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RE: Nuance - 1/16/2013 6:14 PM   
patternflyer1



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Status: offline 		I would guess less drag with the 90 degree. The more drag you induce in the tail, I would guess it would appear to stabilize the tail more.. I don't think I am a fan of inducing drag if we don't have to just to help with stability.

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RE: Nuance - 1/16/2013 6:30 PM   
F3A Unlimited



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Status: online 		BJ says the 95 degree will make the rudder less sensitive around neutral. I have not tried the fences yet so can't say how they feel between the 2 options.

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RE: Nuance - 1/16/2013 6:31 PM   
mups53


 

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Status: offline 		95 degrees provides more drag and increases the yaw stability.
 I've been told it has some adverse effects which I'm not familiar with.
 Dave Snow and Lockhart are the masters of trying devices on their planes to fix things. I'm not an expert.
 I've had the fences on 2 planes one was the Spark Dynamic the other a Mysteliptical. I have and had them at 90 degrees or parallel with the centerline of the top of the fuse.
 I found them to improve the stability of the plane in the yaw stability and tracking.
 Mike


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RE: Nuance - 1/16/2013 7:31 PM   
rcpattern



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Status: offline 		Having played with the fences at various angles, I felt that there is minimal difference between 90 and 95. I wont say there is zero difference, but there is minimal difference I could feel with identical fences. I could tell a difference in making fences larger at each angle, but it was very difficult to see a major difference between the same fences at varying angles. Now, to preface that, I was unable to test them on back to back flights on the same day as I had to go home and change them, but that is just my personal findings on the Nuance with stab fences. They do obviously work, as there is a significant difference with them on, and with them off.

Arch

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RE: Nuance - 1/16/2013 8:30 PM   
rgreen24



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Status: online 		once the best way to install them, double sided tape?

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RE: Nuance - 1/16/2013 9:18 PM   
rcpattern



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Status: offline 		I used silicon rubber glue. Easy to put on. Easy to take off.

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RE: Nuance - 1/17/2013 1:34 AM   
nonstoprc



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Status: offline 		I use two pieces of white masking tape, cut to the width of the fence plus extra 1/16" on either side. Put the tape on stab, top and bottom, then glue the fence onto the tape.

Arch,

Many thanks for showing the usefulness of the stab fences on FB. I tried it and like it a lot!

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RE: Nuance - 1/17/2013 1:35 AM   
rgreen24



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RE: Nuance - 1/19/2013 4:17 AM   
TonyF


 

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Status: offline 		I've been flying the DTFS wings on my Nuance now for a while, so I thought I'd share my results.

After flying the wings for a while and trying all the stuff that was mentioned before like moving the CG forward and changing the expo settings, I was still not entirely happy with how the model was flying. I got out on a calm day and really started looking at how the model was tracking, particularly in yaw. With the stock wings I had added stab fences and that helped. But with the DTFS wings it seemed like there was not enough yaw stability. I don't know why, but after carefully watching what the model was doing, it seemed like it was OK in outside maneuvers but seemed to wander a bit in inside maneuvers. So I added additional fences, but just on the bottom of the stab. My reasoning is that fences below the stab are more effective in insides then in outsides.

I've flown them enough now to decide that they have improved the model. The DTFS wings are better in snaps and in spins. Also, it seems like I can do the rolling circles and loops along with the knife edge loops better with these wings. I don't know why, it just seems that way. Another benefit is that these wings have less drag so the speed is higher and I'm using about 300mAh less per pattern.

I still have it in the back of my head that many models these days are lacking in yaw stability. I think that we need to start looking at larger fins and distributing the fin area lower in the model. But stab fences do a very good job of adding that area without unnecessary drag.

Keep in mind I'm flying the Contra drive so a single prop may be different. But I still feel even with a single prop the fences will help and cannot hurt.

Here are a few pics of the fences on my model.

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RE: Nuance - 1/19/2013 5:27 AM   
patternflyer1



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Status: offline 		Good info Tony. I was going to do 2 per side to test. I thought maybe 4 would be more effective. And I could always remove 2. Of course, flying a single prop.. But I did just get a Neu, so who knows. Maybe some day I will win the lottery and have 2 props. Haha..

Appreciate the info and pics.. See ya at your contest. Even though I don't have a classic plane.

C

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RE: Nuance - 1/20/2013 11:53 AM   
cartercg


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Tony and others,

The effect of the stab fences is very interesting. I've been flying my Citrin bipe for a while, and while it is a pleasure to fly, I find it does not have the directional stability of some of the mono planes I have flown, like the peridot and valiant. Moving the cg forward has not had a major impact. I find the plane can loose heading more easily, especially during loops, and in particular outside loops. The stab on the citrin is positioned fairly low. I wonder if the lower wing is blanking the stab when doing outside loops. I don't want to highjack this thread, but do you think that stab fences could improve this, and are worth a try? I am running a standard single prop setup.

Regards
Clint

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RE: Nuance - 1/21/2013 12:45 AM   
TonyF


 

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Status: offline 		Clint,

It would be my guess that stab fences would help your problem. It sounds like you're having a yaw stability issue and fences would help that issue. At the least they can't hurt.

I've gotten more flying in with my Nuance and I'm getting quite happy with how it's flying. It is much better in the reversing spins now and the snaps are definitely better. I'm still playing with throws and expos to get it better. BTW, my CG with the canopy off is maybe 1/8" in front of the tube center. I'm going to need the less swept LG legs as it is now a little tippy on the gear. Now if I can just get better at F-13 I'll be good to go! It take a month off of flying it and I get rusty quick!

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RE: Nuance - 1/21/2013 3:17 AM   
shannah


 

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Status: offline 		My experience has been pretty similar to Tony's but I use the standard drive on mine. My issue with the yaw stability is a bit different. I noticed that it consistently wanted to yaw to the right when pulling out of a downline but never yawed to the left. I also had the same observation as Tony that it didn't seem to have this yaw when pushing out of a downline. Part of this issue may be thrust related (maybe I need more right thrust so that the rudder isn't taking over on the power off downlines), but it is still a bit odd that it does it on pulls and not on pushes. The yaw is pretty predictable and is the only odd thing I've noticed. I deal with it by using rudder as necessary, but I think I'll try the fences on the bottom of the stab.

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RE: Nuance - 1/21/2013 6:31 AM   
cartercg


 

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Status: offline 		Hi guys,

Thanks for the feedback. My bipe is trimmed hands off for up and down lines, and in calm conditions it holds its line very well once on an up line. I'm not totally sure what is meant by "yaw stability", but what I experience is that in a cross wind if I pull or push onto a vertical up line the plane will yaw into the wind (as it should, but I will naturally need to help set the correct angle of yaw), but it will not hold that yaw angle if I leave the rudder input. If tends to over correct I.e. will yaw into the wind more than is required. The more it yaws the worse it gets. This means I need to put in a little opposite rudder to hold a straight vertical up line. It is pronounced on the up lines but I am sure is also occurring on 45s and level flight, but not too the same extent. Also the planes flies at a higher angle of yaw in cross winds (to hold the line) as compared to my previous models. From the threads on the topic it seems that "yaw stability" is also associated with the plane skidding, which I understanding would result in needing a higher angle of yaw to hold the line. It is especially noticeable when the plane gets slower, such as during landing. It may be that these characteristics are naturally associated with a bipe, but I wonder if stab fences will help. I'm going to make some up and temporarily install them to see what effect they have. Any recommendations on where on the stab they should be installed? I see the nuance fences sold by f3a unlimited are installed near the tips of the stab. But Tony has installed them near the mid point of the stab. I'm running a single prop setup, and am going to try installing them near the midpoint of the stab....unless you have any alternative suggestions. Thanks for the help.

Regards
Clint

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RE: Nuance - 1/21/2013 8:24 AM   
patternflyer1



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Status: offline 		Perhaps moving your cg forward would help also. I have seen that type of yaw when I flew more tail heavy Clint.

As for stab fence positioning, mine are going on at just over mid stab. I took the stabs off, traced them with pencil onto a piece of graph paper, drew what i wanted for the outside of the fence, then sized it down on my printer to 85 percent. I tried 70 all the way to 90 in 5 percent increments but settled on 85. I could scan it in and post it but I think my stabs are Episode stabs so they might not be the same.

Steve,

Most electric (outrunner) planes that I have had needed the left rudder to low throttle mix for down lines at first until I added more right thrust. I think tony and well, myself are talking about yaw in our pull or push on a downline. Most noticable with the new wing. More noticable in a pull than push. I feel the difference when doing a push is because there is more vertical stab under the plane than when upright. So I think tony is on to something with his second set of lower stab fences. I made mine today and made only one set, but I made the lower one much larger. Still have to mount them, but they are covered and ready to install. I almost want to wait until I have the Neu installed so I can see the difference from the Pletty.

Chris

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RE: Nuance - 2/6/2013 1:21 PM   
wagen017


 

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Status: offline 		I could buy a Nuance unbuild and was wondering if there is any difference with those that currently ship from the factory.

Volkert

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RE: Nuance - 2/6/2013 1:24 PM   
ram_z



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Status: offline 		I think that the only different is the new landing gear which is less swap...

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RE: Nuance - 2/10/2013 9:41 PM   
wagen017


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks, good to know.

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RE: Nuance - 2/22/2013 8:51 PM   
OhD


 

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Status: offline 		Does anyone know what the built in right thrust is (in degrees) on the Nuance? I'll probably use a Contra and will need to take out the right thrust. I assume the down thrust should stay the same?

Jim O

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RE: Nuance - 2/22/2013 8:56 PM   
danamania


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OhD

Does anyone know what the built in right thrust is (in degrees) on the Nuance? I'll probably use a Contra and will need to take out the right thrust. I assume the down thrust should stay the same?

Jim O


The "Nuance 170 technical data" table in the designer's report lists "Thrust: R 2.5-3 degree / Up 0-1 degree."



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RE: Nuance - 2/22/2013 10:01 PM   
OhD


 

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RE: Nuance - 2/24/2013 11:30 PM   
shannah


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Jim,

If you don't already have a the Nuance, you can get it pre configured for a contra from the factory.

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RE: Nuance - 3/21/2013 3:22 AM   
underdw


 

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Status: offline 		Does anybody have any scraps of the Nuance Pink and Aqua covering material that they would be willing to mail to me? Only need a 2x12" strip of each.
(I borrowed a set of DTFS wings from a friend and some of the trim peeled off in flight. Would like to fix it before I return them PM me please.
Thanks, Dan

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RE: Nuance - 4/11/2013 6:18 AM   
Andy P.



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From: Leicester, , UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		I just got my Nuance finished, a fantastic flying airplane.

Im running the E Start C50 14XL motor on a PT 21 x 14E and the power is unbelievable. Im pretty settled on a 245mm CG from the canopy rear, the airplane feels very locked in yet extremely light to fly at this setting.

Many thanks to Chris at www.bondaero.co.uk for getting these in to Europe!
Regards,

Andy.

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< Message edited by Andy P. -- 4/11/2013 8:34 AM >

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RE: Nuance - 4/11/2013 9:42 PM   
BHolsten


 

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Status: offline 		Here is my Nuance via Archie stafford,..Thanks' Archie.

Thank's to F3A Unlimited for having all the things I needed to complete my plane, great support. To BJ Craft for a great plane, even though it's not new, it's new to me..

I tried to post pic's but the site times out and fails to load,...I added some light blue and yellow, later on I will remove the pink and add Orange, yellow and blue in place of the pink.

Here is the list:

Futaba 14 MZ
R5014-G3 RX (R6008 FASST issues)
Elevator: Futaba 9650 mini (2)
Ailerons: Futaba 9350 (2)
Rudder: Savox SC- 1232-SG (1)

Castle Pheonix 80 HV (F3A Unlimited)
Hacker Q-80-14XS (F3A Unlimited)
Q80 nose mount kit (F3A Unlimited)
APC 21x14 (PT 21x14 L) (F3A Unlimited)
True Turn Turbo cool "blue" 2.75 FAI (F3A Unlimited)
Tech Aero dual regulators w/ switch (F3A Unlimited)
F3A Unlimited 900mah Rx lipo (F3A Unlimited)
Seacraft servo arms (F3A Unlimited)
Seacraft ball links (F3A Unlimited)

Weight with Zippy compact 25C-5000 (Hobby King USA) ready to fly.

4883grams w/ a PT 21x14EL
4935grams w/ a APC 21x14


Since this plane has over or near 300 flights, I found some maintenance things to watch out for, nothing major.

The tabs on the stabs, two were de-laminating from the root rib (right side) where the screw goes though. I made doublers like I did on my 39% Radiowave several years back.
Make sure the formers are still glued to the fuse good ( one was seperated). Had a few areas where the fiberglass was separating from the balsa on the inside near the phenolic tube area, thin CA and a baggie, rub it back in. That was it....... These planes are built light and we fly them hard in all sorts of conditions, so remember to look over the plane, even take the stabs off and check them once in a while.I also, tightened up the tube by using clear Mono-Kote cut in 1/4 strips and spirial wrapped it like a cand cane stripe, heated it with the iron. Worked great, usually I would use thin CA and sand to fit.

I added a 1/8 strip under the entire area the canopy sits on, as the balsa sides do not go all the way up and the top corners were buckling, easy fix. I will post pic's when the system lets me..

****NOTE TEAM FUTABA ON THE WINGS WILL SAY "GO TEAM FUTABA" for now it's staying,..maybe one day.*****
bholsten

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< Message edited by BHolsten -- 4/13/2013 2:59 PM >

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