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    • All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> Gas Engines >> RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser
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    RE: mvvs 1.60 gasser - 11/30/2003 2:14:36 AM   
    Scoubidou



    Posts: 1541
    Joined: 7/7/2003
    From: Boisbriand, QC, CANADA
    Status: offline
    quote:

    It did not matter much which oil brand, as long as the engine did not turn sticky when cold. That made starting a bit more difficult. (lazy flips hand starts)

    I am gonna add some oil to be around 32:1 ratio, and keep the plug 'black' with all that oil

    My engine is always difficult to start when cold for the first run. I flip the prop by hand 10 or 15 times without success but i soon as i use the electric starter, the engine start at the first try? Once hot, it start easy at the first or second flip. Does it mean i will always need my starter for the first run?

    (in reply to pe reivers)
           Post #: 201

    RE: <span class= - 11/30/2003 12:04:44 PM   
    pe reivers



    Posts: 2622
    Joined: 1/23/2002
    From: Arcen, , NETHERLANDS
    Status: offline     		If the plug is too dark, your mixtures are set too rich. This is hardly influenced by the oil content.
    First set your needles right. MVVS sets them quite rich to allow sure starts.
    The low needle influences the full range, while the high needle is for the top half only.
    That means, that the low needle must be adjusted first. Lean it out for max rpm, then open up 1/4 turn.
    Then turn to the high needle, and find max rpm. Richen about 1/8 tyrn.
    Now go back to the low needle, and check throttle response. Lean out, till response gets less, then richen up again to good response.
    Finally readjust the high needle for max rpm with richest setting, maybe 50 rpm off peak.
    Repeat the procedure as required to get it just right.
    Now your plug insulator should show a deer brown color, or medium grey, depending on gas or oil brand. White indicates lean mixtures, black is too rich.
    This is not changed by oil content, unless you enter the 1:10 range; Then the oil will darken the plug somewhat.

    This works for me.
    Important!! Set your standard idle throttle setting so that engine will keep running, and is switched off using the ignition.
    Starting:
    open the throttle to 1/3, then close the choke, and flip until the engine fires. (about 5 flips) The engine will stop again.
    Close throttle to a few clicks open, open the choke slightly and start the engine. That should be in about 3 flips.
    As the engine warms up, open the choke and check throttle response.

    Alternative:
    Choke the engine, ignition off, at 1/3 throttle, untill it is hissing wet.
    Open the choke slightly, throttle few clicks open, turn on ignition, and flip.
    Starting is on first or second flip.
    Open the choke as the engine warms up.

    _____________________________

    Pe, Dealer for MVVS, MTW and Mejzlik; www.mvvs.nl
    There is sanctuary in analisys.

    (in reply to Scoubidou)
           Post #: 202

    RE: <span class= - 11/30/2003 7:12:40 PM   
    Scoubidou



    Posts: 1541
    Joined: 7/7/2003
    From: Boisbriand, QC, CANADA
    Status: offline     		I am back to 32:1 ratio and burned 2 tanks of gas (12oz) today.

    APC17x10=7400RPM
    MA18x8=6900 and peak 7000RPM for 2 sec only.
    temp:0 degreC

    I hope this engine can swing my 18x8 prop at 7300RPM after 2 gallons or i'll be little bit disappointed. Maybe a Menz prop can help?? It sounds the MA 18x8 is too much prop without tune pipe. A 17x10 prop around 7500RPM would be better.

    I removed all heavy springs on throttle and choke. I played with the idle adjustment and, Pé is right, the idle setting affect the top speed.
    The engine is really tight and the high needle adjustment is very sensitive to get max RPM. I would say 1/32'' or 1/16'' of displacement can change by 200RPM the max speed.

    Not able to start without electric starter today. After 15 flip, i used my starter. Maybe the cold temp has an impact on the MVVs like my glow engines? They are difficult to start during winter
    Scou.

    (in reply to pe reivers)
           Post #: 203

    RE: <span class= - 12/1/2003 7:40:05 PM   
    pe reivers



    Posts: 2622
    Joined: 1/23/2002
    From: Arcen, , NETHERLANDS
    Status: offline     		Daniel,

    You either flood the engine, or are not getting enough gas in there for the first start. That is hard to tell from here.

    If after about 5 flips the engine has not popped, kill the ignition, and remove the plug. If it is dry, then you know that no gas went up there. If it is too wet, the engine is flooded, and you need the starter to clear her lungs again.

    I just LOVE gas engines ;-) Much like women, they need to be treated just right to achieve a friendly relationship.

    _____________________________

    Pe, Dealer for MVVS, MTW and Mejzlik; www.mvvs.nl
    There is sanctuary in analisys.

    (in reply to Scoubidou)
           Post #: 204

    RE: <span class= - 12/1/2003 7:45:33 PM   
    pe reivers



    Posts: 2622
    Joined: 1/23/2002
    From: Arcen, , NETHERLANDS
    Status: offline     		around 7000 rpm is not bad for an in-cowl muffler and an 18x8 prop. Do not underestimate the thrust that such a large prop devellops.
    Check in flight what suits you best.
    See that more oil brings more rpm ?? <VBG> Engines just like to be slippery.

    _____________________________

    Pe, Dealer for MVVS, MTW and Mejzlik; www.mvvs.nl
    There is sanctuary in analisys.

    (in reply to Scoubidou)
           Post #: 205

    RE: <span class= - 12/1/2003 8:19:22 PM   
    Scoubidou



    Posts: 1541
    Joined: 7/7/2003
    From: Boisbriand, QC, CANADA
    Status: offline
    quote:

    You either flood the engine, or are not getting enough gas in there for the first start. That is hard to tell from here.


    I know what you mean, it takes time to understand what that engine needs to start. Patience is not really my strength and specially under 0 degree C!!

    quote:

    I just LOVE gas engines ;-) Much like women, they need to be treated just right to achieve a friendly relationship


    My problem is not giving not enough time to this hobby but my wife always blames me of giving all my time and cash in that hobby!!

    Daniel

    (in reply to pe reivers)
           Post #: 206

    RE: <span class= - 12/2/2003 12:59:44 AM   
    ricfly52


     

    Posts: 133
    Joined: 12/7/2001
    From: Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Status: offline     		I just checked into this thread and find it very informative and interesting. I have owned my MVVS 1.60 for a year now, and have been running it in a 25% Edge 540 that weighs in at 11-3/4 lbs dry. I am using a APC 17X8 prop. Its been awhile since I checked the rpm but I believe it to be around 8300 rpm. The Edge will hang on the prop but not pull up, so I don't hover down low . (I just hate pick up sticks, ya know what I mean Vern?) All in all, this has been a good engine for the plane it is in. I competed a bit this summer in basic Imac, and had a ball with it. It will do Imac sportsman fine but I doubt that it would do well above that. That is ok because I doubt I will ever get any better than that anyway. The biggest observation that I have had with this engine is it needs a good long break in. I ran about a half a gallon through it on the bench, here in my shop, and then stuck it in the Edge. I didn't get good performance until I had about three gallons through it. That gave me plenty of time to fiddle with the needles and kinda get them figured out. Don't be afraid to adjust your needle settings. If they get all dorked up(which I did ) just return to the original starting settings and begin again. It takes a bit of fiddling before you get good at setting it up. PE Reivers suggestions for tuning are right on, so check them out. This is a good engine and I have the older one. I bet the Red head is great.

    Rick

    (in reply to Scoubidou)
           Post #: 207

    RE: <span class= - 12/2/2003 2:56:05 AM   
    Scoubidou



    Posts: 1541
    Joined: 7/7/2003
    From: Boisbriand, QC, CANADA
    Status: offline     		Hi Rick
    What kind of muffler do you have to get 8300RPM with 17x8 prop?
    Daniel

    (in reply to ricfly52)
           Post #: 208

    RE: <span class= - 12/2/2003 7:53:48 PM   
    pe reivers



    Posts: 2622
    Joined: 1/23/2002
    From: Arcen, , NETHERLANDS
    Status: offline     		The engine revs too high when propped at 8300 rpm.
    Around 7000 - 7500 is best, so for vertical acceleration try an 18x7-8. The engine then is tuned between max torque and max rpm, which allows for unwinding in the air.
    Imac at masters level is possible with your combo and a mvvs tuned pipe, using an 16,5x12 Bolly wich will run at about 8200 rpm with a 9mm bore carb. (Some of the old 1.60 have the 7mm carb)

    _____________________________

    Pe, Dealer for MVVS, MTW and Mejzlik; www.mvvs.nl
    There is sanctuary in analisys.

    (in reply to ricfly52)
           Post #: 209

    RE: <span class= - 12/3/2003 12:19:12 AM   
    ricfly52


     

    Posts: 133
    Joined: 12/7/2001
    From: Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Status: offline     		I have a Bisson pitts stlye muffler. I was wrong with the 8300 rpm. I checked it today and I am getting 7500 rpm. Sorry for the bad info. My engine does have the 7mm carby. I am going to drill it out to 8mm when I get a round tuit. As I said it runs pretty darn well as is. I have no complaints. I did take me a bit of hair pulling to get the needles set right, but I am sure that was my inexperience with gas engines. This is a good engine. Boy it sure takes a lot of flying to put a gallon of fuel throught it.

    (in reply to pe reivers)
           Post #: 210

    RE: <span class= - 12/3/2003 12:25:27 AM   
    JAYNC


     

    Posts: 141
    Joined: 7/2/2003
    From: newport, NC, USA
    Status: offline     		I have the bisson pitts muffler on my plane and it gets 8100 rpm on a master airscrew 17x8 scimitar prop. I am going to an 18x8 this weekend, I expect it to be around 7500. I have the redhead version and all I can say about it is that its tricky to start the first time but after its warm it starts good.

    (in reply to ricfly52)
           Post #: 211

    RE: <span class= - 12/3/2003 1:50:47 AM   
    Scoubidou



    Posts: 1541
    Joined: 7/7/2003
    From: Boisbriand, QC, CANADA
    Status: offline     		Hi guys!
    Do you use the electric starter or your fingers to start it from cold? How many prime do you use?

    Jaync, you should follow Pé's recommendations about the prop. That engine developps max HP in 7000 to 7500RPM range where 16x12, 17x10 and 18x8 prop will give more thrust than your 17x8 prop for less RPM!!

    Thrust HP
    17x8, 8100=15lbs. If you can really get that RPM, you will turn the 18x8 around 7400 or 7500...for 16lbs of thrust!!

    My results after 1 gallon
    16x12, 7400=10lbs of thrust
    17x10, 7500=14lbs
    18x8, 7000RPM=14.5lbs
    Daniel

    (in reply to JAYNC)
           Post #: 212

    RE: <span class= - 12/3/2003 8:05:37 AM   
    JAYNC


     

    Posts: 141
    Joined: 7/2/2003
    From: newport, NC, USA
    Status: offline     		I also wrote that I am going to an 18x8 prop this weekend

    (in reply to Scoubidou)
           Post #: 213

    RE: <span class= - 12/3/2003 2:25:19 PM   
    pe reivers



    Posts: 2622
    Joined: 1/23/2002
    From: Arcen, , NETHERLANDS
    Status: offline     		If your engine has the 7mm carb, but has a graphite coated piston, drill out the carb to 9mm for best power.
    I had more power with that engine than with the newer redheads and the carb with choke. That is, because the choke plate restricts the airflow. Also, the fuel jet protrudes in the venturi, which it does not in the drilled out carb.
    The only difference is, that the main jet mut be opened an additional 1/2 turn, and say goodby to the extremely low fuel consumption you have at the moment. Everything comes at a price; Win some, loose some.

    _____________________________