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Is combat dead? - 12/1/2011 12:49 AM   
vertical grimmace



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From: ft collins , CO, USA
Status: offline 		Is combat beginning to go away? Where is the hotbed of activity? I remember when it was so big. Does the RCCA have a strategy to try to promote the events?

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RE: Is combat dead? - 12/1/2011 1:06 AM   
Blue Note



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Status: offline 		Evidently, the economy has really taken a toll on combat participation. I know the RCCA is discussing it and taking suggestions, but most are simply speculating as to the reason for the decline over the past several years. Even when you look back over the past several years, when the economy was in better shape, you could see the trend. I suppose identifying the cause for the drop off will help to determine a plan of action for a revival. Everyone around my area really enjoys combat once they see and/or try it, but get discouraged by the rules and regulations. That's fine for a club combat scenario, but hard when you try to mesh that with people that also travel to compete and wish to practice with their same planes and such. Also, there is a strong park flyer population that is left out...and they seem to be the ones newer to the sport and more excited to try new things such as combat. When faced with the realization of building/rebuilding and possible inclusion of nitro engines and the support gear typical with many of the combat designs, they tend to shy away with hesitation. At least that has been my experience. Home town participation has always been an issue for me. We certainly need a good game plan.

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RE: Is combat dead? - 12/1/2011 3:59 AM   
DaneMcGee



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Status: offline 		No Combat is not dead, but participation in events that require travel has fell off with the bad economy I think.

There are good core groups around the country that still hold several events a year.


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RE: Is combat dead? - 12/1/2011 9:42 AM   
combatpigg



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Status: online 		Really slow paced, low impact classes were never developed for the AMA rulebook.

Keep the planes to 14 ozs or less with wing areas around 300 sq inches and just enough power to manuever at will but keep the speed limited to about 35 mph. I've flown this formula over the years locally and you can fly all day with the same planes if you bring clear packing tape and CA glue for random repairs. A good day at the field for just 2 combateers is typically 12 matches that last 15 minutes each.


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RE: Is combat dead? - 12/1/2011 1:00 PM   
pe reivers



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Status: offline 		The high repair rates take their toll, wilst slow survivable combat just is not the same as 1/12 scale. Also, some rules are outright unfriendly.
Combat is not dead, but the number of pilots has dwindled.


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RE: Is combat dead? - 12/1/2011 4:25 PM   
draftman1



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Status: offline 		Basicly what Bluenote and Dane said, the economy has taken its toll. people cant travel as much anymore and burn out does occur.
i have to travel at least 3 hrs each way to the closest event in CA and usually its about a 5 hr trip to most of them. California still is a hotbed for combat.

the constant repairs and equipment replacement does take its toll also but combat is in my blood so im gona keep doing it

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RE: Is combat dead? - 12/1/2011 4:48 PM   
grasshopper


 

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Status: offline 		The active combat pilots who are for real will keep doing it come hell or high water.

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RE: Is combat dead? - 12/1/2011 5:22 PM   
waynebang



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Status: offline 		Combat contest require a lot of work. It is hard to get someone to put in the time to support a contest, also the other club members resist giving up thier time at the field for a contest. I am guilty of not taking the time to promote a contest in my area an as such I have not flown a contest this year. The closest contest to me was over 500 miles away. That is a long way to drive to fly 8 rounds of combat with gas costing 3 to 4 dollars a gallon. I wish i had a good answer.

Wayne
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RE: Is combat dead? - 12/1/2011 11:53 PM   
pe reivers



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Status: offline 		We pay €1.50 a quart for gas, that is €6.00 for a gallon. In good ol' USD that would be about $8.50
Who is complaining about USD 4.00?


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RE: Is combat dead? - 12/2/2011 2:10 AM   
combatpigg



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quote:

ORIGINAL: pe reivers

We pay €1.50 a quart for gas, that is €6.00 for a gallon. In good ol' USD that would be about $8.50
Who is complaining about USD 4.00?



People who can still remember paying 12 cents per gallon and the "Price Wars" between the gasoline companies are some of the complainers.


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RE: Is combat dead? - 12/2/2011 4:38 PM   
vertical grimmace



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Status: offline 		Having been involved with the creation of the open class event at the very beginnings of the RCCA and also going to most of the big meets in Montana, I have to say after a while I burned out. It is tough to build all the time to maintain a fleet.

My biggest problem with the rules though, are the ability for the pilot to be so close and comunicate with the judges. I have seen to many pilots that win all of the time that have figured out how to talk the judge into scoring cuts for them that they did not deserve. How many times are judges just whoever you can get to do it, at an event? Workers are hard to find. I really realized this one time when I was a judge. I had one pilot that I denied 10 cuts! Yes, I gave him 2 or 3, as he is a good pilot. But someones teenage daughter judging, probably would have given him 6-7. Just so happens this guy never lost.
Seperation and no communication between the judges and pilots would at least make these events more fair. Just wanted to point out this issue I have experienced.

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RE: Is combat dead? - 12/2/2011 10:29 PM   
combatpigg



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Status: online 		The only scoring we do while flying combat is who has drank the most beer. Usually it's just 2 guys up at a time and it's not hard to figure out who did what to who.
We fly 2 "classes".......15 diesel powered planes with 8x6 nylon props on 500 sq inch wings. These planes are very slow and mid airs are pretty easy to avoid. The drawback is they are smelly diesels.

The other "class" is .049 to .061 powered planes fly on 300 sq inch wings with 6x3 props. They are fairly slow and usually don't have enough kinetic energy to plow through the tall alfalfa and reach the ground after a death spiral. Midairs are pretty easy to avoid, but as the day wears on and the ice chest begins to empty out, there is an increased change of some carnage. Most repairs can be done in 15 minutes at the field with scrap wood, CA glue and clear packing tape.

A good day's worth of actual "Combat Minutes" for just 2 guys is 12 matches X 15 or 20 minutes each....or 3 or 4 hours of streamer chasing. That's a lot of combat.....and oh yah, 6 light canadian lagers is a good day's worth for me also.


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RE: Is combat dead? - 12/2/2011 11:12 PM   
vertical grimmace



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Status: offline 		Yah CP, the informal 1/2 A was great fun.

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RE: Is combat dead? - 12/3/2011 1:45 AM   
combatpigg



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Status: online 		http://youtu.be/28na2nnbj9E

Do you think this "class" might catch on...?

I'll bet it'll tow a full size streamer...!


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RE: Is combat dead? - 12/3/2011 5:15 PM   
iron eagel



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Status: offline 		Cp that would be a bit had to catch from the looks of it.
Our club host seven or eight CL combat events each year... I'm not sure what class it is but they are a hoot to watch.
Lately there has been talk of organizing some other events for the up-coming year, such as foamie pylon races or light-weight class type of R/C combat events such as you suggested. It will be interesting to see what comes out of it.

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RE: Is combat dead? - 12/3/2011 7:26 PM   
combatpigg



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Status: online 		Wow, you guys are very active...! The guys who fly micro-light planes made from depron or this real thin sheet foam have full contact combat matches because the planes won't pull much of a streamer and they are so light that full contact is easy enough to repair on the spot.


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RE: Is combat dead? - 12/3/2011 7:46 PM   
iron eagel



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Status: offline 		The foam class events are really something that clubs should be looking at because like you said; they are light enough that they can be fixed on the spot and be ready to go in a few minutes.
We have a few guys that do informal full contact combat type of matches with the mini mags and it is a fun time for all, spectators and contestants alike...

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RE: Is combat dead? - 12/3/2011 8:12 PM   
perttime



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Status: offline 		Scale combat seems to be doing fine in Europe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N93xTD1RZNk

People generally seem to cut the airframes out of foam and cover them with parcel paper: cheap and fast when you are doing it as a production line to build enough to last you a while.

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RE: Is combat dead? - 12/3/2011 10:28 PM   
Clean



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quote:

ORIGINAL: pe reivers

We pay €1.50 a quart for gas, that is €6.00 for a gallon. In good ol' USD that would be about $8.50
Who is complaining about USD 4.00?



People who live where driving across the nation at 8.50 a gallon doesn't take 4 bucks of gas.  Takes me 80 bucks just to get to the other side of Kansas!



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RE: Is combat dead? - 12/3/2011 10:32 PM   
Clean



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quote:

ORIGINAL: combatpigg

http://youtu.be/28na2nnbj9E

Do you think this "class" might catch on...?

I'll bet it'll tow a full size streamer...!


First off, what an iritating video.  Screaming little half a and less then 1% of the blue screen has somehting you might want to see, if it was bigger then 2 pixels wide.

No, it won't catch on.  Very few of us want to screw with a half A engine.  They'll go, and have, electric first.  Most of em won't do a 15 and consider 25 to be the smalles IC engine they'll worry about.

But that sucker sounds like it's honkin pretty good.

Do you know I even stlopped the video, went downstairs and got my glasses, came back and turned it back on to SEE the dang thing?  I'm dis-appointed.



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RE: Is combat dead? - 12/3/2011 11:26 PM   
combatpigg



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Status: online 		Sorry it wasn't up to your standards or worth your time, Clean.

I posted it as an attempt at humor.

I'm pretty sure there wasn't any cover charge or 2 drink minimum to watch the video though, so make sure you get your hand stamped on the way out and RCU will send you a full refund for your time wasted.


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RE: Is combat dead? - 12/3/2011 11:46 PM   
Blue Note



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Status: offline 		From all of these types of discussions I have read over the past year or so, I certainly see the likelihood of a small electric "class" of combat to emerge to capture the park flyer generation. I think it would be a good idea and may nurture enough interest to get some to move into the already established classes. I suspect "local/club combat" rules will apply before anything standard is settled on. I think Scale 3696 had some good momentum for a while, but seems stagnant now. For the people around here, I think the flight speed needs to drop to about 35mph to increase their comfort. 1/2A Combat looks about right, but it would have to be modified to electric. Too many simply will not go nitro, especially to something as finicky as engines that small. Many around here that profess to have interest in combat still have no desire to compete in sanctioned events, or adhere to rules for that matter...

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RE: Is combat dead? - 12/4/2011 12:49 AM   
combatpigg



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Status: online 		I think the electric motor idea makes sense.
The motor would need to be mounted and tethered to the plane so it would push back or break away during a crash. It would also be good to have a stout shaft, like 5/32" or 3/16" to put up with abuse.
The fire hazard of crashing a lipo powered model in a dry hay field needs to be considered, too.


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RE: Is combat dead? - 12/4/2011 1:50 AM   
iron eagel



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Status: offline 		One of our members is also a member of a club in Florida as well, this afternoon he was telling me that the club in Fl has foam pusher flying wings that bounce off one another when they make contact. He's going to bring one to the next meeting to let us see what it's all about. They are an all electric club so that is what they are flying (our club is a mix of electric, glow and gas) so it will be interesting to see if there is any interest in it, what develops.
I still have one or two 1/2A engines kicking about if that is what come out of it.
I have to admit that at my age, I am finding the convenience of electrics is more appealing, except for my last build ( a lot of gear to get a small electric airborne).

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RE: Is combat dead? - 12/4/2011 2:03 AM   
Blue Note



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Status: offline 		Some of what you deal with is the mentality difference of people that want to do ribbon cut combat such as the "official" classes versus "full contact" combat. I find newbies tend to like the idea of smashing their planes together more than those that have actually tried combat already and have experienced the challenge of snagging a ribbon. Flying wings with pushers do survive better, but ribbon snagging and recovery from collisions tend to be less. I prefer to minimize my rebuilding time, so I typically try and promote the ribbon style. Not to mention the AMAs stance on intentional contact in regards to safety. It's a ll a compromise...

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