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    • All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> Gas Engines >> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser
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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/30/2003 12:58 AM   
    crashone


     

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    From: FL
    Status: offline     		I used Master Airscrew 16 x 10 3 blades push prop for MVVS 1.6 engine, I forget what was the rpm(may be about 6000). The plane was about 23 lb and flying was good. No aerobatic since that is not my purpose. Now, my question is if 16 x 10 3 blades prop is proper for this little engine or not? I tried to find better one, but not many choice for pusher at this size. I only find and bought Zinger 18 x 6 and this 3 blades. Others are either too big or too small.
    By the way, it was difficulty to star the engine by hand. Most time I used starter to star the engine and no problem.

    Thanks

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 9/30/2003 7:23 PM   
    pe reivers



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    From: Arcen, , NETHERLANDS
    Status: offline     		With these RPM and a prop in excess of 17", this engine type would be outlawed at most of our national fields, because either the prop becomes too noisy, or low operational rpm render the engine disappointing.
    In Europe, it is very common to have a 80dB(A) operational limit at 7 metres, measured with plane and sound meter at a height of 1 metre. Exceed it, and the club may loose its licence to operate the field.

    I have read many reports of American clubs that have sound problems as well.
    I do not think that a large engine that needs high rpm is the road to succees. It will be confined to an ever smaller market niche as room to move becomes scarce and neighbors start complaining.
    Our clubs design goal is, that prop tip mach numbers should not exceed 0.6: this favors low rpm torqued engines.

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 10/13/2003 4:49 AM   
    Patriot



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    From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
    Status: offline     		OK, Kenair may be able to answer this one, but anyone is of course allowed.

    What is the exact height of the mvvs 1.60 red head from centerline to the very top of the plug cap when the cap is installed?

    My guess is about 5", but does anyone have anything more accurate than a good guess?

    Patriot.

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 10/13/2003 2:32 PM   
    kenair


     

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    Status: offline     		5" is a very good estimate, I just measured the height (engine centerline to top of plug cap) at 4" - 15/16" so say 5".

    cheers - ken k.

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 10/18/2003 12:05 AM   
    RCAIRGreg


     

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    Status: offline     		Well, here is the deal. I have been reading this thread, and I have a few questions. I have a Creek Hobbies Katana 72" span 11-12.5 lb plane. I have on order an MVVS 1.6 Gas becaused my flying buddy convinced me to buy one. I have a YS 1.20, or a Webra 1.2 on the shelf that I was planning on useing. My biggest question is will the MVVS hover this plane? Question #2 is it more powerful than either the YS or my Webra? I like the idea of not buying glow fuel, but if I can get the same performance from say my YS 1.2O then I might as well just put it in and save $500 bucks. Please respond with your input Thanks Greg

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 10/18/2003 12:13 AM   
    JimRoss



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    Status: offline     		RCAIRGreg,
    Ok, here's the poop as I understand it. I bought an older version of the MVVS 1.60 and just today ran it for the first time in a new Hangar 9 Edge 540. Havent flown it yet but I will tomorrow.

    Ran a 18X6W APC prop on it with a pitts style muffler, regular gas with 32:1 oil mixture, I used a digital spring scale to check static thrust and disappointingly enough I only got about 10 1/2 lbs of thrust. Didn't get to measure rpm as my Globee Intellitach ain't so intelligent. It reads 19000 at idle and gets worse from there. Will check rpm tomorrow at field.

    I also have a Zenoah G-26 in my Extra 300XS that puts out almost 17 lbs of thrust (static) at 8800 rpm with same prop, same fuel, same altitude. Granted, the MVVS 1.60 is lighter but if it won't do any better than that I can't use it.

    I would try the glo engines and see which one works best for you. I am really disappointed in this 160 I have.


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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 10/18/2003 12:47 AM   
    Scoubidou



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    Status: offline     		Hello Greg,
    I would bet on the red head can hover your 12 pounds plane with the latest ignition and Bison Pitt Miffler and 18x8 prop at 7200RPM or 17x10 8000 RPM perfectly breakin.
    I would not bet on the older MVVS1.6 version...
    I have a redhead on order and will try it in my Extra 300L- 11lbs next spring. I have already seen a RCS140 hover an Extra300 72'' at 12lbs with 16'' prop

    Scou.

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 10/18/2003 2:52 AM   
    Antique



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    Status: offline     		If you want thrust from a small engine you need an 18 inch prop..A 16 inch prop will not give the thrust of an 18 inch prop..Jim is one of the few guys here that tried it...My customers in Arizona all use 18 inch props..THEY listened...
    All the theory in the world will not replace "hands on" experience, like Jim has....

    < Message edited by RCIGN1 -- 10/18/2003 4:08:42 AM >

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 10/18/2003 3:40 AM   
    JimRoss



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    Status: offline     		Feel like getting your brain picked some???????

    I finally got around to running my MVVS 1.60 gasser today and I was terribly disappointed. It is the same displacement as my Zenoah G-26, ie 26cc, but it will not put out like the G-26 will, not even close!

    I ran a 18X6W APC prop on it, same fuel, same oil, same altitude, same everything. It starts really easily with just one or two flips, idles beautifully, transitions great, just won't get the rpm out the tail pipes. Ihave one of those free flowing wrap around Pitts style mufflers on it and a stock 8mm carb. Shrug!

    Don't know what the deal is but right now all I can think of to say is, It Sucks!
    Plane weighs 13 lbs on the nose and engine puts out 10 1/2 lbs of thrust, using same scale to check thrust and weight. Even tried different type prop with no change. Don't know what the rpm is yet, my tach went stupid on me. Have to go to the field tomorrow and use someone elses tach.

    Got any really good suggestions for me?????????????
    Thanks,
    JimRoss


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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 10/18/2003 9:13 AM   
    pe reivers



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    Status: offline     		Jim,

    You said it was an old NIB engine.
    Please elaborate on date sold, graphite coated piston (Y/N), ignition type. Carb type (choke valve?)
    All engines are capable of delivering in excess of 15 lbs thrust using a 18x8 prop.
    I tried an APC 18x6 and like you, was extremely disappointed with it.
    If the piston in your engine is not graphite plated, you can drill out the carb to 8mm. Otherwise, with carbon plated piston, 9mm will be better. That makes a world of difference.
    The MVVS needs a long running in, and you should not ask prolonged max power from a gas engine before it is ready to deliver. That is common for all lightweight-high power gas engines, and MVVS is no exception. Treat it right, and it will reward you.
    Hovering a 12 lbs plane with the old type engine was possible, though it needed a tuned pipe, not the pitts type muffler, wich robs the engine of breathing capacity.

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 10/18/2003 9:22 AM   
    pe reivers



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    From: Arcen, , NETHERLANDS
    Status: offline     		Mmmm...
    A bit off topic, BUT
    RCU seems to have retrieved all old settings I once could not use any more.
    lets see how this works out and which avitar.


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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 10/18/2003 3:02 PM   
    RCAIRGreg


     

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    Status: offline     		What about my second question. Is the MVVS 1.6 more power than either the Webra 1.20 or the YS 1.20? From What I have read it should be. What do you guys say? Morris claims it produces 17lb thrust, now that maybe with a tuned pipe however, but I can not use a pipe on this plane. I am just concerned that I may be spending $500 (engine, muffler, prop, fuel line, and extra plug) that may not give me better performance than my YS 1.20 when concidering the added weight of the mvvs. I think my YS is about 30oz ready to go where the MVVS will be about 42oz. That means the MVVS would have to produce about a pound more thrust just to break even with the YS. OK Guys Talk......

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 10/18/2003 3:50 PM   
    Antique



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    Status: offline     		Morris uses the ThrustHp program for thrust..That program shows 25+ for the G26...

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 10/18/2003 5:49 PM   
    Hans Meij


     

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    Status: offline     		In my setup the 'old' version with a muffler did 6700 tpm on a Menz 18*8
    Last week tried the new version with a pipe. This setup did 7700 tpm on the Menz 18*8
    the 7700 was measured in the first minute of the engines (running) life

    Pictures of old and new setup can be found here:
    http://home.hetnet.nl/~meijhmb/models/modelsbiglift.htm

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 10/18/2003 6:50 PM   
    Antique



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    Status: offline     		FWIW.. A G26 turns a Mejzlik 18-6 at 10,000 with a pipe
    THAT shows 30 lbs on the highly optimistic ThrustHp chart...

    < Message edited by RCIGN1 -- 10/18/2003 7:52:20 PM >

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 10/18/2003 7:07 PM   
    Scoubidou



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    Status: offline     		A G26 turns a Mejzlik 18-6 at 10,000 with a pipe
    THAT shows 30 lbs on the highly optimistic ThrustHp chart

    Damn....I am gonna cancel my order for the MVVS1.6! Does G26 have an electronic ignition?
    Scou

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 10/18/2003 7:38 PM   
    Hans Meij


     

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    Status: offline     		Damn....I am gonna cancel my order for the MVVS1.6! Does G26 have an electronic ignition?
    Scou, read what other people are getting out of the G26
    http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_434124/mpage_7/tm.htm

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 10/18/2003 8:05 PM   
    Antique



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    Status: offline     		It does if I put it on...Also note the carb adapter, no bell crank, no leak...
    Model Aairplane News, Sept. 2003, Page 102, lower left...

    < Message edited by RCIGN1 -- 10/18/2003 9:08:54 PM >

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 10/18/2003 10:59 PM   
    f2racer



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    Status: offline     		Anybody ever stick one of these 1.6s on say a Creek Hobbies or GSP Katana? Would it 3D worth anything? I figure with the MVVS the plane would weigh just shy of 12lbs...

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 10/19/2003 12:00 AM   
    kenair


     

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    Status: offline     		I've been reading the last few threads with amusement as every one is focussing on rpms and thrust, and how many gas engines on pipes do you running at the field - not too many

    If you want great power then pick a slimer like a Moki 2.1 or a Saito 180 and burn fuel at $18.00 a gallon.

    If you want a weedwacker engine that runs a mag put out good power, is a bit wide and some what bulk then pick up a G26.

    If you want a gas engine that looks like a glow engine that you are familier with and will fit in planes where you might have used a Webra 120 , which is built well and burns $3.00 gallon fuel then the MVVS 1.6 might be the ticket.

    I have a 1/2 dozen brands of gas engines in the fleet, each has their strenght and weaknesses and not one is head and shoulder above their competition.

    Would I give up 500 or 700 rpm for an engine that starts easy, runs smooth, is very reliable, burn $3.00 fuel and will last a few years, in a second yes.

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 10/19/2003 11:14 AM   
    pe reivers



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    Status: offline     		Just go easy on her Hans for the first gallon.
    The engine needs quite some time to run in well. RPM you got is right in the ball park.
    with the APC 18x8N you may get as high as 8400 rpm (MVVS tuned pipe), but that prop is not worth one iota thrustwise.

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 10/19/2003 11:29 AM   
    pe reivers



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    From: Arcen, , NETHERLANDS
    Status: offline     		Kenair,
    That is exactly my feeling.
    Most of the time these engines are run with a very restrictive muffler, to not have too many parts sticking out of the plane. With MVVS, the Bisson is popular, because it is least restrictive to power. Now MVVS also produces a Pitts type muffler, because that is better suited for "normal" use.
    It is the use of the engine that dictates the muffler you need. (form follows function)

    Slimers in that same category need lots of fuel, and lots of nitro. The 3D guys at our field have no problem with the high fuel cost, but consider going up in cubic inches and switch to gas.

    What also amuses me is that everyone tends to stick with Thrust-HP, and publish the static rpm calculation result as thrust. The program even does manage to ignore pitch, which is most important in static conditions!

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 10/19/2003 1:32 PM   
    f2racer



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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: pe reivers
    Now MVVS also produces a Pitts type muffler, because that is better suited for "normal" use.
    It is the use of the engine that dictates the muffler you need. (form follows function)


    Pe, do you have any additional info about the MVVS pitts muffler? Been having a really tough time tracking down a Bisson pitts for my engine.

    Thanks!

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 10/19/2003 1:41 PM   
    visioneer_one



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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: f2racer

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: pe reivers
    Now MVVS also produces a Pitts type muffler, because that is better suited for "normal" use.
    It is the use of the engine that dictates the muffler you need. (form follows function)


    Pe, do you have any additional info about the MVVS pitts muffler? Been having a really tough time tracking down a Bisson pitts for my engine.

    Thanks!


    Is this what you're looking for?

    I have a couple of them. Cut the curled tips off the outlet tips for a small RPM boost.

    < Message edited by visioneer_one -- 10/22/2003 3:17:27 PM >

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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 10/19/2003 3:23 PM   
    pe reivers



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    Status: offline     		The muffler is welded up alu tube with two domed side covers. Inside are two side chambers, separated from the main chamber with a perforated plate. The stinger pipes exit from the side chambers. All welded seamless
    See picture

    Attachments
    Click to see fullsize image.
    Click for fullsize


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    All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> Gas Engines >> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser
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