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RE: Nuance - 4/18/2012 10:34 PM   
shannah


 

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Status: offline 		I think these are back in stock at F3A Unlimited. I had several people asking me about that at the Riverside contest. Check with Chris at F3A.

On another topic, I have been trying some different battery combinations and I now see what BJ Park was talking about with respect to overpowering the airframe. My plane grooves really well on the 20C and 25C packs. But the 40C packs (like the SkyLipo 4400 40C) are just too much for it and you have to be very careful about the application of throttle with those type of packs. I use the 40C 4400 in F13 because I like the extra burst of power for things like the rolling loop elements. However, for overall smoothness in P13 I find it hard to beat the feel of the 20-25C pack on my Neu motor with 20.5x14 prop. I can't imagine running a hotter setup than what I am using. Any more power and I think you won't be as smooth.

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RE: Nuance - 4/19/2012 8:03 PM   
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Status: offline 		 Those are really good observations Steve. I was flying the other day and flew the best with my oldest pack. I found the 35 pack to be so powerful it had me looking wild. I think the key is to manage the higher C packs with a seperate throttle curve. Power is however great to have when it's really needed. I have the Plenty Advanced in mine. Holy cow is all I have to say about that!!!
 Yes your correct that the sea container from BJCraft is just getting into the Baltimore docks. Chris should be in posssesion of the huge new inventory of the pattern planes from BJCraft,  Nuance's, Prolog's, Monolog 2M's and the smaller Monolog's in a few days. From what I've heard he only has a limited number of the Nuance's and the demand seems strong for them. Mike


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RE: Nuance - 4/25/2012 6:03 AM   
patternflyer1



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Status: offline 		Weren't we just talking bout this the other day Mike? lol...

Yes a separate throttle curve is the best option for different packs in any plane really. I found that this plane grooves either way if it is a bit more nose heavy. If it's tail heavy as the designer recommends (and it fly's ok like that, not knocking it), then of course it won't fly as good fast. You'll be chasing the tail.

And, I told ya you were gonna love the Advance Mike! haha


C

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RE: Nuance - 4/25/2012 2:23 PM   
mups53


 

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Status: offline 		 I went out last night and couldn't get the motor to run. Ahhh haaa I had my electrical enginneer friend there and he said I had a phasing problem. Low and behold I had pulled the motor to install in my Mystelipitical. I had a drop of gorilla glue fall on one of the plugs. I cleaned it off the exterior of the plug and didn't think it would be a problem. Well it was and now I have a new plug on it and all is good but I blew a beautiful April evening.
 Tail heavy yes it is a bit. I could move the lipo tray forward pretty easily so I'll opt to do that. If I build another one I will mount the rudder in the canopy area.
 One thing you mentioned Chris was the need to move the wing to center the ailerons. Mine needs a pretty significant adjustment. Mickey showed me how the Vanquish has a unique slotted piece for adjusting wings. I'll have to do that soon.
 I'm looking forward to dialing in with this plane. I also have 3 new lipo's I'm testing for PUXFU that Chris needs feedback on ASAP so I'm hoping for some decent weather.
 Mike

< Message edited by mups53 -- 4/25/2012 8:25 PM >


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RE: Nuance - 4/25/2012 8:22 PM   
mups53


 

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Status: offline 		 Here's a crude diagram of the home made wing adjuster

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RE: Nuance - 4/25/2012 8:34 PM   
rcpattern



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Status: offline 		I would really like to see Extreme Flight make those available. I really liked them on my Vanquish. A set of Gators in the front or rear and these on the other would make adjustments very easy.

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RE: Nuance - 4/26/2012 3:25 AM   
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Status: offline 		Mike,
Here's what I made for the front adjusters on my Xigris. I use Gators for the rear adjuster. It worked great and enabled me to dial the wing in within a couple flights. I got the idea from the Vanquish. I started off with countersunk 4-40 flat head screws glued into the ply plate. I couldn't really torque them down like I wanted to so I drilled them out and replaced them with 4-40 blind nuts and slightly oversize washers. The plate itself is 1/8" phenolic.

Verne


quote:

ORIGINAL: mups53

 Here's a crude diagram of the home made wing adjuster






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RE: Nuance - 4/26/2012 3:29 AM   
VerneK


 

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Sounds like another F3A Unlimited accessory to me!!!

Verne


quote:

ORIGINAL: rcpattern

I would really like to see Extreme Flight make those available. I really liked them on my Vanquish. A set of Gators in the front or rear and these on the other would make adjustments very easy.

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RE: Nuance - 4/26/2012 6:17 AM   
shannah


 

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Status: offline 		You'll want to be very careful in moving the CG too far forward on the plane. It was designed for a more rearward CG in order to optimize the flying characteristics for wind and also for ease of rolling type maneuvers. BJ Park said that the tail volume was sized for the aft CG and if you move the CG forward then you may find a lack of tail volume. The tail volume and rearward CG are why it handles the wind so well. I adjusted my throws accordingly and I don't feel that the plane needs to have the CG moved forward. But, my preferences may be different than the next guy. This plane will tend to have a very light feelling so you'll find that you need to fly it a bit slower and keep your elevator and rudder throws dialed back. For snaps I jack up the aileron to max throw and further dial back the elevator and rudder. Overall, I find that it does as he describes in the wind. It's pretty easy to hold heading and I find that I don't really have to fight the wind too much.

I think my CG is somewhere between 260mm and 270mm.

Interestingly enough, BJ says that when he releases the DTFS tapered wing for the plane then you will probably want to move CG forward because this will effectively increase the tail volume.

I'd be curious to see how moving the CG forward affects things on the current design. Let us know how that works out and what the overall flying characteristic is.

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RE: Nuance - 4/26/2012 6:19 AM   
Doug Cronkhite


 

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Status: offline 		I'm really looking forward to seeing BJ's new bipe that's in the works.

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RE: Nuance - 4/26/2012 2:53 PM   
g_mkoch


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Doug Cronkhite

I'm really looking forward to seeing BJ's new bipe that's in the works.


can you post some pics?

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RE: Nuance - 4/26/2012 7:20 PM   
Doug Cronkhite


 

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RE: Nuance - 4/27/2012 9:11 PM   
mups53


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shannah

You'll want to be very careful in moving the CG too far forward on the plane. It was designed for a more rearward CG in order to optimize the flying characteristics for wind and also for ease of rolling type maneuvers. BJ Park said that the tail volume was sized for the aft CG and if you move the CG forward then you may find a lack of tail volume. The tail volume and rearward CG are why it handles the wind so well. I adjusted my throws accordingly and I don't feel that the plane needs to have the CG moved forward. But, my preferences may be different than the next guy. This plane will tend to have a very light feelling so you'll find that you need to fly it a bit slower and keep your elevator and rudder throws dialed back. For snaps I jack up the aileron to max throw and further dial back the elevator and rudder. Overall, I find that it does as he describes in the wind. It's pretty easy to hold heading and I find that I don't really have to fight the wind too much.

I think my CG is somewhere between 260mm and 270mm.

Interestingly enough, BJ says that when he releases the DTFS tapered wing for the plane then you will probably want to move CG forward because this will effectively increase the tail volume.

I'd be curious to see how moving the CG forward affects things on the current design. Let us know how that works out and what the overall flying characteristic is.


 Steve that makes total sense to me. Thanks for sharing that info. Last year I struggled mightily with a Spark Dynamic. I think it was nose heavy and I could never get it to feel like it was grovving. Not even in a staright line. We added Stab fences and they worked well but I'm now convinced that it was a CG thing. OK I can work with that info.
 Overall I'm smiling when I'm flying the Nuance and ask anyone who knows me about how picky I am with planes. I hate most of them.



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RE: Nuance - 4/27/2012 9:12 PM   
mups53


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VerneK

Mike,
Here's what I made for the front adjusters on my Xigris. I use Gators for the rear adjuster. It worked great and enabled me to dial the wing in within a couple flights. I got the idea from the Vanquish. I started off with countersunk 4-40 flat head screws glued into the ply plate. I couldn't really torque them down like I wanted to so I drilled them out and replaced them with 4-40 blind nuts and slightly oversize washers. The plate itself is 1/8" phenolic.

Verne







That's nice Verne. It'll be on my plane tomorrow. Thanks, Mike







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RE: Nuance - 4/27/2012 9:35 PM   
VerneK


 

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Status: offline 		Mike,
If you use blind nuts (I highly recommend it) you'll need to make the ply plate out of 1/8" 5-ply. You can pull blind nuts right through lite ply. I roughed up the ply plate and phenolic with 80-grit sandpaper to give it extra "tooth". It's probably overkill, but I wanted to make sure the adjuster wouldn't slide around under load. Phenolic is pretty slippery stuff unsanded.

Verne


quote:

ORIGINAL: mups53




That's nice Verne. It'll be on my plane tomorrow. Thanks, Mike








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RE: Nuance - 4/29/2012 4:13 AM   
g_mkoch


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Doug Cronkhite

The only pictures are from a stick-plane he posted on his blog on www.bjcraft.com


If you get to see a prototype please post some pics.

Happy Landings
Guillermo

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RE: Nuance - 4/29/2012 2:38 PM   
rmh



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Status: offline 		That stick model looks sorta familiar to me
My son is now flying F3A electric stuff -
after watching and helping - I think I will scratch up one of my own attempts . My old clunky Dalotel with retracts is an 11 lb setup - I don't see why a decent 10 lb setup is not possible.
No bipes tho - just too much fiddling each time out - been there.
Th Osiris models and similar stuff really fly well - probably won't improve anything but want to try a different look.
retracts anyone?

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RE: Nuance - 4/30/2012 2:07 PM   
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Status: offline 		 Question for the experts. Has anyone seen the need in their Nuance's for differential? Also what's the best way to test for it in the air? I'll be honest I forgot. Thanks, Mike
 Steve I checked the CG and it was at 265. It feels OK just very different than what I'm used to. This plane is very good!!


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RE: Nuance - 4/30/2012 2:35 PM   
shannah


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Mike
I can't remember if I have any diff on mine. I'm only 7000 miles away from my transmitter right now otherwise I'd go look at it. I always test it two ways: first I fly at a 45 degree upward angle away from myself and the bang the aileron to full roll and watch to see if it veers same direction or opposite direction to the roll. I test both L and R rolls. The NSRCA trim chart has that test in it and it also tells you whether to increase or decrease the diff based on whether it veers to the same or opposite direction. The other test is to take it into the stratosphere and push into a vertical downline and go to max rate roll and see if it is rolling perfectly axially. I usually do the 45 upline roll test first then the diving roll second.

By the way, I havent looked in a long time but I hope that trim guide is still up on the NSRCA website. It is by far the best guideline out there. It helps to refresh your brain every now and then with the steps. I use it all the time.

As for rolls on the Nuance, it takes very little input. I first found myself over correcting quite a bit. Then I just backed off and also cut my throws down (for me, I fly with kind of hot controls). Now I feel really plugged in with it.

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RE: Nuance - 4/30/2012 2:41 PM   
shannah


 

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Status: offline 		I should also add that you have to watch your throttle mgmt. guys with the 3000 Watt Pletty may have to really dial it back. With my Neu motor I watch it carefully. The only thing I can equate it to is that if you overpower it the airframe seems to cavitate. I know there is no official aero designation for that but too much power takes it out of its groove zone.

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RE: Nuance - 4/30/2012 6:45 PM   
mups53


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shannah

I should also add that you have to watch your throttle mgmt. guys with the 3000 Watt Pletty may have to really dial it back. With my Neu motor I watch it carefully. The only thing I can equate it to is that if you overpower it the airframe seems to cavitate. I know there is no official aero designation for that but too much power takes it out of its groove zone.


 You know the plane pretty well Steve. So far everything you've said about it has been right on. I do however love the extra power when it's needed. For thr most part I have the Plentty Advance motor dialed way down. It's a whole new way of flying. Mike



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RE: Nuance - 5/1/2012 2:03 AM   
shannah


 

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Status: offline 		Yes, you need the power at times. I put in my higher C packs when flying F13 because I feel that the faster throttle response and lower voltage drop off during the flight really comes in handy on things like the rolling loops. But, overall throttle management gets tricky even with an altered throttle curve.

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RE: Nuance - 5/3/2012 4:03 AM   
mups53


 

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Status: offline 		 Mickey was making wing adjusters for his and Bobby's Zigris's so he whipped 2  up for me. Did I ever mention how I have great support here in Chicago?
 Here's some pics. A lot like yours Verne except the blind nuts are inside the fuse. They work very easily. Hopefully I can center the ailerons now. Mike

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RE: Nuance - 5/3/2012 3:28 PM   
rcpattern



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Status: offline 		Mike,

I picked up Chris Moon's company plane to play with and have been flying it the past few days. This is a really nice flying plane.

Arch

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RE: Nuance - 5/3/2012 7:28 PM   
mups53


 

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Status: offline 		 It's an unbelievable plane. Plus it's so well made. No seams in the fuse and a less thant half the price of the really expensive ones. Mike


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