RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (Full Version)

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PlaneKrazee -> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (11/16/2003 7:49:21 PM)

Scou,

Glad to hear things are working out for you.

Do you have a 17X8, 18X6 or 18X8 APC prop available to try?

Brian




Scoubidou -> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (11/16/2003 9:59:47 PM)

Skypilot,
Not yet, but i will buy 17x10, 18x8 wood prop this week.
Over 16'', the wood prop are lighter, more rigid, more efficient for the same price than heavy APC. I did not want to overcharge my red head for break in and that's why i used the 16x12 to start.

16x12 gives 10lbs static thrust, 84mph
18x8, 7400 gives, 16lbs thrust[:D], and 56mph. more suitable for my needs.
My body had some problems with his red head. His ignition does not fire? I think he got a lemon but Pé Reivers is working on it to solve this issue.
Scou




pe reivers -> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (11/17/2003 12:19:07 AM)

Scou,
Bear in mind, that the Bisson muffler robs the engine of power, as compared to the MVVS tuned pipe.
However, 16 lbs thrust static on a Bisson is not bad at all. The pipe will add 2 lbs typical.
Stick with the 32:1 mix. Power will be better, The engine needs a couple of gallons before you can go to 40:1.
In my engines, I only use the 32:1 mix, and am not contemplating going leaner.

Yes, we will work out André's problem.




Scoubidou -> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (11/17/2003 1:05:34 AM)

Ok Pé
I will come back to 32:1 for few gallons. Oil is good for mechanical parts and from what i have seen, there is no more power develloped by that engine with less oil.

16lbs of thrust is my dream based on the optimist thrust HP software. Do you think it's possible to get the same 7400 RPM with a 18x8 on my set up?[8|]
Scou




pe reivers -> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (11/17/2003 7:36:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scoubidou

Ok Pé
I will come back to 32:1 for few gallons. Oil is good for mechanical parts and from what i have seen, there is no more power develloped by that engine with less oil.

16lbs of thrust is my dream based on the optimist thrust HP software. Do you think it's possible to get the same 7400 RPM with a 18x8 on my set up?[8|]
Scou


I have only experimented with the tuned pipe. Since the Bisson is quite popular on your side of the pond, maybe someone can jump in here and report his own experience?
I think 7300 on 18x8 will be quite close, if not pessimistic.




JAYNC -> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (11/17/2003 11:25:14 PM)

Well I almost have a gallon of fuel through my new 1.60 gas and it gets stronger every flight. I am currently flying it in a desert aircraft funtana which weighs 11.3 pounds fully fueled. I am running a master airscrew 17x8 scimitar prop taching at 8100. I couldnt be more happier with this engine. I am hoping for around 7800 rpm's with an 18x8 in a few gallons. Right now my plane will hover and pull out of it rather well.




Scoubidou -> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (11/17/2003 11:56:39 PM)

Hello JAYNC
1)What is your oil mixture ratio to get the 8100 with 17x8 MA prop?
2) Where is set your throttle stick on the radio to hover, 80%, 90%??
3) What is your idle RPM?

I will try MA wooden prop 17x10 this weekend and let you know!
Scou




JAYNC -> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (11/18/2003 1:12:51 AM)

I am running 40:1 mix 89 octane, I believe it was around 80% throttle and would pull out ok from hover, I think the engine still has a long way to go for break-in so it should get better. I havent got a tach reading for idle I will keep in touch with you and let you know when I run it next.




Scoubidou -> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (11/18/2003 2:04:59 AM)

Well, the Funtana has a great reputation for 3D stuff and the MVVS1.6 is a good choice. I would suggest to put a 18x8 to hover.

It seems that RCU want to do a customer review or database on this engine?
http://www.rcuniverse.com/product_guide/engineprofile.cfm?engine_id=385
Scou




JAYNC -> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (11/18/2003 2:37:20 AM)

Yeah thats the prop I am going to use after a couple more gallons of gas through it. I have a apc 18x8 competition prop




PlaneKrazee -> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (11/18/2003 9:51:39 AM)

JAYNC,

Is that APC 18X8 a narrow blade prop?

Why not throw a APC wide blade on one of these MVVS puppies so we can compare rpms to other engines that have been tested with these standards?




JAYNC -> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (11/18/2003 9:38:41 PM)

It a very wide blade at the base and it gets thin towards the end, it is the apc 18x8 competition prop




ole.steen -> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (11/18/2003 10:05:35 PM)

Guys!

I have a redhead engine (well, it doesen't have a red head, but it is still the same thing). I wanted a manual choke, and was trying to figure out a way to make a detent mechanism (click- stop). Then I looked a little closer on the carb, and realized that there is a hole in the casting ment for a spring and ball for this purpose. Remove (destroy) black quadrant and spring. Take out the choke shaft. Slip in a little spring and a 3,5 mm ball. Make a couple of dimples with your dremel in the shaft, and presto, click- stop choke.




JimRoss -> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (11/18/2003 10:32:37 PM)

Not meaning to take anything away from your idea, but choke shmoke, I just want mine to run.
My ignition went Kapooie! That's Texan for broke.[:@][:-]




Scoubidou -> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (11/18/2003 10:41:53 PM)

Olesteen!!!!!
Do you have any pic of your manual choke? I am looking for a manual choke to put on mine. It is not easy to close the choke with your thumb when you have a cowl.

I bought a 1/8 alumium plate to do a spacer between the muffler an the exhaust to reduce the leaks. Hope it will work? My gasket did not work, it was damage after the first tank...

Scou




ole.steen -> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (11/18/2003 10:45:31 PM)

Jim!
Just to add to the insult and envy I also have a 18x8W APC prop, a Krumscheid 22mm stainless header and the original MVVS pipe, as well as a working ignition. I have a FUntana almost ready to fly, but i just bought a tach this morning. I'll get back to you whaen I have some readings. BTW: haven't anyone done any real thrust measurements, I man with a scale? Thrust seems to be the only hard currency here.




ole.steen -> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (11/18/2003 11:11:32 PM)

Scoub!

I'm afraid my digital camera isn't very good for closeups. I'll try to decribe the details instead:
The idea is to get rid of the return spring, and replace it with a detend that will hold the choke spindle both in the open and closed position.

If you take a close look of the end of the carb, you will see a 3,5mm (1/8") hole over the choke spindle on the end opposite the return spring. This hole continues under the spindle.

If you remove the screw holding the choke baffle, and the one on the end of the spindle, the spindle can be withdrawn from the housing. Remove return spring and black quadrant.

Find, steal or buy a small spring ( I have a box with assorted springs bought at a machine shop, very handy) and a ballbearing ball to fit the hole precisely (you may drill out the hole a fraction if neccessary).

The spring goes into the hole first, adjust the lenght to fit. Push the ball into the hole, hold it in the hole with a rod, and replace the spindle to hold the ball in the hole. (This is when the ball slips, and goes like a projectile across the room) The idea is that the spring pushes the ball against the spindle.

You now need to make 2 small dimples in the spindle, one for the open and one for the closed position. In each position the ball catches in the dimple and you have a positive click stop. Make an arm from a wheelcollar and piano wire or similar. I found a hairpinspring in my thrusty assortment that had an inner diameter just smaller than the spindle so that it could be slipped on when opened, and locked when released.




pe reivers -> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (11/19/2003 8:22:51 PM)

while you are at it,
choose three dimple positions:
one for closed choke, one for slightly open, and one for fully open. The slightly open one is needed to warm up the engine.

For a spring, a ball point spring will do fine. Instead of the ball, a drill end can be ground with a obtuse angle and then sawn off and deburred well. The small cylinder will function the same as the ball.




Landoses -> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (11/21/2003 2:47:13 AM)

Just curious as to what you guys think about putting this 1.60 gasser and Bisson muffler on a Carl Goldberg Extra 300 as far as flying it goes, it will fit no problem, a little taller LG should be no problem. I'm not sure of the weight issue if there is one a YS 140 does fine. I have two of these planes and plan on keeping them till they don't fly. I want to go completely gas.

Lan




Scoubidou -> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (11/21/2003 2:50:50 PM)

Hello Lan
I think the MVVS1.6 would be a little bit too heavy for that small plane. Check your wing loading (25 to 30 oz/sqft is good), the wing area is quite small on that plane. I think your wing loading will be around 32 to 35 oz/sqft. Landing and take off would be a problem but as soons as your are in the air, the party begin with a lot of power![:D]

I would sugest a RCS140 wich is lighter than MVVS for that specific plane and if want to try a gasser tod practice your high speed landing![:)]

I bought a CF landing for Graptech for my 24% CA extra300 and it's the same as your Golberg Extra 300. Send an email to Mike for pricing and delivery.


scou




Scoubidou -> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (11/21/2003 6:32:24 PM)

Hi guys!
I wanted to let you know the results of my leaks. That's what i call, good service and support[:)]:

quote:

From: Bisson Custom Mufflers
To: daniel dion
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 6:30 AM
Subject: Re: 5516 for MVVS1.6


Hello Daniel,

No, you don't have a defective muffler. That is how we manufacture the MVVS 1.60 and you're the first to tell us it hit's the Hanger 9 mount. We try to manufacture mufflers that are larger volume to reduce noise, with minimum to no loss in power if we can. Your 1/8" spacer should do the trick and we don't recommend using a gasket. We always use high temperature silicone which you should be able to get at Canadian Tire also. The brand we buy is called Permatex Ultra Copper and it's orange/red in colour. As far as the bolts go, I think we have some longer 4mm bolts but I'll have to check on that for you. If we do, I'll send em off to you if you haven't already picked up some from somewhere.

It's very difficult to make a muffler that will conform to everyone's applications on their aircraft. If you were to have called or e-mailed us about this, I would have suggested exactly what you have already done and made up a spacer for you, so long as you had enough room in your cowel to accomodate such a spacer. Please let me know if your spacer works out and the permatex silicone also, and I thank you for letting me know that our muffler fits so close to that mount. Now we can notify other customers about it and be able to provide the necessary spacer for them if they too need it.

James Bisson Jr.

----- Original Message -----
From: daniel dion
To: info@bissonmufflers.com
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 10:55 PM
Subject: 5516 for MVVS1.6


Hello
I bought your Pitt muffler 5516 and have tried it with my MVVS1.6. The performance is good but i have 2 problems:

1) There are always leaks beween the muffler and the engine??
2) The distance beween the muffler and the engine mount hangar 9 #2033 is less than 0.5mm. At idle, the motor shakes and the mufler tip touch the engine mount causing the muffler to unscrew from the engine head.

Can you build a longer header to avoid this vibration issue? I did an 1/8'' aluminium spacer today and will try it this weekend but now, the screw supplied with your muffler is too short.
The distance W (from your drawing) plus header is 1''5/8. Do i have a defect muffler? I feel the gap for W distance+header should be at least 1''3/4'' to give a mimimum of clearance.

I have tried a gas gasket from Canadian tire but it does not work? The muffler temp is too hot for a gasket.
What do you recommand me to avoid the leaks?

http://www.bissonmufflers.com/en/muffler.html?mufflers::listing_id=114034#




Scoubidou -> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (11/29/2003 5:26:41 PM)

I have tried 2 different prop today on the red head.

APC 17x10: 7300RPM
Wooden Master Airsrew 18x8: 6900RPM
40:1 ratio
No more leaks with my 1/8'' alumium spacer and the Permatex Ultra Copper silicone[:D].

I hope getting more RPM with 18x8 next spring?? The snow is falling down today in QC-Canada and i am going to work on my winter project 24% Extra 300.

Scoubi




pe reivers -> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (11/29/2003 7:39:59 PM)

So far all looks well Daniel.
Gas engines are better manageable in winter than glow. Just put skis under the wheels :-)
Put some more oil in the mix. I think 1:40 is the upper limit, and found best results myself with 1:33.
These engines have a cantilever crank pin, which leaves the big-end free to rub the rear cover. Extra oil will not harm.




Scoubidou -> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (11/29/2003 8:47:53 PM)

Hi Pé
How many gallons of gas MVVS1.6 needs to be perfectly break in? It seems that engine is getting stronger every tank but , when will it be at its top performance where the prop's speed can not go higher?

I still have 3/4 gallon of 40:1 ratio and it is difficult to see what would be the ratio is i add more oil?

MVVS's manual recommend 40:1 ratio for 30 minutes and 50:1 after??

Daniel




pe reivers -> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser (11/29/2003 10:02:29 PM)

alculating the oil addition is easy.

3/4 gallon is 3 liter (about)
this contains 3/40=0.075 liter oil (75cc)
3 liter should contain 3/33=0.090 liter oil.
The difference is 0.015 liter, or about 1/2 ounce.

I know MVVS recommends 1:50 when run in. They also recommend Mobil 1 2T oil, which is not available everywhere, and they have steadily increased the oil content for the glow engines.
I use Castrol scoot-r at 1:32, and have extensively tested with Valvoline Synpower, at ratios up to 1:80.
At the field I tend to observe the "feel" of the engines, and thus determine if I use the right lubrication amount.
So far, using the common available quality low ash semi-synthetic oils, 1:32 felt best, and allowed the engines to rev up freely. It did not matter much which oil brand, as long as the engine did not turn sticky when cold. That made starting a bit more difficult. (lazy flips hand starts)

It is difficult to say when the running in process is ending. At first, the engine limbers up, and reaches top power; it will accept sustained full power. Then, when parts wear some more, the engine becomes truely free, but may very slowly start to loose some power due to larger internal clearances which cause increased gas leaks. That is when the engine is fully run in, and even accepts quite severe abuse every now and then.
That state will not be reached in two gallons. It takes some more than that, and in the process, the engine will adapt to the pilot's habits for better or worse.




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