2/28/2004 5:42:55 PM)

What exactly is the crimped brass tube on the Walbro carb for? Should it be completely blocked? Mine appears to be but I was thinking of putting some solder there to make sure if it is suppose to be completely pinched off.




Rudeboy -> RE: Crimped tube (2/28/2004 5:48:59 PM)

I was wondering about that too...

Since they (MVVS) pinched it shut like that, I suppose it's meant to be completely closed. I put some tin solder on it to shut it completely off.

That tube appears to end up under the regulator membrane, where the fuel pressure is, so if it is not completely closed fuel can leak from there.




fiery -> RE: Crimped tube (2/29/2004 4:00:40 AM)

The useless crimped brass tube hanging off the Carb?

I have been told that it is used for the primer bulb when these carbs are used in weed-eaters and similar. Yes, by all means solder over the end of the crimp. The crimp in mine had a leak ... I posted about that a while ago. I had to solder over it to stop air leaks through the crimp preventing fuel from being pumped through.

The wing strakes and lettering on the Creek Sukhoi SU 31 were finished during the week. That was the last thing that had to be done .
Other than that she's ready to take to the air.

The plane doesn't look too bad! Today was to be the big day.

I tried to run the engine this morning but I am having ignition battery circuit problems. I will change the ignition battery pack and switch (both were new on this plane) and hopefully I will be able to fly it next week-end (weather permitting!).

So far, only problems have been a minor carb problem (air leak through the crimp on the cut off brass tube) and this week-end what is either a battery with a dry solder joint / crimp joint somewhere, or a dodgy switch. When it ran, it ran sweetly and was pleasantly smooth.

I will remove both and replace for peice of mind. This is going to be one aircraft where a deadstick in initial flights is not an option!

Scoub, I have taken 3 photo's and will try to down load soon.




R/C Foolish -> RE: Crimped tube (2/29/2004 8:38:18 AM)

Got my 1.6 today.

How have you guy's hooked up throttle and choke? Do you have to you bellcrank? Do you take of tension springs?

John




Hans Meij -> RE: Crimped tube (2/29/2004 1:32:07 PM)

[img]http://home.hetnet.nl/~meijhmb/models/images/biglift/motor1_400x300.jpg[/img]

Groeten,
Hans

[img]http://home.hetnet.nl/~meijhmb/images/pittsfms8050.gif[/img]
Hans Meij / Modelvliegen




David_Moen -> RE: RE: RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (2/29/2004 3:58:48 PM)

Rudeboy,

Your engine is running really well. Your readings of 8000 rpm with the exhaust you are using are very good. The MVVS can looks to be more effective than a Pitts style exhaust. I think that a common failing of Pitts exhausts is a flat surface directlly in front of the exhaust port reflecting pressure waves right back at the port. A bit more cannister volume and some additional disctance between the port and the interior surfaces of the exhaust system seem to work wonders. I have a friend welding up a prototype exhaust using a stainless, tubular header section and an aluminum can that will fit inside a cowl like a Pitts. We are going to try this out on a 58. If it works we may make some up for the 26 and 35 cc engines.




Rudeboy -> RE: RE: RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (2/29/2004 6:04:23 PM)

Well, I was surprised too... it's not too noisy, so it doesn't sound like it's going fast.
And I read all sorts of things in this thread, so I really didn't know what to expect.

I ran it some more today, because I adjusted the needle lever height again for a little less fuel pressure and it actully went past 8000rpm peak, but I adjusted it 1/8 turn rich, so it fell slightly below 8000 again. So I guess it's breaking in...
On the other hand, 8000 rpm on a 17x8 APC is still pretty moderate for an engine this size. That's about the same as my Saito 150 on a bad day ;)
But nothing few litres of fuel, a tuned pipe and a 12mm carb won't cure I suppose.

What really surpises me is the idle. I can get it to tick over very low (1600 rpm sustained), but if I go very low it sputters a little when I throttle up again. It's freezing here, so could that be because of the cold weather? Or am I expecting too much too soon?

I like Hans Meij's throttle setup... I had something similar in mind to increase the arm length for better throttle control.

The current MVVS can exhaust is still minimal in size for an engine like this IMO... As a volume guideline for homemade 2-stroke mufflers I have always tried to use 20 times the engines' displacement... that seems to work. This one appears to be doing it's job too though.

The next mod will be the choke valve. The spring return is useless in a plane. Someone mentioned filing flats on the shaft and putting a little spring and steel ball in the carb... I will try that out. The way it is right now is down right dangerous.
Or I might try to make the choke servo operated. I haven't really looked into it.




R/C Foolish -> RE: Crimped tube (2/29/2004 8:29:43 PM)

Hans,

I like that set up for the throttle. Do you have a picture of the choke. I took of the spring and black piece. I put a modified steering arm on. With a little tension it might work manually.

John




Hans Meij -> RE: Crimped tube (2/29/2004 9:00:14 PM)

@John,
I have not linked the choke. The engine is not in a cowl so I can close it manually (thumb).
I turn the prop a few times and use the electric (Sullivan) starter.

For other pictures browse my site (under - modellen - Big-Lift)

Groeten,
Hans

[img]http://home.hetnet.nl/~meijhmb/images/pittsfms8050.gif[/img]
Hans Meij / Modelvliegen




Rudeboy -> RE: Crimped tube (2/29/2004 9:35:18 PM)

Hans,

Is it possible to rivet the MVVS pipe to prevent loose baffles?
Or do you think it pays off in the long run to go directly to Krumscheid quality...




Hans Meij -> RE: Crimped tube (2/29/2004 10:09:53 PM)

I bought the MVVS pipe an the 'internals' were loose. Never used it therefore and used the krumscheid.
However by denting the 'tube' at the end I expect that the internal unit can be fixed again.




DualdudE -> RE: RE: RE: RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (3/1/2004 10:42:52 AM)

Would this engine work on a Sig Fourstar 1.20? Or would that be bigtime overkill? :)




MalteS -> RE: RE: RE: RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (3/4/2004 10:30:06 AM)

Concerning the Choke there is a nice solution without any servos that im going to use:
On the choke side of the carbunator there is a rocker arm below the choke which is connected to the throttle. Just put a screw (2mm) through that lever. Its necessary to use a cable for connecting the gas servo with the throttle. The screw will link the choke and throttle. Closing the choke will keep the throttle in a 75% position which should not harm as the choke is closed. Opening the choke is archived by the gas servo.
There are a few pictures in this german forum which show quite nicely what i mean
http://www.rclineforum.de/forum/thread.php?threadid=47497&sid=31dcd65b69c009427418fb1fea08a01e&threadview=0&hilight=choke%20mvvs&hilightuser=0&page=2

The only thing that you need to observe is that the choke and throttle are locked twice. First in a closed choke position where the engine should not continue running at all or run at low speeds and a throttle and choke 60% open position where the engine will spin quite rapidly. Since I haven't run mine yet (no real experience with that solution) be sure that there is somebody holding the plane.

malte




Aresti-RCU -> RE: RE: RE: RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (3/4/2004 12:51:14 PM)

Anybody knows what is the size of the header/muffler screws? Are these metric screws?




Rudeboy -> RE: RE: RE: RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (3/4/2004 12:52:33 PM)

Yes, they are M4.




GeraldO -> RE: RE: RE: RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (3/5/2004 4:37:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DualdudE

Would this engine work on a Sig Fourstar 1.20? Or would that be bigtime overkill? :)
I think it is a very nice match to the 4star 120. I have one with this engine and it flies well and is just a little overpowered. Just be sure to build it sturdy. I covered mine with Sig Koverall fabric and dope for strength. I also used the tailbrace wires (but mine are made from Kevlar cord for vibration resistance)




DualdudE -> RE: RE: RE: RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (3/6/2004 12:45:58 AM)

Sounds great to me :D

Lovely plane...damn shame that i didn't find a supplier here in the netherlands yet. Only the .40 and .60 available so far :(




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