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RE: Freedom of speech only for a select few in the clas... - 11/19/2011 6:07 PM   
a1pcfixer



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ORIGINAL: piper_chuck

Let's see if I understand this right. Instead of using the standard member tools and following the forum guidelines, you are suggesting that it's OK to waste the time of two VERY BUSY people to handle day-to-day issues that moderators are in place to deal with? 



No, I'm saying that the 'Report' does very little as already noted!

If needed, send your complaint up the ladder, part of their job is to deal with users AND staff not doing the right thing.

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RE: Freedom of speech only for a select few in the clas... - 11/19/2011 6:17 PM   
Roguedog



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quote:


I sent a PM to RCKen. I'm sure he'll take action, but can't say whether it'll be public or private with just the affected parties.

Thanks for that and for posting the contact info. Had i been able to find that info I definitly would have pursued that avenue before starting this thread.

quote:


RCU is an online community and a business, but it is not a democracy. The rules are set by the owners and enforced by moderators. However, moderators are far from being supreme leaders. They are bound by the rules and supervised by several levels of people above them. While you might encounter biases among individual moderators, their actions are subject to review and, if necessary, correction.

Bear in mind that public campaigns to stir up additional discontent (fanning the flames, pouring gasoline on a fire, derrogatory comments about other members, etc) does not cast a person. Such posts are more likely to lead to corrective action against the poster rather than their targets.

Thanks Piper Chuch for posting this. I do realize that RCU is a business. I posted this in as a final last straw for me as I believe the complaint mechanism is broke here somehow. I figured the way it was going the post wouldn't have been up for this long anyway.

So quite surprised that I went this far.

I will wait to see what happens next. 



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RE: Freedom of speech only for a select few in the clas... - 11/19/2011 6:32 PM   
Roguedog



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ORIGINAL: JohnFH

Being new to Classic Pattern, is this thread any indication as to what a CPA or SPA contest or get together is like?

I wouldn't think so. Clubs will allways have there issues. This particular thread is a rare phenomena from what I have observed here  and I'm sorry for that.

Last thing I want to do is chase away any new interest in Classic Pattern. There are several here on RCU that don't think about those things.

< Message edited by Roguedog -- 11/20/2011 4:13 AM >

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RE: Freedom of speech only for a select few in the clas... - 11/19/2011 7:16 PM  1 votes
DISCUS54


 

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RE: Freedom of speech only for a select few in the clas... - 11/19/2011 7:37 PM   
hook57


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnFH
Being new to Classic Pattern, is this thread any indication as to what a CPA or SPA contest or get together is like?


Absolutely not.  There will always be those who won't agree to disagree. Don't let it get in the way of some modeling fun; just take it for what it's worth.
hook

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RE: Freedom of speech only for a select few in the clas... - 11/19/2011 11:03 PM   
edh13



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Status: offline 		I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said "Stop! Don't do it!" "Why shouldn't I?" he said. "Well, there's so much to live for!" "Like what?" "Well... are you religious?" He said yes. I said, "Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?" "Christian." "Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant ? "Protestant." "Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?" "Baptist" "Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?" "Baptist Church of God!" "Me too! Are you original Baptist Church of God, or are you reformed Baptist Church of God?" "Reformed Baptist Church of God!" "Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915?" He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915!" I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off. (Emo Philips)

Seemed to fit...
Eric

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RE: Freedom of speech only for a select few in the clas... - 11/20/2011 1:44 AM   
piper_chuck



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quote:

ORIGINAL: a1pcfixer
quote:

ORIGINAL: piper_chuck

Let's see if I understand this right. Instead of using the standard member tools and following the forum guidelines, you are suggesting that it's OK to waste the time of two VERY BUSY people to handle day-to-day issues that moderators are in place to deal with? 



No, I'm saying that the 'Report' does very little as already noted!

If needed, send your complaint up the ladder, part of their job is to deal with users AND staff not doing the right thing.

I disagree on your assertion that the Report button does very little. This site has many moderators who invest hours of their own time keeping discussions running smoothly. While there may be occasional problems, they properly deal with nearly all problems. Suggesting that one should bypass several levels of people by not using the report button and go straight to the top is a slap in the face against the people who help make this site what it is, AND as I said already, a waste of a few people's time.



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RE: Freedom of speech only for a select few in the clas... - 11/20/2011 1:54 AM   
piper_chuck



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quote:

ORIGINAL: DISCUS54

It's a imperfect world my friend. Still pretty good though. The vast majority of Moderators do an outstanding job and yet, there will always be a few, who for whatever reason have no business doing what they are doing. It would improve the site tremendously if there was a mechanism in place to score or rate Moderators (like a feedback score) so the community could benefit from the truly good ones and dump or ignore the flunkys.

Things are done behind the scenes to correct non-performing moderators. Sometimes it might take a while, but problems do get dealt with. Bringing problems to the attention of other moderators, or the community mods, can help.



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RE: Freedom of speech only for a select few in the clas... - 11/20/2011 3:02 AM   
CGRetired



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Status: offline 		I've watch things progess here without comment and figure it's time for me to say something.

Contrary to what some may think, we moderators have a life. We don't spend 24-7 on line checking the forums that we are responsible for, we go on line when we can and read through what is posted and do what we have to do to enforce the RCU rules when we can.

Our responsibility is to insure that posts are not in violation of RCU rules. At times, the decisions are subjective and at times they are pretty obvious. We make decisions to leave things be or delete posts based on our apprisals of how the posts may affect others in the forums. We do what we do based on content without consideration for who makes the posts. You don't have to believe this if you don't wish to, but that's the way we operate. I, personally, don't know anyone that posts here so nothing I do here is personal.

I don't make decision on who is allowed to post here. I just make recommendations to my "bosses" who decide who stays and who does not. Sorry to dissapoint you, Roguedog, but that's the way we operate.

In my career as a Coast Guard Officer, when I had a problem with somone, my boss said to me, "Well, he has a boss, doesn't he?" And in this case I, too, have a boss. In fact, I have several. RCKen, Minnflyer, are but two. Feel free to contact them if you have a problem with anything we do. I can assure you that we Moderators have their support because, for the most part, we allow these forums to develop a life of their own and leave things alone. There are very few members that are in a situation that their posts are not allowed to be permanent until we look them over and approve them. Believe, me, there are very few of those, and the decisions to have them on moderator approval is way above my pay grade (hmmm...I ought to ask for a raise.. ).

So, I read, observe, and for the most part, and I can tell you that means about 99% of the posts here, we Mods leave things alone and let members post as they see fit. This thread is a good example. It does not belong in the Classic Pattern forum, it belongs in the Clubhouse, but I've left it alone and left it right here for those that read the posts in this forum free to see what goes on. What does anything in this particular thread have to do with Classic Pattern?

I won't insult your intelligence by making any statements such as have been said here about Moderators because, in spite of what some may think, you are free to say what you wish as long as it does not violate the RCU rules.

All things considered, and this is just a personal observation, I think FLAPSDOWN hit the nail on the head.

CGr.

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RE: Freedom of speech only for a select few in the clas... - 11/20/2011 4:03 AM   
KLXMASTER14



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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnFH

Being new to Classic Pattern, is this thread any indication as to what a CPA or SPA contest or get together is like?


Based on my participation in two classic pattern events, one of which I personally hosted, the answer is no. In fact, quite the contrary.


-Robert

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RE: Freedom of speech only for a select few in the clas... - 11/20/2011 4:06 AM   
KLXMASTER14



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quote:

ORIGINAL: edh13

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said ''Stop! Don't do it!'' ''Why shouldn't I?'' he said. ''Well, there's so much to live for!'' ''Like what?'' ''Well... are you religious?'' He said yes. I said, ''Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?'' ''Christian.'' ''Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant ? ''Protestant.'' ''Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?'' ''Baptist'' ''Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?'' ''Baptist Church of God!'' ''Me too! Are you original Baptist Church of God, or are you reformed Baptist Church of God?'' ''Reformed Baptist Church of God!'' ''Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915?'' He said, ''Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915!'' I said, ''Die, heretic scum'', and pushed him off. (Emo Philips)

Seemed to fit...
Eric


Now you are going to hell, you know that, right Eric?

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RE: Freedom of speech only for a select few in the clas... - 11/20/2011 4:16 AM   
dhal22


 

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Status: online 		Where are all the non classic pattern forum posters coming from? Multiple names that I have NEVER seen on this forum...........

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RE: Freedom of speech only for a select few in the clas... - 11/20/2011 4:44 AM   
Roguedog



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Status: offline 		I was wondering the same thing.

So I checked the THE RCU HEARTBEAT on the RCU home page and this threads been hovering around 3rd an 4th all day. Not my intent but I guess some have nothing better to do than hitchhike on hot topic.

I'd like to think it's due to them having experienced the same problems with their members in there threads. Not likely, but you never know.

One who was waiting for her husband has a total of 53 posts on all of RCU with only 12 posts here in the last year. In that light I'd can see why she can't figure out what's goin on.



< Message edited by Roguedog -- 11/20/2011 5:51 AM >

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RE: Freedom of speech only for a select few in the clas... - 11/20/2011 5:35 AM   
edh13



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quote:

ORIGINAL: KLXMASTER14


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnFH

Being new to Classic Pattern, is this thread any indication as to what a CPA or SPA contest or get together is like?


Based on my participation in two classic pattern events, one of which I personally hosted, the answer is no. In fact, quite the contrary.


-Robert


+1


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RE: Freedom of speech only for a select few in the clas... - 11/20/2011 12:26 PM   
lez1troubles


 

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RE: Freedom of speech only for a select few in the clas... - 11/20/2011 3:04 PM   
rv7driver


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnFH

Being new to Classic Pattern, is this thread any indication as to what a CPA or SPA contest or get together is like?

JohnFH, the answer I'll give you is NO!, I fly both SPA and CPA and everybody gets along just fine and you will always see help given to anybody that might need parts ect. and they will fly the next round and might beat you its called Sportsmanship!

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RE: Freedom of speech only for a select few in the clas... - 11/20/2011 3:25 PM   
a1pcfixer



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ORIGINAL: piper_chuck

quote:

ORIGINAL: a1pcfixer

No, I'm saying that the 'Report' does very little as already noted!

If needed, send your complaint up the ladder, part of their job is to deal with users AND staff not doing the right thing.


I disagree on your assertion that the Report button does very little. This site has many moderators who invest hours of their own time keeping discussions running smoothly. While there may be occasional problems, they properly deal with nearly all problems. Suggesting that one should bypass several levels of people by not using the report button and go straight to the top is a slap in the face against the people who help make this site what it is, AND as I said already, a waste of a few people's time.



Again, re-read this portion....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roguedog
..................my complaint was assigned to a moderator that has not logged on in over two years. So I search and found another moderator and made a complaint to him which he claims he never got..................


I've had the exact same thing happen.

On a different situation where someone else did a 'Report/ticket' when reviewed by another 'mod' he basically stated he didn't have time or desire to deal with the abusive poster in question. So much for your idea of doing a 'Report/ticket'.

I'd give credence to your premise IF the RCU Forum Rules were enforced equally to all, and not only when it suited a mod.
Some posters get preferential treatment, then others see such as what it is.

Granted, such ineffective mods are truly a minority and most do what's needed. But when hitting the 'Report' button is clearly doing nothing, then sending your concerns up the ladder is most certainly a very valid and effective means of recourse.

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RE: Freedom of speech only for a select few in the clas... - 11/20/2011 3:34 PM   
FLAPSDOWN


 

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Status: offline 		Actually, my wife has ony one post on RC Universe and your thread was the random recipient. I literally walked away from my computer with your thread up. What you got was the opinion of a very smart woman who's able to put things in an appropriate context.

What's interesting is your personal comments about my activity on RC Universe. I'm to be judged by my activity on a hobby forum about toy airplanes? Freedom of speech? Isn't that somewhat hypocritical? My dad started flying RC in 1956 and owned a hobby shop as a hobby. I started in 1970 when I was 9 and eventually flew competitively in both pattern and scale. But I'm unqualified to comment based on Rouguedog's standards of activity.

As for my wife, isn't she delightful? Don't worry, I banned her from activity on RCU just like BERUSTY. Furthermore, I've changed the passwords on my computer, Iphone, Ipad, and of course on RCU. I'm now locking my keyboard when I walk away from the computer. Cyberspace is now safe.

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RE: Freedom of speech only for a select few in the clas... - 11/20/2011 4:11 PM   
piper_chuck



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quote:

ORIGINAL: a1pcfixer
quote:

ORIGINAL: piper_chuck

quote:

ORIGINAL: a1pcfixer

No, I'm saying that the 'Report' does very little as already noted!

If needed, send your complaint up the ladder, part of their job is to deal with users AND staff not doing the right thing.


I disagree on your assertion that the Report button does very little. This site has many moderators who invest hours of their own time keeping discussions running smoothly. While there may be occasional problems, they properly deal with nearly all problems. Suggesting that one should bypass several levels of people by not using the report button and go straight to the top is a slap in the face against the people who help make this site what it is, AND as I said already, a waste of a few people's time.



Again, re-read this portion....

I already read it and had it in mind when I responded to your suggestion that one should just escalate to the top instead of using the report button.

quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Roguedog
..................my complaint was assigned to a moderator that has not logged on in over two years. So I search and found another moderator and made a complaint to him which he claims he never got..................


I've had the exact same thing happen.

On a different situation where someone else did a 'Report/ticket' when reviewed by another 'mod' he basically stated he didn't have time or desire to deal with the abusive poster in question. So much for your idea of doing a 'Report/ticket'.

I'd give credence to your premise IF the RCU Forum Rules were enforced equally to all, and not only when it suited a mod.
Some posters get preferential treatment, then others see such as what it is.

Granted, such ineffective mods are truly a minority and most do what's needed. But when hitting the 'Report' button is clearly doing nothing, then sending your concerns up the ladder is most certainly a very valid and effective means of recourse.

As I said, I disagree. I've used the Report button many, many times. I have also invested considerable hours on the other side fixing issues that were reported. Most moderators do a great job and a few isolated incidents where someone drops the ball do not justify completely bypassing the system and escalating to the top for every problem.



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RE: Freedom of speech only for a select few in the clas... - 11/20/2011 4:35 PM   
doxilia



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quote:

ORIGINAL: FLAPSDOWN
Actually, my wife has ony one post on RC Universe and your thread was the random recipient. I literally walked away from my computer with your thread up. What you got was the opinion of a very smart woman who's able to put things in an appropriate context.

As for my wife, isn't she delightful? Don't worry, I banned her from activity on RCU just like BERUSTY. Furthermore, I've changed the passwords on my computer, Iphone, Ipad, and of course on RCU. I'm now locking my keyboard when I walk away from the computer. Cyberspace is now safe.

Gotta keep an eye on them wee kitchens! (Irish term of endearment)

Yours sounds sharp as a blade!

Naughty, naughty...

David.

P.S. I have to say its refreshing to see some fresh blood on the forum - welcome all. Please stay and participate in more subject relevant threads too!


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RE: Freedom of speech only for a select few in the clas... - 11/20/2011 5:05 PM   
Lnewqban



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quote:

ORIGINAL: dhal22

Where are all the non classic pattern forum posters coming from? Multiple names that I have NEVER seen on this forum...........

Best post so far (sorry for not rating it, there is nothing above 5).

Compare to the title of the thread: "Freedom of speech only for a select few in the classic pattern forum."
Perfect example of the need of this thread, before somebody proposes a change to the RCU rules in order to avoid "forum trespassing".

< Message edited by Lnewqban -- 11/20/2011 8:41 PM >

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RE: Freedom of speech only for a select few in the clas... - 11/20/2011 5:12 PM   
Desertlakesflying


 

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ORIGINAL: JollyPopper

A good way to keep yourself out of trouble for the most part (not all of the time) is to ask yourself if what you're about to post is something you would say to the other guy if the two of you were nose to nose. If it isn't, don't post it.


I don't post anything I wouldn't say nose to nose.

Especially one this morning. It annoys the hell out of me when someone has a condescending attitude toward me because I disagree.

Be glad your posts are deleted. In the jet forums the moderator doesn't moderate the ones that need to be removed unless someone like Ken or Minn step in and do it themselves.

Disagree there and you will have every single RCU rule broken to tell you who you are and how you are going to be, while the majority of moderators turn their heads....

There's 5 or 6 real problem children there, but they are all blocked these days since they never have anything useful, helpful, or worth listening to to post. They are usually bashing everyone else while talking about how good they are, especially the BVM crowd. Disagree with one of those guys and you're instantly branded a hater.

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RE: Freedom of speech only for a select few in the clas... - 11/20/2011 6:23 PM  1 votes
a1pcfixer



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quote:

ORIGINAL: piper_chuck


quote:

ORIGINAL: Roguedog
..................my complaint was assigned to a moderator that has not logged on in over two years. So I search and found another moderator and made a complaint to him which he claims he never got..................


I've had the exact same thing happen.

On a different situation where someone else did a 'Report/ticket' when reviewed by another 'mod' he basically stated he didn't have time or desire to deal with the abusive poster in question. So much for your idea of doing a 'Report/ticket'.

I'd give credence to your premise IF the RCU Forum Rules were enforced equally to all, and not only when it suited a mod.
Some posters get preferential treatment, then others see such as what it is.

Granted, such ineffective mods are truly a minority and most do what's needed. But when hitting the 'Report' button is clearly doing nothing, then sending your concerns up the ladder is most certainly a very valid and effective means of recourse.


quote:


As I said, I disagree. I've used the Report button many, many times. I have also invested considerable hours on the other side fixing issues that were reported. Most moderators do a great job and a few isolated incidents where someone drops the ball do not justify completely bypassing the system and escalating to the top for every problem.


Yep, we do indeed disagree.

For every problem (YOUR words NOT mine), no.

Filing a report/ticket that gets assigned to a staffer not logged-in for weeks, does NOTHING to prove using the 'Report' button is the only means of dealing with such issues. But escalating it up the ladder DOES have effect that a plain 'ticket/report' does NOT.
I too have been on the other side (elsewhere), and sometimes offenses to forum rules NEED to be brought to the attention of upper echelons.

We're on RCU to enjoy the friendly exchange of ideas and experiences. NOT to endure abusive posters, and/or posters violating forum rules that some mods decide to ignore dealing with. If/when the 'Report' actually has fair & balanced effect, fine. When not, send it up the ladder! Such is a viable option, and one to be used if/when needed.

Too many, too often forget that for every logged-in poster you see here, there's a larger group of lurkers that are browsing. They see the dirty laundry getting aired, and some abusive posters NOT being dealt with, so those lurkers don't join in the conversations. NOT the public image RCU should exhibit.

So far the following has been the best posting to this msg thread (NOT that such an idea will ever be implemented though)....


quote:

ORIGINAL: DISCUS54

........................................The vast majority of Moderators do an outstanding job and yet, there will always be a few, who for whatever reason have no business doing what they are doing. It would improve the site tremendously if there was a mechanism in place to score or rate Moderators (like a feedback score) so the community could benefit from the truly good ones and dump or ignore the flunkys.





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(in reply to piper_chuck)
       Post #: 48

RE: Freedom of speech only for a select few in the clas... - 11/20/2011 6:52 PM   
boomerik



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From: wijngaarden, NETHERLANDS
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Everyone done now with this ?? Why is it that when a bunch of people (that should have the same interests ) come together for the "fun/hobby" of it there are always people that seemingly don`t have enough rules and BS in everyday life allready and so they feel the need to also continue picking on eachother in the time were they should relax and enjoy their hobby .

Like David allready kinda said shall we go on to more relevant threads again ??

Erik

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(in reply to doxilia)
       Post #: 49

RE: Freedom of speech only for a select few in the clas... - 11/20/2011 9:58 PM   
CGRetired



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Roguedog
..................my complaint was assigned to a moderator that has not logged on in over two years. So I search and found another moderator and made a complaint to him which he claims he never got..................


Let me explain something to you guys. First of all, when a report is submitted, it may or may not go to a specific Moderator. If it is assigned to me, then I get an Email stating that "A ticket in a forum that I moderate has been assigned to you." So, when I get that report, I go to the moderator section and to the tickets and read what it is all about. In this case, I did not get an Email so the assumption by Roguedog that I "claim I never got" is not a claim, but a fact.

I looked in the tickets area and saw two tickets written by Roguedog on the day in question. Neither were assigned to me. The action I took in that particular thread was to remove a post that, in my judgement, was beginning to start a bit of a range war. So, I deleted it. Plain and simple. I also notified the poster of my action, which seems to have precipitated this thread.

I said it earlier, that this sort of discussion does not belong in the Classic Pattern forum. What does it have to do with Pattern? It probably doesn't belong anywhere because all it does is forwards someone's personal agenda and solicits the same from others. Clearly some agree, some do not.

Personally, I have not taken a side, although the subject and content are directed toward me and other Moderators that this particular individual may not think highly about. To tell you the truth, I don't have time for such nonsense and I don't think the purpose of this forum is to allow someone to direct their personal feelings towards others. Where do we get an education about Classic Pattern from such posts?

I am moving this over to the Clubhouse where the moderator over there may delete, he may not, but it clearly does not belong here.

CGr.

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(in reply to boomerik)
       Post #: 50

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