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RE: PROBLEMS WITH DLE 20CC AND OTHER SMALL GAS ENGINES?? - 11/16/2011 6:40 AM   
Indiomike


 

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ORIGINAL: captinjohn

NOT a reply...just a thought.

It seems like right from the start of this thread the replys was of a so what nature.  Maximiliano Galvez  is a real good machinest and a all around good engine man.  You guys should at least be more polite and not reply with smart remarks that mean nothing.  He evidently found something in his working on the DLE 20cc engines and is willing to share.  You guys that do not need help with your engine....be silent.  Let the guys that really want to learn do the replys.  Mr Galvez did not post for the heck of it.....he wants to help is all.  So be more kind please.   I have seen his work....its top notch.   Capt,n


Excellent comment Capt'n. I agree with you 100%. Thanks for sharing Maximiliano Galvez.

Mike

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RE: PROBLEMS WITH DLE 20CC AND OTHER SMALL GAS ENGINES?? - 11/16/2011 12:05 PM   
captinjohn


 

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Status: online 		Indiomike, Thanks for the kind words. I would think a well desighned velocity intake stack would help allright like Mr Galves says.  When I get a 20cc or smaller gas engine...I will pay him for one. Is is evident he has put a ot of thought into this part and tried it on some engines.  Keep up the good work Mr Galves.  Do not let a few smart a$$ remarks kill you intrest in making engines run better.  Best Regards to all that deserve it....Guys like Mr Galves.    Capt,n

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RE: PROBLEMS WITH DLE 20CC AND OTHER SMALL GAS ENGINES?? - 11/16/2011 10:12 PM   
Maximiliano Galvez



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quote:

ORIGINAL: captinjohn

NOT a reply...just a thought.

It seems like right from the start of this thread the replys was of a so what nature.  Maximiliano Galvez  is a real good machinest and a all around good engine man.  You guys should at least be more polite and not reply with smart remarks that mean nothing.  He evidently found something in his working on the DLE 20cc engines and is willing to share.  You guys that do not need help with your engine....be silent.  Let the guys that really want to learn do the replys.  Mr Galvez did not post for the heck of it.....he wants to help is all.  So be more kind please.   I have seen his work....its top notch.   Capt,n


CaptinJohn

really I apreciate your words
Thank you very much
Sincerely Maximiliano

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RE: PROBLEMS WITH DLE 20CC AND OTHER SMALL GAS ENGINES?? - 11/16/2011 10:28 PM   
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Status: offline 		I'm getting some and will include them in the sale of the 20. Love to try new things. Dennis

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RE: PROBLEMS WITH DLE 20CC AND OTHER SMALL GAS ENGINES?? - 11/17/2011 1:01 AM   
Tired Old Man


 

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Status: offline 		Is the inlet the same diameter as what is found on the DLE 20 carb or of a different size? How many poor idling engines has this solution resolved? This may be something particular to the smaller gas engines so I'm interested to hearing more about how well it works and the number of different engines it has been tried on.

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RE: PROBLEMS WITH DLE 20CC AND OTHER SMALL GAS ENGINES?? - 11/17/2011 1:54 AM   
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Status: offline 		looks like an annular booster found on our big cfm racing carbs, IF it works the same as our boosters do , it increases the velocity of the air improving the signal the carb fuel circuits see, in our case it improves the drivability off the corner, big cfm carbs make good power on the top end but at slow engine speeds the throttle response is less than ideal

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RE: PROBLEMS WITH DLE 20CC AND OTHER SMALL GAS ENGINES?? - 11/17/2011 3:58 PM   
captinjohn


 

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ORIGINAL: wesaysoracing

looks like an annular booster found on our big cfm racing carbs, IF it works the same as our boosters do , it increases the velocity of the air improving the signal the carb fuel circuits see, in our case it improves the drivability off the corner, big cfm carbs make good power on the top end but at slow engine speeds the throttle response is less than ideal

That sure makes good sense too me.   Thanks for you reply.  Best Regards,    Capt,n

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RE: PROBLEMS WITH DLE 20CC AND OTHER SMALL GAS ENGINES?? - 11/18/2011 6:51 AM   
Ernie Misner



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Status: offline 		Max, that is very clean work! To me it seems strange that any type of a stack would have much effect at idle ... ?

Keep us posted, thanks,

Ernie Misner

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RE: PROBLEMS WITH DLE 20CC AND OTHER SMALL GAS ENGINES?? - 11/18/2011 4:41 PM   
Maximiliano Galvez



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

Max, that is very clean work! To me it seems strange that any type of a stack would have much effect at idle ... ?

Keep us posted, thanks,

Ernie Misner


Dear Ernie

In my case I design this for engine conversions. IMy first problem was in an os 120 FS, Whe I make first test engine works nices stars nice, I carburate it.

But whhen I stop it the engine dont start well again, has idle problems untill I open needle valbles, It sytarts weel and need close again Needle valbles.
STops and again same problem.

I take to much hours checking what happen. I opned walbro carburetor, change it 3 timesand dont get good solution. The best I found in this moment wasit, in the diafragm in has a little leg, tah open a vavle. I bend it for it open more (this leg always has to be calibrated, exist a tool for calibrate but i move it calibration)

the result was better but not good..


Then I decide to make an speed intake, I feell the probelm alwais was gas. I make one and test and incredible. So better, I full trotle i get 100 rpm more and no more problem in idle.. The needle valvles need to close and no more carburation needed agin.

Same pases me with a saito 120, I knew the solution, and then will all 4 strokes engines.

Wneh some guys contact me in Mexico with same probem in DLE that has problems in idle, I told them thetst the intake , tehy told me whne they tested it their porblem was solved.


Now what is the real problem in some engines??







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RE: PROBLEMS WITH DLE 20CC AND OTHER SMALL GAS ENGINES?? - 11/18/2011 4:51 PM   
Maximiliano Galvez



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Status: offline 		The problem is:

Gas carburetos. Like walbro and DLE (Emaz dle uses now chinese carburetor) Has an amazing working system. It has a demand regulator. It means that carburetor only takes the fuel it needs from the engine vacum.

Cabrs has a pump inside that drain fuel to a chamber. It chamber has a valve that is always closed until carburetor demand fuel. The valve is open when the diafragm senses vacum.

This diafragm ans this valve has same spring and same movement force in a 50cc carb and in a 20cc carb. Until a 20 cc carb has small ventury, the vacum of a 20 cc is small too. May be ventury is proportional for each engine, but vacum force needed is not proportional to open well the valvle in idle.

Thats what I have found. May be Im wrong but is really I have solve this problem with the intake. All my 4 strokes conversion kits includes the intake.


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RE: PROBLEMS WITH DLE 20CC AND OTHER SMALL GAS ENGINES?? - 11/18/2011 6:47 PM   
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RE: PROBLEMS WITH DLE 20CC AND OTHER SMALL GAS ENGINES?? - 11/19/2011 3:20 AM   
Ernie Misner



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Status: offline 		Do they get better fuel economy with this stack?

Thanks again,

Ernie

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RE: PROBLEMS WITH DLE 20CC AND OTHER SMALL GAS ENGINES?? - 11/19/2011 4:10 AM   
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Status: offline 		I'd be interested in purchasing a couple. It seesm MVVS has similar thinking with their 26cc which comes with a velocity stack.

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RE: PROBLEMS WITH DLE 20CC AND OTHER SMALL GAS ENGINES?? - 11/19/2011 4:19 AM   
Ernie Misner



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Status: offline 		This is more than just a velocity stack I think. Max or anyone.......? can someone please draw a (cross section) diagram of what the internal dimensions or flow for this setup looks like?

We know a regular velocity stack is nothing more than an extention. There is some "spit back" expecially with 4-strokes that have a hot cam, and a stack keeps this spit back contained rather than just making a mess around the carb area. This is how better fuel economy is obtained.

Thanks,

Ernie

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RE: PROBLEMS WITH DLE 20CC AND OTHER SMALL GAS ENGINES?? - 11/19/2011 3:33 PM   
captinjohn


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

This is more than just a velocity stack I think. Max or anyone.......? can someone please draw a (cross section) diagram of what the internal dimensions or flow for this setup looks like?

We know a regular velocity stack is nothing more than an extention. There is some "spit back" expecially with 4-strokes that have a hot cam, and a stack keeps this spit back contained rather than just making a mess around the carb area. This is how better fuel economy is obtained.

Thanks,

Ernie

That is a very good point. The last thing we want is fuel spray on a rear intake....it would oil up the wood-work !    Capt,n

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RE: PROBLEMS WITH DLE 20CC AND OTHER SMALL GAS ENGINES?? - 11/19/2011 5:27 PM   
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Status: offline 		I'm still in the learning stage on gassers, but I have come to understand that rear-intake engines use a reed-type valve and that passage is only one-way, like a heart valve. So isn't spray from the carb unlikely?

Just asking.....not trying to pick a fight!

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RE: PROBLEMS WITH DLE 20CC AND OTHER SMALL GAS ENGINES?? - 11/19/2011 6:53 PM   
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Status: offline 		If the reeds don't seal well there will be some....

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RE: PROBLEMS WITH DLE 20CC AND OTHER SMALL GAS ENGINES?? - 11/22/2011 2:50 AM   
Maximiliano Galvez



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ORIGINAL: Antique

If the reeds don't seal well there will be some....


yes in dle it has reed valvles, but in 2 strokes and four strokes small engines gas converted, it works really nice.


Instead a drawing, I cut one in half.
Regards Max

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RE: PROBLEMS WITH DLE 20CC AND OTHER SMALL GAS ENGINES?? - 11/22/2011 3:07 AM   
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Status: offline 		What is the blue part on the back of your carb? And what do the fitting do ? Is it a way to pump fuel/gas.. Thanks Ernie.. I would love to try on of your stacks! I have a homelite 30cc converted on my Taylorcraft.. It has lots of raw gas coming out of the carb at wot! Your the man..

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RE: PROBLEMS WITH DLE 20CC AND OTHER SMALL GAS ENGINES?? - 11/22/2011 3:16 AM   
Maximiliano Galvez



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ORIGINAL: warbird72

What is the blue part on the back of your carb? And what do the fitting do ? Is it a way to pump fuel/gas.. Thanks Ernie.. I would love to try on of your stacks! I have a homelite 30cc converted on my Taylorcraft.. It has lots of raw gas coming out of the carb at wot! Your the man..



The blue part is a plate that is the walbro support of the Saito 180 conversion kit. The fittings are for the fuel pump system. I used it for support the walbro carb and the cut intake

Regards Max

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RE: PROBLEMS WITH DLE 20CC AND OTHER SMALL GAS ENGINES?? - 11/22/2011 4:43 AM   
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Status: offline 		Please forgive my intrusion but wasn't the DLE20's idle problem CDI related? Its programming in particular. I don't own that particular engine but I read about it here and other forums.

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RE: PROBLEMS WITH DLE 20CC AND OTHER SMALL GAS ENGINES?? - 11/22/2011 6:00 AM   
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Status: offline 		As i understand it, A normal velocity stack is a cone shape and does just what the name says, increase the velocity of the air as it tries to squeeze through the narrowing venturi. The faster air mixes with the fuel better and improves the atomization.

A side benefit on some engine designs (namely those with a piston or crankshaft porting) is that when there is a back pulse which would push air/fuel mixture back out of the carb where it would normally be lost, the extra length of the velocity stack works in part to protect that back pulse from the surrounding air flow so that it can be sucked back through the carb and not wasted.

This device looks different because is narrows like a velocity stack but then it opens out. It must create some sort of negative pressure which helps with the fuel metering.

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RE: PROBLEMS WITH DLE 20CC AND OTHER SMALL GAS ENGINES?? - 11/22/2011 9:47 AM   
TimBle


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maximiliano Galvez


quote:

ORIGINAL: Antique

If the reeds don't seal well there will be some....


yes in dle it has reed valvles, but in 2 strokes and four strokes small engines gas converted, it works really nice.


Instead a drawing, I cut one in half.
Regards Max



ah very clever!

Its a venturi with a very pronounced kink line.
I see this cross section is used in the diffusor of Formula 1 cars. Does it allow for very rapid expansion of the gas back to a given pressure and more efficient and consistent filling of the inlet to the carb? this is how the improved idle is acheived?

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RE: PROBLEMS WITH DLE 20CC AND OTHER SMALL GAS ENGINES?? - 11/22/2011 2:12 PM   
AA5BY


 

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Status: offline 		This is interesting as I've previously thought of a velocity stack as beneficial to the side mounted carb that suffered prop wash. It might be that carb throat at altitude has some issue that the velocity stack counters.

It is gracious of Max to share his discovery and provide the means of evaluation by others.

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RE: PROBLEMS WITH DLE 20CC AND OTHER SMALL GAS ENGINES?? - 11/22/2011 10:21 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: doublesixes

Please forgive my intrusion but wasn't the DLE20's idle problem CDI related? Its programming in particular. I don't own that particular engine but I read about it here and other forums.

If you (doublesixes) think the problem is entirely CDI programing....please find the post and copy it or give us a link to the web page you read it on.   Thanks  Capt,n

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