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3d or aerobatic giant - 12/4/2011 2:05 AM   
TBone2008


 

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Status: offline 		is there a difference, when choosing a giant plane to buy, between 3d and aerobatic plane ?

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RE: 3d or aerobatic giant - 12/4/2011 2:38 AM   
aussiesteve



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Status: offline 		Instead of flooding the forums with a lot of ambiguous threads, why don't you try explaining what you want it for.

3D is a form of aerobatics, So is IMAC, so is F3A, so is just boring holes around the skies.

What in particular do you want to do with the plane?

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RE: 3d or aerobatic giant - 12/4/2011 3:28 AM   
TBone2008


 

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Status: offline 		dude, the forum is for questions and that's what I use it for. I'll ask whatever I feel like as long as it's related to the topic. you don't like - don't log in !

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RE: 3d or aerobatic giant - 12/4/2011 4:04 AM   
zacharyR


 

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Status: offline 		his responce is do to your poor question statment, it's just doesn't make sense if your skilled enough to take on giant scale hardcore airframes you should be skilled enough to the anser that type of basic question .
to me your questioin seem's trollish







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RE: 3d or aerobatic giant - 12/4/2011 4:17 AM   
bubbagates



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Status: offline 		Is it that hard to just answer a question. in my experience about 95% of the people I have met and flown with and against are great people, I guess I just witnessed some of the other 5 percent, sheesh

My response is:

A good bit of the giant scale planes are very capable of 3D as well as precision and general sport flying.

Personally I suck at 3D if I compare myself to some of the 3D I have witnessed and even judged at various contests, but can hold my own doing it, but I do very well in a contest for IMAC style flying, i.e. I'm a big fan of precision flying

A good example is my 40% Carden Cap 232 or even my 40% Carden Extra 330

The Cap has it's throws maxed out and does fantastic 3D, if I back off on the throws to fly precision it does that very well indeed. I use 1.5 inch arms on the ailerons and elevators to get 45 degree or better of throw and 4 inch offset arm on the servos for the rudder giving me easily 50 degrees of throw each way but I use the TX to tame the throws by flipping a switch. The problem with this setup is you are loosing torque when the throws are turned down and if you forget to hit the switch to turn down the throws and you are expecting tame and you get full blown 3D throws, well, the outcome could be rather disappointing

The 330 is setup strictly for IMAC style flying, it uses short 3/4 inch arms on the servos for maximum torque but minimal throw, basically about 20 degrees on the ailerons, 12 degrees on the elevator and about 25 degrees on the rudder, I can increase the rudder throw for doing nice tight hammers (stall turns) but they remain at normal throws for all else. That way I can corner the sticks and the plane remains tame but very precise. The surfaces themselves are plenty big enough for 3D should I wish to change the mechanical setup


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RE: 3d or aerobatic giant - 12/4/2011 4:19 AM   
phantomdriver


 

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Status: offline 		What kind of flying and what is your skill level? Are you a newbie?
What size are you interested in?

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RE: 3d or aerobatic giant - 12/4/2011 4:20 AM   
phantomdriver


 

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RE: 3d or aerobatic giant - 12/4/2011 4:23 AM   
bubbagates



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quote:

ORIGINAL: phantomdriver

Holy smokes Bubba 8561 posts really?

I was a moderator on this site for almost 6 years but I haven't been one for almost 3 yrs now, so I've been on this site for quite some time


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RE: 3d or aerobatic giant - 12/4/2011 4:32 AM   
phantomdriver


 

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Status: offline 		Tbone was just wanting some perimeters for what you are looking for.
What size of frame you looking for 30% 35%? Like Bubba mentioned some guys have dedicated plane for IMAC & a plane setup for 3D.
I've got 5 planes and they all fly different depends on my mood.

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RE: 3d or aerobatic giant - 12/4/2011 1:41 PM   
TBone2008


 

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Status: offline 		guys, I'm not that experienced to know all the details to add to the question. but the poiint is there's a proper way to reply. both for the integrity of the Forum and the writer...
a good example would be phantomdriver's reply (giving me more input as to the missing pieces !)


as to more info: I have couple years experience with pkz spitfire and pkz T28 and do basic aerobatics. I flew the 3d Carden Yak 54 89', which I found easy to fly (didn't do more than rolls and to standard flight).
I know I'm looking for a giant plane. and I think I would enjoy more precision aerobatics, than much 3d.

I think size wise I'm looking for a wingspan of bwetween 89-100', and engine of 50-85cc.
what I don't know is if 3d precision aerobatic planes and 3d planes are one and the same, or that instead of a 3d plane I need to purchase a dedicated precision aerobatic plane ?
and if so, what are good giant ones (for someone that is not much experienced with giant ones) ?



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RE: 3d or aerobatic giant - 12/4/2011 3:06 PM   
Zeeb



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quote:

ORIGINAL: TBone2008

dude, the forum is for questions and that's what I use it for. I'll ask whatever I feel like as long as it's related to the topic. you don't like - don't log in !


Well while there are a lot of guys who are willing to help, I have to disagree with Bill based on this comment. First issue is that you posted the same question in multiple forums which isn't supposed to be done, second is this attitude, third is that while others have not quite been shall we say, diplomatic? they're trying to tell you that you're about to jump in the deep end of the pool without knowing how to swim.

Your last post seems to indicate some change in attitude from this one so I'll offer a bit more from my perspective.

All airplanes are aerobatic, some just do it better than others based on design. 3D might generally be defined as flight in a high alpha condition where the model's wings are not the reason it's staying in the air. The BIGGEST difference between models setup for 3D and precision aerobatics might be power to weight ratio, 3D stuff requires more power and can contribute to overheating issues due to the lack of cooling airflow over the engine while it's pulling a pretty good chunk of power. As noted, most guys who are really into it have a model for each type of flying. The rest of us who only play with it try to get an engine/airframe combo that is capable and set the model up with usually triple rate control deflections.

As to which combination is best, that's the old "Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge" or "JR vs. Futaba" type debate and only you can answer that question for you as there are a LOT of different ways to go and you have a LOT to learn before you tackle a project like this and know which questions to ask and why to ask them....

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RE: 3d or aerobatic giant - 12/4/2011 3:52 PM   
bubbagates



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Status: offline 		TBone,

Have a look at the Wildhare (haven't looked but are they still in business) and Aeroworks planes, while they seem more expensive in the end they really are not, especially the Aeroworks versions. Aeroworks includes everything you need and will want to use out of the box so you will not have to go purchase any hardware. If you already have the engine and electronics, then you could literally have an Aeroworks plane in the air over the weekend and the longest part is waiting for the glue to dry on the rudder hinges

Wildhare used to sell hardware kits to go with their planes but in the end, the cost of it and the plane balances out to the same pricing as Aeroworks

The Carden Yak you flew is a good plane but somewhat fragile, it was ONLY designed by Carden, which is what you will find most IMAC pilots worldwide use, Carden is a top notch manufacturer but they are true builder kits only, you get a box of wood and sticks and plans and you build it yourself, only the engine box is laser cut, but OH my, if done right there is not much that can beat a decently built Carden with the right person on the sticks, but the Yak was built by Hangar9 as an ARF so there were some short cuts to save some weight. If you start removing wood in certain areas then they tend to become fragile and since you are new at these sizes, you really want something that will take a bit of punishment, hence the Aeroworks and Wildhare planes

The Yak series of planes is good for precision but you will find a mid-wing EXtra (the Extra 260 and 300 are mid-wings) will be even more precise and will punch through the air nicely, even on windy days. Yaks and Sukohis have that nice big cowl which helps to keep the speed down on downlines, but they are slow going uphill unless they are seriously overpowered and are susceptible to higher winds. In IMAC we can typically fly in 25mph winds and still maintain a perfectly wind corrected lines

Extras are more sleek, hence they deal with wind better and are more precise, at least in my eyes. Now the reason I have my Cap232 is I love the style, I find it as easy to deal with in wind as the Extra, however they have a reputation of being snappy but I find that is due to two things, being too heavy or way to much elevator throw. My Cap, for precision has only 3/8 icy elevator throw and I can cut a 90 degree turn quickly and without fear of a stall, plus the rudder is even more powerful than the Yaks and Extras and uses less throw than Extras and Yaks so holding a nice straight line is even easier

As far as you posting the same question in other forums, yes, that is not allowed, but I am no longer a moderator so it is not my place to tell you that you cannot do that or even tear into you for doing it and no moderator should ever "tear" into a member at all, at least in public like I have seen here, in this thread. So to those that are policing the RCU site and are not moderators, sign up to become a moderator. You will find out it is not as easy as it looks, but that is the sign of a good mod, he/she makes it look easy.


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RE: 3d or aerobatic giant - 12/4/2011 5:23 PM   
Uncas


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TBone2008

is there a difference, when choosing a giant plane to buy, between 3d and aerobatic plane ?


Not Really. Most can do both.
Some excell at precision aerobatics like rolls and loops and stuff, often refered to as IMAC which is very competetive. A prefered plane is often the Extra.
Some planes excell at 3D. A preffered plane is often an Edge.

However, both of these planes can do both. Vendors are very aware their planes need to be able to do both and have designed them to do it. No matter what plane you pick it will likely be able to do both styles of flying. If you look at Extreme Flight for instance. they sell a 50cc YAK, Edge and Extra. I am certain all 3 of these planes would do great at any type of flying. But I could not say for certain their Edge is better at 3D than the Extra without at least looking into it. That is what is great about RCU. Pick a plane - then research it.

To be honest Tbone - at your skill level it probably will not matter that much as long as you avoid buying a dud plane. The differences in capabilties will be noticed by very experienced flyers trying to achieve levels of perfection. It is unbelievable the skills that some of the flyers have.

Good Luck!

< Message edited by Uncas -- 12/5/2011 2:24 AM >

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RE: 3d or aerobatic giant - 12/4/2011 9:17 PM   
OliverJacob


 

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Status: offline 		Your control surfaces need to be big enough if you want to fly 3D. You are slow with a high power setting and need to deal with little airflow.



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RE: 3d or aerobatic giant - 12/4/2011 10:20 PM   
TBone2008


 

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Status: offline 		thanks guys. Uncas, very helpful input, thanks.

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RE: 3d or aerobatic giant - 12/4/2011 11:13 PM   
zacharyR


 

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Status: offline 		why the HEll do you guys feed the troll ??????

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RE: 3d or aerobatic giant - 12/5/2011 1:40 AM   
DanMN


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zacharyR

why the HEll do you guys feed the troll ??????

I have to agree with Zach in regards to the OP. Look at TBones posts and threads. TBone, if you want to get into "giant scale", and you have flown foamies only, you are into a different build and cost structure. You mentioned you only wanted to spend $2000 in another of your threads. Try and get an Extra 260 30% done (new) at $2K. You won't. You also won't buy a new wing for $30 like you can do with the PZ planes. You didn't know the difference in glow and gas engines in one of your threads. That level of industry knowledge is something someone that wants to build and fly a large expensive plane should already have for a while before one takes on the endeavor. Go get a nice Venus 2 or something of that ilk. It will still cost you 600-800, but it will increase your skills greatly and you will learn from it. You do what you want, but look back at your other threads and take the advice given by the many people that have replied to your threads. Man, I hope I didn't just feed the troll..........

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RE: 3d or aerobatic giant - 12/5/2011 2:42 AM   
rgburrill



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quote:

ORIGINAL: DanMN

quote:

ORIGINAL: zacharyR

why the HEll do you guys feed the troll ??????

I have to agree with Zach in regards to the OP. Look at TBones posts and threads. TBone, if you want to get into "giant scale", and you have flown foamies only, you are into a different build and cost structure. You mentioned you only wanted to spend $2000 in another of your threads. Try and get an Extra 260 30% done (new) at $2K. You won't. You also won't buy a new wing for $30 like you can do with the PZ planes. You didn't know the difference in glow and gas engines in one of your threads. That level of industry knowledge is something someone that wants to build and fly a large expensive plane should already have for a while before one takes on the endeavor. Go get a nice Venus 2 or something of that ilk. It will still cost you 600-800, but it will increase your skills greatly and you will learn from it. You do what you want, but look back at your other threads and take the advice given by the many people that have replied to your threads. Man, I hope I didn't just feed the troll..........


Thank you, you kept me from getting in trouble  with a less than courteous response.  You have said exactly what needed to be said to this person.

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RE: 3d or aerobatic giant - 12/5/2011 3:29 AM   
cheezer1222


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zacharyR

why the HEll do you guys feed the troll ??????




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