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RE: Nuance - 6/16/2012 1:44 PM   
TonyF


 

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Status: offline 		I measured mine after a flight and it was at 148. But that was on a 95 degree day. And in F not C. I think it should be cooler so I'll do some baffling.

I did get the correct ratio and props on it for today so I'll see how that works.

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RE: Nuance - 6/16/2012 1:53 PM   
mups53


 

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Status: offline 		Tony how did it come out on weights with the Contra? Thanks, Mike


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RE: Nuance - 6/16/2012 2:28 PM   
pippy


 

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Status: offline 		Steve Neu says between 120 to 140 F (49 to 60 C) is normal for an F3A plane, so more airflow is the answer. A baffle to bring air to the rear of the motor is working for me with larger opening in the front of the fus.

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RE: Nuance - 6/17/2012 5:59 AM   
TonyF


 

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Status: offline 		Mike, I just got the good scale from Mike Greear. The complete airframe minus the motor battery is 3,622 grams. This is including the 730mAh RC battery. I am currently using E-Flite 5,000mAh packs which are a little on the heavy side at 1,367 grams for the complete pack. So that makes it 4989 RTF. The Neu packs I used at the Nats last year weigh 1199 grams, so with those it's 4821 grams.

I got 4 flights in today before the wind and the heat (100 degrees) became more then I wanted to stay. I checked the gear ratio I had in it and I am using the 10.15. I put a 22" pitch cut to 21" dia. on the rear and a 20" pitch cut to 21.5" dia, along with shaping the tips like an APC. I was pretty happy with the pace and the power in the wind. Made a few more changes to throws and expos and I'm liking it more and more.

Just one thing, really watch leaving it in a vehicle on a hot day! When I pulled it out of the van later in the day the fuse had dimpled in the back where it had been resting in my cradle. I was able to get it out with some careful heat from a heat gun, then hitting it with a water soaked rag. But the fuse is very light so be careful!

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RE: Nuance - 6/18/2012 12:31 PM   
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Anybody opting for a CG outside of the 265-270mm (from TE) "sweet spot" mentioned above in this thread? I think I got the last one from F3AU and have started my build with the Advance. With a few parts on the way in this week, any flight report and/or build updates most appreciated! Thanks.


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RE: Nuance - 6/20/2012 2:44 PM   
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Status: offline 		 Dana, I can't even experiment with a CG that's more forward because mine won't roll on the grass without diving in on the prop. I hope at some point BJ Craft gets the UC more forward on the plane. Mike


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RE: Nuance - 6/20/2012 3:06 PM   
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Status: offline 		Got it. Right now, my plan is to forgo the stock gear and install replacement gear from the start.  Hoping that less rake will solve the problem.  Thoughts?

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RE: Nuance - 6/20/2012 3:32 PM   
pippy


 

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Status: offline 		I changed my undercarriage to an Oxai one from my Aries model. Works really well as it is about 2 inches more forward.

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RE: Nuance - 6/20/2012 3:43 PM   
danamania


 

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Status: offline 		If I remember correctly, that would be a rake of 1-1 1/2" or so which would suggest that any replacement legs 8" or so tall would work. Thx!

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RE: Nuance - 6/20/2012 4:36 PM   
mups53


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: danamania

If I remember correctly, that would be a rake of 1-1 1/2" or so which would suggest that any replacement legs 8" or so tall would work. Thx!

 Let me know which ones you use please so I can do the same. Mike


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RE: Nuance - 6/20/2012 5:13 PM   
Dave Harmon


 

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Status: offline 		I tried to remove the blemish from the clearcoat caused by the shipping bag....I tried Windex....almost everything I could think of other than clearcoat rubbing compound.
Then I tried methanol....this really works.
Get a paper towel sloppy wet and start rubbing the area....then before it dries wipe with a soft paper towel...I like VIVA because it actually absorbs instead of just pushing around whatever you are wiping.
I have a large stock from soaking up oil....kaff...
Anyway.....the blemishes go away and stay gone.
I didnt bother to do the white areas because they dont show the marks...the colored areas clean up nicely and seem to shine more too.

I'm using an Advance motor so I cut a piece of FR4 for the front mount and the rear mounting tabs.
I used Hysol to hold it all together.
I used Hysol once before on a Partner and it worked very well.....this stuff won't pop off like hobby epoxies.
I dorked my E-Valiant and the firewall came out of the nose clean.....the epoxy just popped off the side of the fuse even after I had sanded it and cleaned with acetone before gluing.
I had used a very popular 30 minuite epoxy sold in hobby shops.
Anyway.....I'm using Hysol from here on in.
If anyone needs the details on where to get this stuff at an affordable price....shoot me a PM.

I ground out the hatch latch......and installed a "Best" latch.
Usually F3A/U has these but is out of stock now.....I got a couple last week from Atlanta Hobby.
This works slick....got one on the Gaudius too.

If anyone wants an undamaged set of Valiant wings, stabs, rudder, gear, canopy and pants....lemme know.....I have everything except the fuse.....arrrgh

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RE: Nuance - 6/20/2012 11:36 PM   
mups53


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Harmon

I tried to remove the blemish from the clearcoat caused by the shipping bag....I tried Windex....almost everything I could think of other than clearcoat rubbing compound.
Then I tried methanol....this really works.
Get a paper towel sloppy wet and start rubbing the area....then before it dries wipe with a soft paper towel...I like VIVA because it actually absorbs instead of just pushing around whatever you are wiping.
I have a large stock from soaking up oil....kaff...
Anyway.....the blemishes go away and stay gone.
I didnt bother to do the white areas because they dont show the marks...the colored areas clean up nicely and seem to shine more too.

I'm using an Advance motor so I cut a piece of FR4 for the front mount and the rear mounting tabs.
I used Hysol to hold it all together.
I used Hysol once before on a Partner and it worked very well.....this stuff won't pop off like hobby epoxies.
I dorked my E-Valiant and the firewall came out of the nose clean.....the epoxy just popped off the side of the fuse even after I had sanded it and cleaned with acetone before gluing.
I had used a very popular 30 minuite epoxy sold in hobby shops.
Anyway.....I'm using Hysol from here on in.
If anyone needs the details on where to get this stuff at an affordable price....shoot me a PM.

I ground out the hatch latch......and installed a "Best" latch.
Usually F3A/U has these but is out of stock now.....I got a couple last week from Atlanta Hobby.
This works slick....got one on the Gaudius too.

If anyone wants an undamaged set of Valiant wings, stabs, rudder, gear, canopy and pants....lemme know.....I have everything except the fuse.....arrrgh

Dave is isopropyl alcohol and methanal the same thing? Thanks for that tip. I'm putting a Prolog together and it suffers the same problem with the marks from the plastic bag. The plane is for my Protege Brandon. Thanks, Mike


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RE: Nuance - 6/21/2012 12:56 AM   
Silent-AV8R



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quote:

ORIGINAL: mups53

Dave is isopropyl alcohol and methanal the same thing?


Methanol and Isopropyl alcohol are NOT the same thing.

This is methyl alcohol (methanol):

http://webbook.nist.gov/cgi/cbook.cgi?ID=67-56-1

This is Isopropyl Alcohol:

http://webbook.nist.gov/cgi/cbook.cgi?ID=67630

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RE: Nuance - 6/21/2012 2:58 AM   
Dave Harmon


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R


quote:

ORIGINAL: mups53

Dave is isopropyl alcohol and methanal the same thing?


Methanol and Isopropyl alcohol are NOT the same thing.

This is methyl alcohol (methanol):

http://webbook.nist.gov/cgi/cbook.cgi?ID=67-56-1

This is Isopropyl Alcohol:

http://webbook.nist.gov/cgi/cbook.cgi?ID=67630


Mike....Silent is correct.....not the same stuff....methanol is the main ingrediant of glow fuel.
Don't put mixed fuel on the fuselage though.....that fuel has nitro and oil in it.
I don't think the paint on the Nuance is nitro proof...at least the base coat/clear coat I have use before is not fuel proof.
You might try denatured alcohol if you cant find any methanol.
Speed shops and perhaps some hobby shops might have straight methanol if they mix fuel.
If you have any FAI fuel you could try that....it is supposed to have only oil and methanol in it...nothing else....

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RE: Nuance - 6/21/2012 5:13 AM   
underdw


 

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Status: offline 		What are guys using for wheels? The skinny little plastic-hub wheels that came with my plane look like they'll stand up to 1 takeoff and maybe 1 good landing.
All the other wheels I have in my stash are a bit wider and will probably rub on the narrow wheel pants.
Thanks, Dan

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RE: Nuance - 6/21/2012 5:38 AM   
TonyF


 

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Status: offline 		Stock wheels are working just fine for me. But I do fly off pavement.

I am still very early in the trimming process but my CG is on the wing tube. That is quite a bit forward from the recommended location.

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RE: Nuance - 6/21/2012 5:47 AM   
Dave Harmon


 

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Status: offline 		Tony...does it still want to nose over on pavement with the c/g at that point?

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RE: Nuance - 6/21/2012 8:50 AM   
danamania


 

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Status: offline 		The wing tube on mine runs appx 280-300mm from TE.  Balancing there is really different from the design notes, etc.  Interesting and different, how does it fly for you there?

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RE: Nuance - 6/21/2012 12:49 PM   
rcpattern



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Status: offline 		Interesting Tony says that, as I am not far behind that point. My C/G is WELL in front of the recommended location as well. I ended up creating a flaperon/elevator mix for takeoff and landings that help keep the tail on the ground. On pavement, this would not be an issue as all, but on grass I just have to be very careful. I start the takeoff roll very softly with full elevator to keep the tail on the ground. Once it is rolling it isn't an issue. I was able to put mine on the bench on Monday night and I'm up to about 280ish on my C/G. I really like the plane there.

Arch

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RE: Nuance - 6/21/2012 1:53 PM   
TonyF


 

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Status: offline 		On pavement I have seen no issues on take-off or landing. In fact, it is very good. I suspect if you change to a wider wheel and wheel pant for grass you would have a lot less of a nose-over issue. I think the narrow wheel that comes with the model is more of the problem.

I only have 20 flights on mine so I don't want to say that where I have my CG is the best way to go. But so far I really like it. When I have tried to move it back I didn't like it. But that doesn't mean if I try it again and combine it with some better throws and expos that I might not like the rearward CG. I usually am not fully pleased with how a model is working until I have tried a lot of stuff. And that usually takes 100 flights or so. Even then I'm often still trying stuff.

Right now the biggest problem I am having flying it is seeing it well. It has been very bright and sunny out here the last few days and my eyes now don't handle that well. I'm having a hard time seeing the wings when flying coming towards me and sometimes away from me. I just finished painting the landing gear to see if that will help. I may have to make other changes to the scheme if that doesn't help me out enough.

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RE: Nuance - 6/21/2012 2:14 PM   
mups53


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TonyF

On pavement I have seen no issues on take-off or landing. In fact, it is very good. I suspect if you change to a wider wheel and wheel pant for grass you would have a lot less of a nose-over issue. I think the narrow wheel that comes with the model is more of the problem.

I only have 20 flights on mine so I don't want to say that where I have my CG is the best way to go. But so far I really like it. When I have tried to move it back I didn't like it. But that doesn't mean if I try it again and combine it with some better throws and expos that I might not like the rearward CG. I usually am not fully pleased with how a model is working until I have tried a lot of stuff. And that usually takes 100 flights or so. Even then I'm often still trying stuff.

Right now the biggest problem I am having flying it is seeing it well. It has been very bright and sunny out here the last few days and my eyes now don't handle that well. I'm having a hard time seeing the wings when flying coming towards me and sometimes away from me. I just finished painting the landing gear to see if that will help. I may have to make other changes to the scheme if that doesn't help me out enough.

 Hey Tony our eyes must be similar because it's been a new problem for me this year. I've been to the eye doctor 2 times to see what can be done. It's by far the worst problem I've ever had to deal with in my flying career. At a certain point I'm just going to have to take the best pair of glasses and learn to cope.
 I have had some success with a pair of fit over sun glasses called HD Vision.
http://www.amazon.com/Vision-WrapArounds-Wrap-Around-Sunglasses/dp/B002FJ3TSY
 They seem to brighten up everything and really make the plane's colors stand out.
 Mike


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RE: Nuance - 6/21/2012 2:18 PM   
danamania


 

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Status: offline 		Arch, Tony, thanks.  What wing incidence is working for these fwd CGs?  And how do you find the rudder feel/authority?  Mr. Park's notes make a point about his tail area calculations related to his back CG concept, the implication that something might be lost moving CG forward.  Could be something lost in translation too, or my understanding of it LOL, but it stands to reason that the stock shallow incidence would have to change.  I guess this is also not an issue on Tony's Contra-drive Nuance? 

The last of the parts needed to complete should arrive by Monday (including some alternate gear legs to try) so time to hone in on an initial CG. Will try with fixed incidence first to see how I find it. At Sportsman/intermediate level, no need for snappy snaps anyway.  If I really can't live with it, will have to go for Gators, I guess. Anyone else with stick time have updated flight reports? Thanks as always!


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RE: Nuance - 6/21/2012 4:04 PM   
rcpattern



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Status: offline 		Dana,

I will have to measure my incidence as I have been playing with it. I'm significantly more positive than I started and what the plane comes with.

Tony/Mike,

It's not just you guys. I don't know if it is the scheme, or just the shape of the plane, but with wings level, it is hard sometimes to figure out if it is truly on line in yaw. I've caught myself a few times thinking I was tracking straight, when I was actually coming in or out.

Arch

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RE: Nuance - 6/21/2012 4:23 PM   
danamania


 

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Status: offline 		Will be interesting to sort out that yaw issue as visual or aerodynamic: in other words, Contra-drive notwithstanding, is there enough "tail volume" by design for a true track with A CG forward of 270 from TE?  All this speculation from my reading of "Designer's Report about Nuance 170." It reads like there are limits to what can be achieved with a forward CG without trade-offs Mr. Park characterizes as "dull phenomena." Could this translate to lack of rudder authority? Or hunting for heading (single prop motor config where P-force is a non-issue)? All that I read there resists going too forward with CG and he even suggests other airframes for this forward feel, etc. Yikes! I hope I like this thing! What a nuisance LOL!

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RE: Nuance - 6/21/2012 5:10 PM   
rcpattern



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Status: offline 		Dana,

In my experience the plane hunted with the C/G aft. It had a VERY slow speed window with which it was happy. Moving the C/G forward made the plane much more stable at a wider speed range. I can still do a knife edge loop on low rates, so I don't think it has affected rudder authority. I know Andrew ran his C/G fairly far forward as well with no issues. I have no idea how Mr. Park flies the plane as tail heavy as he likes, unless he flies VERY slow. Even then, I just didn't like how it felt. I was slowly sneaking up on it, but just wasn't completely happy, and then about 2 weeks ago, I moved my packs over 1" forward on a flight, just to see what happened and I really liked the result. Even a few others who were watching said the plane looked much more locked. I think let several people fly my plane that had flown the original one Chris Moon had with the aft C/G and they all agreed it was a totally different plane.

Arch

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