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    • All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> Gas Engines >> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser
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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/24/2003 9:05 AM   
    PlaneKrazee



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    Status: offline     		Sounds like the 17X8 would be the perfect prop for a combination of thrust and speed for average flying.

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/24/2003 1:31 PM   
    kenair


     

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    Status: offline     		I agree, 17x8 is a good point for starting at, once the engine breaks in and depending upon the plane and your style of flying, a change to a different prop may be in order.

    If we get some weather, up here in the frozen tundra, I hope to try a Top Flite PP 17.5x8 (trimmed down 18x8) in the Laser 200.

    A buddy got the Pacific Aero Models 1/4 Laser 200 arf, nice plane, he bought the 1.6 to put in it, will be a nice combo.
    --ken

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/25/2003 6:36 AM   
    Patriot



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    Status: offline     		OK, here's one for you gents.

    Everyone pretty much agrees that using PCM is generally a better idea than FM radios with a gas engine. But not knowing too much about radios, my question is simple. WHY? And why in tarnations shouldn't I use an FM radio, as they are much cheaper.
    Lots of guys say they use FM with no problems. Having to use a more expensive PCM radio makes me wonder if the cost increase is worth it, even though gas is cheaper to run.

    Patriot

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/25/2003 9:17 AM   
    Patriot



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    Status: offline     		Alright, I have yet another question about this seemingly kick-tail engine.

    Does anyone have full dimensions of the mvvs 1.60 gas engine?

    ie. centerline to top of plug, length, length from prop hub to plug etc.

    Just wish I had a drawing of it with all dimensions, so I know whether or not this thing will fit in the cowl of my Balsa USA Citabria Pro without having to cut out a huge hole to make it fit. I know I need vents, but that is not a problem. I just don't like the an engine sticking out the side of the airplane, BLEH!!!

    I plan to mount it inverted, with a Bisson inverted muffler.

    Patriot.

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/25/2003 1:03 PM   
    kenair


     

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    Status: offline     		IMHO this is NOT an butt kicking engine. The MVVS 1.6 is a sweet smooth running gas engine that produces standard power for it's displacment of 1.6 cu. in or 26cc and will turn into a free engine in two years buy running gas instead of glow ( fuel cost savings)

    If you are looking for max power from a 1.6 size buy the MVVS 1.6 glow version or the OS 1.6, but if your are looking for:

    a) fuel you can buy at your corner gas station
    b) no slime to wipe off
    c) no flame outs
    d) a pumped carb
    e) a gas engine that has a glow size type proportions

    then the MVVS 1.6 may fit your bill.

    Dimensions:
    Lenght :backplate to frot of prop hub 4.5"
    height lc. of mounting lug to top of head 4" plug the plub cap heightof an 1" or so
    see photos at http://www.sportrc.com/smallgassers.html#Lanier%201/4%20scale%20Laser%20200%20&%20RCS%201.4

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/25/2003 8:15 PM   
    ole.steen


     

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    Status: offline     		Patriot!

    For MVVS dimensions see http://www.justengines.unseen.org/mvvsdims.htm

    Ole

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/25/2003 8:35 PM   
    pe reivers



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    Status: offline     		For dimensions, see my pages mvvs-nl.com.

    To Kenair:
    I have got to get this off my chest.
    For a gas engine, the 1.60 is very powerfull, and probably best in class. The same design as glow engine just delivers even more power, which is quite natural due to the cooler running of methanol engines and the larger amount of usable work generated for the same amount of oxigen when running methanol. (it uses only 10% oil as well)
    To call it a sweet running engine, whilst true for the mark one engines, is the understament of the year for the 2003 production units, because the 1.60 easily beats the Zenoah 38. It is about the only 1.60 gas engine suitable for satisfactory Imac Aerobatics.

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/25/2003 10:16 PM   
    Patriot



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    Status: offline     		Preivers, you are right. I want it for some good aerobatics, but not for competition. Citabria Pro isn't really the best for that, but sure is fun to fly. I agree that glow is in fact more powerful, but I want the gas for efficiency, and cleaner operation. Plus I like the idea of not needing a glow starter, and less flame outs because of it's ignition system, ie more reliability.

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/25/2003 10:29 PM   
    Patriot



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    Status: offline     		Thanks for the DIMS, now I just have to convert to inches. LOL Those brits, why can't they stick with the English system? They started it. LOL

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/25/2003 10:49 PM   
    kenair


     

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    quote:

    preivers


    Do you mean G23 or G38?

    I have the new red head 1.6, my buddy has the newer g23 stock ignition, we ground ran the same prop, we trun the smae rpm on the same prop, and a G38 will out turn a MVVS 1.6 by a bigger margin.

    What IMAC planes are your currently flying your 1.6 in?

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/25/2003 11:43 PM   
    Scoubidou



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    Status: offline     		I plan to put the MVVS1.6 in CA Extra 300L, 72'', 11lbs to fly IMAC. In construction now... I hope to be at 10-1/2lbs with some modifications for optimum flying performance with almost unlimited vertical. At, 12lbs, it will be to heavy for IMAC.
    Scou

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/26/2003 12:53 AM   
    JimRoss



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    Status: offline     		You mentioned running the 1.60 on Methanol.............
    Is it better to run it on methanol or gasoline?
    Does the oil mixture change for Methanol versus Gasoline?
    Any idea what the cost of methanol is?

    I'm just chuck full of questions........


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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/26/2003 12:58 AM   
    JimRoss



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    Status: offline     		And another thing!!!!

    Why does the 1.6 come with a small carbueretor when everyone knows that its' performance will improve drastically witha larger carb?????????
    Why don't they just put the big carb on it and be done?


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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/26/2003 1:03 AM   
    Scoubidou



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    Status: offline     		Hello JimRoss,
    Tell me your Dentist's name, your are look so nice, little big but clean!
    Scou

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/26/2003 1:06 AM   
    JimRoss



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    Status: offline     		Thanks for the compliment, I think.
    That was done by a member of RCU who decided I needed a BIG smile. So, I kept it like that.


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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/26/2003 1:27 AM   
    kenair


     

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    Status: offline     		I should clarify my opinion of the mvvs 1.6, I think it is a great little engine, I have two and plan to buy one or two more and what engine to use depends on your application.

    For my 72" Spitfire, weight and slimness is an important consideration so the mvvs 1.6 is a good option, for a Dehavilland Beaver a used G23 will work just fine.

    A 11 pound Extra will fly nice, a buddy just flew thte Great Planes PW Extra 300S with a Brison 3.2, now that is unlimited, the Brison 3.2 is double the size of the MVVS 1.6 for a model that is slaightly larger that a 27% Extra.

    IMHO the only gas engine that I have seen that really honk for their displacment are the BME's, the Brison, 3w, ZDZ are all strong performers.

    Putting a large carburator is not a solution for their is ony so much volume in the cylinder.

    Methanol is glow fuel, I once had a Webra Bully 35cc gas engine, on gasoline it would swing a 18x10 prop at 7000 rpm and used a 16 oz gas tank and would run for 20 minutes.
    Later on I changed the Walbro carb on the Bully to a OS 7D carb and used a glow plug insert, I now turned the same 18x10 at 8800rpm but burned a 32oz tank of glow fuel in 10 minutes.

    Glow fuel costs are not my main motive, I just hate wiping off that glow fuel slime.
    --ken

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/27/2003 7:58 PM   
    pe reivers



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    Status: offline     		MVVS would like to put a larger carb up front, in fact, an engine of that size could do with a 12mm carb instead of the smallish 9mm on the red-head.
    As it is, the carb and the bin-type exhast are the restricting factors in the engine, and for a reason!
    The reason is heat flow and cooling.
    Each amount of power generates a construction defined fixed percentage of waste heat inside the engine that must be carried away by the engine cooling system. To increase the power output without increasing the engine's cooling capacity is the road to desaster. MVVS does not want to increase the fin sizes, because: "then the engine is not pretty any more"
    The advent of the graphite coated piston allowed a larger carb, but increasing cooling capacity by using a special head or cylinder jacket also will open new doors for this engine.

    Does that answer your question?

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/28/2003 12:54 AM   
    kenair


     

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    Status: offline     		I thought I would add my info on the mVVS 1.6 stock steel can muffler mod.

    I drilled a couple of holes on the bottom of the muffler and brazed in two steel tubes. The existing outlet was cut down and then plugged with a piece of aluminum rod "JB Weld"ed in. I also filled the muffler seams with JB weld to prevent exhaust leakage from around the seams. The Laser 200 muffler has this mod and it has worked fine so far (20 flights).

    photos at http://www.sportrc.com/smallgassers.html#MVVS%20stock%20muffler%20modification


    cheers - ken k.

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/29/2003 3:16 AM   
    JimRoss



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    Status: offline     		Your answer makes lots of sense and sounds logical, however, if this is the case why are there not tons of burned up engines around? From what I can tell lots of people are putting larger bore carbs and mufflers on their engines raising the power output and like you say, also raising the heat load. I understand what you are saying but the numbers just don't add up. If MVVS is that concerned about heat load in the engines, why are people making the modifications?


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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/29/2003 7:22 AM   
    Antique



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    Status: offline     		Larger bore carbs do not automatically make the engines run better....A 3/8 bore carb on a G26 runs just as well as a 1/2 inch bore...
    All the small Walbro carbs are the same physical size, so if MVVS wanted to put a larger bore carb on it they could, it's a bolt on replacement..
    I have tried many larger carbs over the years, none worked any better than the original...Some of the weedeaters may be an exception.....

    < Message edited by RCIGN1 -- 9/29/2003 8:25:27 AM >

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/29/2003 6:57 PM   
    pe reivers



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    Status: offline     		Any senseful manufacturer keeps his engine on the safe side of desaster. The individual who tunes his engines oftentimes accepts the shorter life span, and even total failure.
    From own experiments i know, that 9mm is about the optimum for the redhead. Going up in diameter required more than just a carb change, and then the engine became more powerful, but suffered from sagging when sustained power was asked for.
    Disregarding heat load, a larger carb would shift the rpm for best torque up too much to be useful for airplanes, because low end torque will suffer severely. All supposing the internal porting passages support such a larger carb.
    Ricardo's experiments in his research engine showed that best torque is develloped at a mean carb throat gas velocity of ~50m/sec (you asked for it), so that quite clearly defines the carb size for a given displacement and a torque range for a certain rpm. Increase the size, and torque /power curves become peaky. Very good for pylon, but bad for the sports and 3D flier.
    Like Ralph said, in many engines there was not much improvement between 3/8" and 1/2". That is, because the prop load is not linear in it's nature, and at a certain rpm tune with the carb only, the rest of the engine's as flow just is not in tune any more, and internal gas flow efficiency goes down the drain, together with the engine's fitness for use.

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/29/2003 7:11 PM   
    JimRoss



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    Status: offline     		Well now, I seem to have opened a can of worms with that question.
    I understand a little better now, I think. No more silly questions about carbs.


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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/29/2003 7:52 PM   
    pe reivers



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    Status: offline     		For one who needs to know,
    there are no such things as silly questions.
    For example, look at http://morrishobbies.com/images/mvvs/58cc_dyno_big.jpg
    This clearly shows the influence of the pipe length on power output, and how the output becomes peaky at shorter .036 pipe length, with less power below 6800 rpm.
    Re-tuning the carb to the pipe characteristic would improve matters some, at the expense of even greater loss below 6400 rpm

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/29/2003 8:23 PM   
    Antique



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    Status: offline     		And that's why some people are disappointed with Zenoah engines, they're made to turn more rpm..a G26 will turn a Mejzlik at 9000 rpm, but an 18-8 almost kills it, the torque is at 9000 and the peak Hp is at 12,000...A 3W 24 is the best engine in this size range with an 18-8 prop....I just ordered a Mac's pipe for the 26. Glow fuel in a G26 turns that prop 9600 rpm, maybe the pipe will do that with gas

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/29/2003 9:52 PM   
    Scoubidou



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    Status: offline     		A 3W 24 is the best engine in this size range with an 18-8 prop....

    We all know that but you want to spend 580$ (489$+89$) for a 24CC gas engine? It kills all fuel cost saving to switch from glow to gas...
    For the 460$+95$ for muffler, you can buy a ZDZ 40, 40CC at RC showcase. That ZDZ 40CC engine would fit it any 24% to 27% aerobatic plane.

    Scou

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