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RE: Nuance - 11/10/2012 11:50 PM   
Silent-AV8R



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Status: offline 		I'm still thinking about a Prolog. One of the things I like about it is how the canopy looks!! Trying to decide between that and a yellow Griffin.

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RE: Nuance - 11/11/2012 2:50 AM   
vquick



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

I'm still thinking about a Prolog. One of the things I like about it is how the canopy looks!! Trying to decide between that and a yellow Griffin.

You can't go wrong with the Prolog i like the Griffin and flew one at the Nats but my only concern with the Griffin is weight the composite wings are heavy a little over 1 pound RTF the prolog wings around 13.5oz RTF will give you more range in battery choice

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RE: Nuance - 11/11/2012 6:03 AM   
Silent-AV8R



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Status: offline 		Definitely leaning towards the Prolog.

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RE: Nuance - 11/11/2012 1:34 PM   
mups53


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: J Lachowski

Hopefully more visible in the air for us old farts


 That's the plan Joe. More visable bolder colors, a new sleeker look with the canopy which is also a slight aero improvemenet and a new further forward UC. 
 It'll take a bit to get the wheels in motion but it'll be in the works soon enough. Mike


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RE: Nuance - 11/11/2012 3:50 PM   
svrcp


 

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Status: offline 		Victor the Griffin that I had at Nat's which you flew wieght in at 4970 as I stated on post #21. This palne had the Himax motor which is a little heavier, and had a Dubro spinn which is heavy. Between motor and spinner one can save a little more wieght.
Silent_AV8r both plane are great plane , I've been flying the Prolog since May it it has not let me down. Opps I did have ESC problem at Nat but had nothing to do with plane. This is a very stable plane in all wind condtions.
Infact I'm getting ready to go out and fly the Griffin some today.
The Nuance is another great plane.

Jr Varela
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RE: Nuance - 11/12/2012 1:48 PM   
mups53


 

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Status: online 		I kind of think the Griffin is the next Integral. An all composite plane painted in the mold. But the Griffin is cheaper and lighter. I can't think of a plane sold in the last 10 years that was as popular as the Integral. Mike


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RE: Nuance - 11/12/2012 10:26 PM   
Doug Cronkhite


 

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Status: offline 		Any chance they'll offer a Prolog v2 ARC? I love the look of the airplane but I REALLY don't care for the color schemes that are popular on today's airplanes. I would really prefer to do my own.

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RE: Nuance - 11/12/2012 10:58 PM   
mups53


 

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Status: online 		 Hey Doug. I'll look into the chance of having a few done ARC. I like the new modern scheme's because the pro's do such a great job. 
 I finished a few planes in the past few years and I agree that it's nice to have a one of a kind but it's a lot of labor. Mike


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RE: Nuance - 11/12/2012 11:27 PM   
TonyF


 

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Status: offline 		Can you lay out exactly what is different between a Prolog v2 and a Nuance? They look the same to me.

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RE: Nuance - 11/13/2012 1:33 AM   
VerneK


 

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Status: offline 		I agree with Doug. I'm already set for a plane this building season, but I know of at least one other guy that expressed interest in a Nuance ARC. It's nice to see a variety of paint schemes at a contest.

Verne


quote:

ORIGINAL: mups53

 Hey Doug. I'll look into the chance of having a few done ARC. I like the new modern scheme's because the pro's do such a great job. 
 I finished a few planes in the past few years and I agree that it's nice to have a one of a kind but it's a lot of labor. Mike



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RE: Nuance - 11/13/2012 1:42 AM   
mups53


 

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Status: online 		Tony the difference is in the wing. The Prolog's wing tips are further towards the front and the wing is more "Edge" like than the Nuance which is close to a straight trailing edge. Also the wing position on the Prolog is 1 inch further back probably because the center of lift on the wing is further forward. The airfoil of the wings seem almost the same and the stab is the same. The rudder on the Prolog is smaller.
 What I've seen having flown both is that the Prolog seems to be slightly more stable than the Nuance but probably about the same as the Nuance with the stab fences. The look in the air is a little different. Both planes are really excellent. I also felt that the new canopy allowed the Prolog to roll almost identically to the Nuance which is the best rolling plane I have ever owned.
 More similar features than not but still a distinction between the two. Maybe the sweep in the Nuance allows for better snaps but I can't say for sure.
 Take a look at this pic and you can see the wings.
 Mike

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RE: Nuance - 11/13/2012 2:12 AM   
shannah


 

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Status: offline 		I think the airfoil on the Prolog is also different than the Nuance. BJ designed the Prolog to help bridge the gap for accomplished fliers coming into pattern. He feels that someone coming over to Pattern from IMAC would feel right at home with the Prolog since it is biased to be a bit more maneuverable. When I flew the Prolog, albeit in the wind, I understood what he was trying to describe.

The Nuance flies like its name implies. It really flies well and responds to very subtle input. It can be finessed for a very nice presentation. My impression was that the Prolog flew very solid and snapped nicely and had a more traditional feeling. I liked the way it flew and felt very comfortable with it. It flies confidently.

I think it is all just minor degrees of variation in the design, but the results yield some very different aircraft.

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RE: Nuance - 11/13/2012 4:48 AM   
TonyF


 

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Status: offline 		OK. But I think the differences are very minor and probably whatever you are feeling is more due to differences in trimming the model then design. But it is nice to have a variety of choices!

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RE: Nuance - 11/13/2012 5:27 AM   
Dave Harmon


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TonyF

OK. But I think the differences are very minor and probably whatever you are feeling is more due to differences in trimming the model then design. But it is nice to have a variety of choices!


I know one thing for sure......just 1/64" trim at the aileron trailing edge....or perhaps less....makes a big difference in the way the Nuance flys.
I fixed my airplane by lowering the trim step to the lowest number and retrimming the ailerons.
It is definately the best airplane I have flown by far.....and I haven't gotten around to putting the stab fences on yet.
The weather has been so good here for the past 2 weeks that I've been flying every day noon till dark and haven't had time to do the fence thing yet.
Of course I've been slobbering all over the new 18mz at the same time....man...what a rig!

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RE: Nuance - 11/13/2012 6:28 AM   
Doug Cronkhite


 

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Status: offline 		I thought the Prolog was also a lot thinner fuse than the Nuance?

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RE: Nuance - 11/13/2012 6:31 AM   
Dave Harmon


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Doug Cronkhite

I thought the Prolog was also a lot thinner fuse than the Nuance?


Hi Doug....I've built both of them now and the fuse's are identical....

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RE: Nuance - 11/13/2012 12:31 PM   
mups53


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TonyF

OK. But I think the differences are very minor and probably whatever you are feeling is more due to differences in trimming the model then design. But it is nice to have a variety of choices!


 Actually Tony it's more than trim. I know the difference and it's enough for it be distinctive. Not a boatload but a difference. Mike


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RE: Nuance - 11/13/2012 1:49 PM   
rcpattern



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Status: online 		Tony,

Having flown both of them quite a bit, I agree with Mike. They do fly differently. I think the Prolog has a more solid feel to it in most conditions, but it does not snap as well as the Nuance. The wing is noticeably different if the two are sitting together. I think the Prolog is a better choice for the lower AMA classes. The Nuance, I think flies Masters better as well as P, and I really like how the Episode feels in F.

Arch

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RE: Nuance - 11/13/2012 1:54 PM   
mups53


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shannah

I think the airfoil on the Prolog is also different than the Nuance. BJ designed the Prolog to help bridge the gap for accomplished fliers coming into pattern. He feels that someone coming over to Pattern from IMAC would feel right at home with the Prolog since it is biased to be a bit more maneuverable. When I flew the Prolog, albeit in the wind, I understood what he was trying to describe.

The Nuance flies like its name implies. It really flies well and responds to very subtle input. It can be finessed for a very nice presentation. My impression was that the Prolog flew very solid and snapped nicely and had a more traditional feeling. I liked the way it flew and felt very comfortable with it. It flies confidently.

I think it is all just minor degrees of variation in the design, but the results yield some very different aircraft.

 I'll put the two wings together when I get a chance and see Steve. I think you hit the nail on the head with the difference in the way the two planes fly. I also think the Prolog's speed envelope is different than the Nuance. The Nuance flying a little slower but like Tony stated that could be just as much the way you set it up and prefer to fly it. Almost any plane can be trimmed and flown to the style that fits the individual.
 The main reason I and Chris felt the need for a V2 Prolog is esthetic. I listened to the comments about the plane and thought this was an improvement albiet a minor one. Mike



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RE: Nuance - 11/13/2012 2:03 PM   
mups53


 

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Status: online 		 Arch if we could ever find a plane that did everything perfectly we could stop this insane design war that we have now. Seems like everything is a trade off.
 I have this new Mysteliptical that snaps better than any plane I have ever seen. It's unbelievable but it doesn't have the Mack Truck feel in the air that the Prolog gives me. To bad it's not bowling where you can pick the right ball for every shot. I'll have to rely on pilot skill to find the right comprimise.
 Also to clear another thing up. The actual mold used on the Prolog and Nuance fuse are the same. The canopy was the difference and the rudder. On the Episode the difference is in the tail. The Episode has a cutout for a counter balanced rudder. That's why the canopy's were interchangable.  Mike


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RE: Nuance - 11/13/2012 4:03 PM  1 votes
TonyF


 

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Status: offline 		Please keep in mind that I am only commenting on the Prolog V.2 mentioned here. I am not comparing the original Prolog to the Nuance. I can see where they could have significantly different flying characteristics.

But I'd be willing to bet that with thorough trimming and set-up I could make the Nuance feel exactly like what you say the Prolog V.2 feels like. Vice versa, I could make the Prolog V.2 feel like what you think the Nuance feels like. My Nuance is as solid as a rock and is not a slow model. It took me a while but it now snaps beautifully. Now the Episode is significantly different in design and will have different characteristics. I can see the original Prolog being different then the Nuance. With the canopy differences the distribution of lateral area was significantly different. But a Prolog with the Nuance canopy on it is going to be so close that it's in the "noise" with set-up and trimming being the determining factor. But as I said more options are usually better for everyone. If nothing else this gives customers another color scheme choice.

I guess what I'm really trying to say here is that while design is important, minor differences are usually just that, minor. It's far more about what you do with the model that makes the real differences. It is extremely easy to make a great design fly poorly with bad set-up and trimming. Much tougher to make a marginal design fly great. I've seen poor choices in what servos are used destroy a great design.

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RE: Nuance - 11/13/2012 5:31 PM   
mups53


 

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Status: online 		 Agreed for the most part Tony. It's pretty amazing that we have so many choices on the market today versus a few years ago when we didn't. Mike


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RE: Nuance - 11/13/2012 6:34 PM   
TonyF


 

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Status: offline 		I also agree with you, Mike. What is really great is that with the Prolog, Nuance and Episode you can get such great designs with excellent quality for such a good price.

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RE: Nuance - 11/13/2012 8:39 PM   
MTK



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quote:

ORIGINAL: TonyF

I also agree with you, Mike. What is really great is that with the Prolog, Nuance and Episode you can get such great designs with excellent quality for such a good price.


Fellas,
Sounds to me like it's a common fuse with different wings. Why buy 3 "different" planes? Why not just get the wings or (God forbid) build your own wings? Or even better, build wings to fit your own design? The wing tube is really elementary to move to a location of your own choosing....

One of the fellas at the club field has a nuance and I was surprised to see a composite fuse offering. I thought these were balsa and ply fuses covered in Wrinkle Kote. Mike, how much for the fuse only, or is that even an option?

And besides, whatever happened to Gee Whiz I, Gee Whiz II....etc.


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RE: Nuance - 11/13/2012 8:46 PM   
snowman44


 

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Status: offline 		I now have over 100 filghts on the Prolog and I just love the way this airplane feels in the air.
I was able to fly Daves Nuance probably 20-30 flights while getting the Prolog ready to go. I like the way the Prolog tracks without the need for fences but the Nuance definately has the upper hand in the rolling department.
If this canopy upgrade improves the roll on the Prolog that would be great but if not, I still think the Prolog rolls just fine and I like the look of the new canopy. Either way I win !!

Would the wing position on the Prolog vs the Nuance, have anything to do with needing or not needing fences?

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