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Quaker 84 Penn Valley Hobbies - 12/7/2011 5:25 PM   
Brunox


 

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Hi, I'm building the Quaker 84' from PVH but still have a problem to understand instructions about the stab. After ... quite a long time and thanks to my dictionnary I understood nearly all but to be sure, could anyone tell me if the ribs are supposed to come OVER the top AND BOTTOM of the 3 horizontal spars ? The plans says "Fill in areas between ribs with 1/4X1/8 ON TOP OF of 1/4 SQ spars". I suppose this means "areas between ribs... ON TOP AND BOTTOM OF 1/4 SQ spars" ? 
If anyone knows, it would be of great help...
Thanks
Brunox



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RE: Quaker 84 Penn Valley Hobbies - 12/7/2011 6:06 PM   
Scar



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Status: offline 		Sounds like there are top and bottom spars. Between the ribs, you can see a gap between the spars.
To make this spar arrangement more stiff, you fill or cover the gap with those small bits of wood.

At least, that's my interpretation.
Dave Olson

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RE: Quaker 84 Penn Valley Hobbies - 12/7/2011 6:43 PM   
HighPlains


 

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Status: online 		Hello Brunox, welcome to RCU.

The Quaker was originally designed as a free flight model with no movable tail surfaces. So the structure was fairly basic with 1/8x1/4 strips of balsa on both sides of the spars acting as ribs. All was good, since the covering would only touch the strips and the leading and trailing edges (plus tips) of the structure.

But when you convert it over to RC control, then you indeed need to fill in the structure with additional strips of 1/8x1/4 on top of the spars at the hinge lines on both sides.

Unlike some of the old classic designs, this one should assemble very quickly, so take some pictures and post them as you go.

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RE: Quaker 84 Penn Valley Hobbies - 12/7/2011 7:52 PM   
Brunox


 

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Status: offline 		Ok, thank you for your answers ! "top of the spars on both sides at the hinge lines" which means the spars at the hinge lines will have a total thickness (I hope the word is correct) of 1/4 +1/8 on top+1/8 on bottom, so that the strips go flush with the spar and the covering is possible.

Unless one says the quaker is easy to build, I find it quite difficult since instructions are rather short, and not so easy to understand for a french-speaker : -  )
I'm afraid I'll have other questions regarding the wing incidence and the "angle-piqueur", I mean the engine incidence to try to limit the nose-up tendency instructions refer to... 
I'll try to post some pics but I'm not used at all with the process- I mean with the way to achieve this
Many thanks
Bruno 

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RE: Quaker 84 Penn Valley Hobbies - 12/13/2011 10:07 PM   
safeTwire


 

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Status: offline 		One method of assembly: The ribs go on top of the main(middle) spar, and the trailing edge(rear spar). At the Leading edge(front spar), the top and bottom ribs come together and sit INSIDE the leading edge and flush with the top and bottom of the leading edge. ALL spar areas are then brought up flush with the rib surfaces via many strips (1/8x1/4 if I remember correct).

Incidence: The wing saddle got built over the plans, and the Horizontal Stab (saddle)was adjusted so that the Stab was in line with the wing. Zero Incidence.

The motor mount was installed with a relationship to the Wing and Stab of about 2 to 3 degrees of downthrust. A few degrees of right thrust was also established in the motor mount.

Do not know if this is the "correct" way to assemble this plane(knowing myself, most probably NOT)...BUT...It worked out well and flies like a dream!

I hope this has been of some help!

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RE: Quaker 84 Penn Valley Hobbies - 12/17/2011 6:45 PM   
Brunox


 

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From: , BELGIUM
Status: offline 		Thank you for help ! Meanwhile I've built the stab but have still some problems with the ribs that are the nearest from the rudder. And I'm afraid I made a mistake with the two ribs that are joined where the rudder is supposed to be glued. Indeed, they form a bow just like all the other ribs but how can I glue the rudder there since it is not curved ?
I took photos of the building but have not find how to attach it yet  : -  ) 

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RE: Quaker 84 Penn Valley Hobbies - 12/17/2011 7:29 PM   
Brunox


 

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RE: Quaker 84 Penn Valley Hobbies - 12/17/2011 8:20 PM   
safeTwire


 

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Status: offline 		Instead of the two inner most ribs, I used a couple (top and bottom) of regular grain (for weight) 1/2x1/4"sticks. 1/16" sheeting was added between these strips and the next outer ribs for strength. True, the airfoil has been flattened where rudder meets the fuselage, but it sure does not show any problem in RC flight!

You can sand the daylight's out of the structure in this area to remove protruding material, and have a sturdy, flat area to mount the rudder. Extra added weight was negligible.

Remember to mount the rudder aft enough of the fuselage end to allow room for the elevator half joiner.

Each and every step of this model required much thought and major adaptation.

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RE: Quaker 84 Penn Valley Hobbies - 12/17/2011 9:14 PM   
Brunox


 

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Status: offline 		Ok, thanks, in fact wathever the solution adopted the airfoil must necessarily be flattened at the place where the rudder meets the stab I guess ? Or maybe curving the bottom spar of the rudder would be another solution... And concerning the elevator : what about the short ribs that are the nearest from the rudder ? According to the plan, they come at the top and bottom of the spars that are at about 45 degrees, not flush with those spars (I made them come flush with a notch in the spar, then had to pull all of it out since I realized I was wrong). Seems quite strange regarding the covering... at last : does the hardwood piece needed for control horns come flush with the structure or upon the structure ? .... many questions, I know, but I'm getting crazy with this plane ! I made photos but can't find how to post those. 

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RE: Quaker 84 Penn Valley Hobbies - 12/18/2011 12:27 AM   
safeTwire


 

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Status: offline 		From the moment you surrender to the fact that you have to build this plane from your own known building method's and techniques...thing's will move along smoothly! The plans and instructions are for general reference only.

The finished product will be a very fine performing aircraft!

1/32" plywood sheet was used top and bottom of a solid balsa piece to make a firm sandwich of material on which to mount the elevator control horn. (Nylon horn thru-bolted into a nylon mounting base)

Have you built the wing?

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RE: Quaker 84 Penn Valley Hobbies - 12/18/2011 12:51 PM   
Brunox


 

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Status: offline 		Ok, and thanks for the photo ! Yes, the wing is built now. After Christmas I shall have more time and will try to finish the stab and rudder. And the fuselage...

In fact I choose the plane because I find it beautiful and like planes that are able to fly slowly, with little engine (I mean little trhottle)

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RE: Quaker 84 Penn Valley Hobbies - 12/18/2011 3:20 PM   
safeTwire


 

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Status: offline 		This kit was given to me by a senior club member whose health was other than comforting to him. He said: "Here Tony...you build it and we'll fly it!"

Done Deal! After all that he has done for his fellow modelers, it was the least I could do!

Kit started in March, finished in July. Wanted to get it airborne ASAP, hence the quick monokote covering, of which I beg everyone for forgiveness!

The fuselage rigidity is so strong after primary squaring & assembly (motor mount NOT installed at this time), that I had to soak the nose end until it became pliable(use waterproof glue). Then you can install your pre-made engine mount.

Since the Firewall is balsa, I beefed up everywhere I could around it with lightweight triangular stock of various sizes.

Other lightweight balsa pieces were added at various places to provide a secure surface for the covering material.



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RE: Quaker 84 Penn Valley Hobbies - 12/27/2011 1:34 PM   
RocketRob



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Status: offline 		Thanks guys for this discussion - I have been wanting to get mine started!

What will you both use to spin the prop?

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RE: Quaker 84 Penn Valley Hobbies - 12/27/2011 5:01 PM   
safeTwire


 

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Status: offline 		One example: The Thunder Tiger Four Stroke 54 works well! I used a 13x6 k series prop for two reasons A) The way the plane "chuggs" along and B) Roars of Laughter from other members when they see the plane chugging along! Cool Power 30% (with a Splash of Pure Castor Oil added)

Finding a rubber band to hold the wing took some time. You can always tie some together, but I like to use pre-made.

Size 10A ( 10"x3/16"x3/64" ) does the trick!

http://www.dykemarubberband.com/index.php

or...since they come by the pound, I would be more than happy to send you both enough to get in the air if you wish. (PM an address)

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RE: Quaker 84 Penn Valley Hobbies - 12/31/2011 4:03 PM   
RocketRob



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Status: offline 		Your TT 54 installation looks very clean.
Any idea what rpm you are turning the 13x6 prop on the ground?
reason I ask is I an considering using a Tappin Twin diesel (.49 - 8cc) and it spins a 13x6 and I wan't sure if this would be enough motor for this big plane?

Thanks for the offer on the rubbers but on this size plane I might do a leading edge rod and a trailing edge screw hold down - I tend to fly my planes in ways they were not meant to and have broken to many rubber bands pulling out....................to watch the wing float down minutes after the fuse has augured in

Your plane is beautiful!

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RE: Quaker 84 Penn Valley Hobbies - 12/31/2011 8:30 PM   
safeTwire


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for the kind words!

No idea about the RPM.

Actually, After the airframe is complete and still uncovered (motor mount insert temporarily assembled & located), servos and receiver temporarily positioned at approximate final locations, you can get the approximate weight needed up front so that by adjusting the battery location, ballast will not be needed to obtain the proper CG. The TT 54 provided this correct amount of weight, that is why it was chosen!

My gut (which has been expanding constantly from Thanksgiving) tells me that allowing the wing to "wiggle" might be a good thing! The fuselage is basically square stick balsa, like an exploded size Guillow's kit, and is really not robust at all in the cabin area. Would the added weight of reinforcing the mounting areas be worth it?

Keep us posted!

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RE: Quaker 84 Penn Valley Hobbies - 1/1/2012 3:49 PM   
H5487


 

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Status: offline 		I've got a Penn Valley 84" Quaker kit in line for the next opening on the building table so I'm watching this thread closely. As for powering it, I bought a Saito .56 per GoldenAge's recommendation.

Harvey

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RE: Quaker 84 Penn Valley Hobbies - 1/1/2012 3:59 PM   
RocketRob



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Status: offline 		Good point - wing wiggle - Oh what is a model aeronautical engineer to do? - everything is a compromise.......

I looked up your motor specs and see 12 ozs and .8hp "rated" spinning 11ish props - seems like a fine motor!

My twin diesel weighs 14 ozs and on its best day makes .42hp - but is happy spinning the 13x6 prop.

If I interpolate you are not in your power band with the 13" prop, so not making "rated power" - would it be safe to guess you are not exceeding the .5hp range on this prop?

A ground rpm reading would be a big help - hint hint....

Going in to the build I know I will have a cg issue so might either shorten the nose or figure a battery pack near the tail plane.

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RE: Quaker 84 Penn Valley Hobbies - 1/1/2012 7:33 PM   
safeTwire


 

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Status: offline 		The TT engine is Ringed and was taking plenty time to break in. At first, Idle RPM for landing was undependable/hit and miss/dead stick-ish, so I upped the prop to the 13x6 for flywheel effect and ran 30% cool power.

Unfortunately for me last years work load left little time for flying, so, since the above combination of prop and fuel was working, I let it ride so when I did get to the field I could fly! I cant provide as of yet any technical data about the engines output, however, it performs extremely well now and seems to power this particular aircraft in a most enjoyable way!

Keep in mind...Both side's of the fuselage forward of the cabin, (cabin is constructed as a rectangular box) has to be "Bent" inward/together which will squeeze/hold your pre-made motor mount in place. The more you shorten this area, the more difficult it will be to bend.

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RE: Quaker 84 Penn Valley Hobbies - 1/6/2012 10:01 PM   
Brunox


 

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Hi, I'm back with my building project : Wednesday I went to a big shop to buy covering and an engine for the Quaker. I was very pleased with the beautiful covering I found, looking like tissue, transluscent cream colored. But When the seller gave me the five metersroll I was confused about the weight of it. And it seems such covering has to be sprayed with flat varnish in order to allow the cleaning of the fuel that come on it when the engine runs ! So all in all this means nearly 3 times the weight of the Oracover I used on previous planes ...  not very good on a plane supposed to be as light as possible.
On the web I found little information about Litespan, and Coverlite. Anyone knows about those coverings ?


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RE: Quaker 84 Penn Valley Hobbies - 1/7/2012 2:46 AM   
safeTwire


 

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Status: offline 		Sorry I cant be of any help about those two coverings you mentioned, I have not yet used either one.

It will be worthwhile to research various covering materials, and find out about how much a covering will shrink. This is in reference/comparison to Monokote, which I used and it shrunk with such force that it actually pulled on the lightweight fuselage framework! Monokote was used mainly because I had plenty of Black Color in stock! (Cheap-Cheap!) The framework of the wing, stab, vertical fin, elevator, and rudder is robust enough to handle the shrink power of Monokote. No so with the fuselage!

It's also worthwhile to measure the areas to be covered, and compare these figures with the supplied roll size of the covering of your interest . For example, according to dimensions of the wing Four rolls of Monokote are required! (or...one 25' roll. This covers the wing and extra for some other airframe parts.)

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RE: Quaker 84 Penn Valley Hobbies - 1/7/2012 2:50 AM   
H5487


 

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Status: offline 		You might also try good-ole silk & dope. Not the easiest method, by far, but very appropriate for the Quaker.

Harvey

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RE: Quaker 84 Penn Valley Hobbies - 1/24/2012 8:34 PM   
moparherb


 

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Status: offline 		 I'm considering the Penn Valley Quaker 84 as my next building project. Has any one ever built this airplane as an electric?  They make some pretty powerful electric motors nowadays so I was just curious. If not feasable I'll just build he 54. 

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RE: Quaker 84 Penn Valley Hobbies - 1/25/2012 12:31 AM   
evan-RCU



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Status: offline 		I have 105" and 16' (foot) Quakers that are both electric. I don't see why you can't make a little ol' 84 incher that way...

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RE: Quaker 84 Penn Valley Hobbies - 1/27/2012 3:38 AM   
RocketRob



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Status: offline 		Evan, It just dawned on me that is the plane in your avatar....

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