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RE: Gas or electric? Give it to me! - 12/25/2011 9:22 PM   
foodstick



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Status: offline 		Just wait until I get my hybrid power working.. my old glow motors will be charging on board batteries...which will supply all power to the prop....Well unless the windmill at home hasn't already pre-charged them


If only a 30 dollar electric motor sounded like a 3000 dollar radial without the sound card ....

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RE: Gas or electric? Give it to me! - 12/25/2011 9:41 PM   
da Rock



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quote:

ORIGINAL: foodstick

If only a 30 dollar electric motor sounded like a 3000 dollar radial without the sound card ....



Is that a Bicycle "sound" card? Use a couple of clothes pins to hold the cards so theY stick into the spokes..... uhhh..... into the prop, and it'd sound just like a Merlin, right? Guess you'd have to find a way to get 12 playing cards into the fan if you were going to simulate the sound of a Merlin.

Heck, who needs a sound system when cards in the spokes makes almost a perfect sound. At least when I was 10 that's what I though with playing cards sticking into the spokes of my bicycle.

GOOD CHEER, GUYS

TIS THE SEASON TO BE MERRY.






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RE: Gas or electric? Give it to me! - 12/25/2011 10:12 PM   
hugger-4641



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Status: offline 		There is no bias, I like electrics and fly them regularly. I also fly glow and gas. If I was biased I would dislike one or the other.  I like them all, perhaps because to some extent, I do understand them all.
For the most part, yours and Boomerang's statements are true, and do not conflict with what I said. Older guys do seem to understand I/C better than the younger guys. Younger guys do seem to gravitate towards electric, unless they are already mechanically inclined. Perhaps my use of the word "inept" was harsh, still accurate none the less, but you are correct, it can apply to both sides of the fence.  




quote:

ORIGINAL: vik

quote:

ORIGINAL: hugger-4641

But I'll stick to the just my statement, the majority of electric pilots who have only been flying a couple years or so choose electrics because they find them simple to operate and maintain compared to glow / gas.


I have to lough.
I fly from more than 18 years (mostly glow though) but now electric is the way to go.
Most of the things I learned about high power electric equipment are from people who fly longer time than me.

I'm afraid there is no will for real discussion. Only for bias unfortunately.







 



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RE: Gas or electric? Give it to me! - 12/25/2011 10:58 PM   
john534


 

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Status: offline 		Gas is my favorite, for most of the same reasons mentioned here... but I do own a large electric too...

what do you think about this sound?.....
Gas/Belt drive reduction/Canister exhaust/Three blade scale prop = First flight last summer...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBA8bxQQhgQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I had to LMAO after my landing.... But who ever said there is no luck in this hobby!
I cant wait to receive my Kolm IL-130 fourstroke and build my reduction to go in my CompArf Mustang...
I love the fourstroke gassers(Mokis) and am happy to see the inlines are finally starting to catch on.... Regardless of price.

Happy Holidays to all, and what ever your poison is, enjoy it!

John


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RE: Gas or electric? Give it to me! - 12/25/2011 11:08 PM   
TLH101



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Status: offline 		I have been reading "most" of this thread, I amused to say the least. Less than 3 years ago, I too made all those same arguments about gas/glow, being the only way to go, and poop-pooed electric. man now, I see just how wrong those arguments were. In just over 2 years, I have sold every glow/gas engine I had, and sold or converted all my gas/glow models. I'm an "old school" kind of guy, but gas/glow, is just archaic to me. The available options for power and scale are so much more, with electric, and nearly all the innovation these days is in electric flight. There are many, many, scale kits available for smaller electrics, and larger kits are becoming more and more available. Designers creating more plans for electric models all the time. Power systems are the same way, including motors batteries, ESCs and other airborne gadgets as well.
Electric is the "2.4" of the next decade.
Here's a couple of vids of my conversions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P25MRqDbXfY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nzzD16EwUg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqxZKMS0gWE

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RE: Gas or electric? Give it to me! - 12/26/2011 12:49 AM   
91zulu



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Status: offline 		Its really simple, it is the new flyers and the long time flyers that are tired of fiddling with IC engines, the grease clean up after a session of flying, (that`s me) the price of glow fuel now, noise and other personal reason that will go electric everything. Then there are those that would not change anything glow or gas for reason such as flight times not long enough for them or plain just don`t like electrics and other reasons. Then there is my group that will have both. 60, 40, 90 size electric, larger sizes 80 inch and up gas because we just don`t get the same RUSH and flight times flying a 100 inch Stuka, Me 109, Zero or what ever large size bird. As stated most of us that fly large plane , fly MOST of the flight at FULL THROTTLE, unless you way over power the plane and flying at half throttle you will still be zipping along. I don`t see the large size electrics that use 10s and up flying at full throttle the entire flight. It is mostly high power down the runway passes then back to half to keep batteries an ESC cool. Now I could be wrong , but if you have a set up that you are able to fly full out from take off until time to land, especially a jet let me know. I may copy your set up. Now this is for the big stuff 10s and up even 8 because I think that`s what I`ll be using in my BObcat 50 101mm fan, Scorpion set up. The smaller stuff I`m able to fly full out with no heating issues.

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RE: Gas or electric? Give it to me! - 12/26/2011 1:14 AM   
91zulu



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Also for us that still have gas planes it is also the matter of the SOUND that is stimulating to us. We would not get it with electric. You know the way a rumbling V8 or Harley does it for some, yeah like that.

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RE: Gas or electric? Give it to me! - 12/26/2011 1:54 AM   
TonyBuilder



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Status: offline 		I started out with glow, all four strokes, then after having bearing failure and the mess of glow, and the cost,  I went to gas.  Simple, inexpensive both on the front end and down the road. Again I'm new, only two years so not to much experience. I like gas because I like the sound, the feel, and the smell. They have been verry reliable and hassle free so far. I just finished my first electric war bird. My Top flite P 47 hass not been flow yet so I can't comment on it.  But the fact that it is very clean, no holes in the cowl, no mess from any fuel, all I have to do is roll out and go (hopefully). I do miss the gas factor but I am liking the clean factor. 

I just hope no one ask if they prefer 3D over scale war birds

TB


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RE: Gas or electric? Give it to me! - 12/26/2011 3:52 AM   
ram3500-RCU



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quote:

ORIGINAL: 91zulu

Ps.
Also for us that still have gas planes it is also the matter of the SOUND that is stimulating to us. We would not get it with electric. You know the way a rumbling V8 or Harley does it for some, yeah like that.

In years past, I would have given a ditto to this comment, but this year, I had the opportunity to fly an Aeroworks P-51 equipped with a Hacker 80-8 electric motor and a 22X10 prop. I could not believe my ears, but that combination sounded more like a Merlin than any gas engine I have ever had. Flying giant electric after decades of gassers takes some adjusting to, but I would actually add more realistic sound to the list of pluses, with some motor / prop combinations.

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RE: Gas or electric? Give it to me! - 12/26/2011 5:03 AM  1 votes
Love To build



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Status: offline 		I prefer them all. It depends on the airframe it's going in. I try to put the appropriate one in a plane where the motor or engine is completely concealed It's my petpeave. I see these excellent scale models and a hole had to be cut for the carb or cylinder head. I have found that the current electric technology has the power to do the job and then some. Some do sound very well also because the prop noise.

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RE: Gas or electric? Give it to me! - 12/26/2011 6:29 AM   
Sport_Pilot



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No, I am NOT "comapring cheap chineese electrics to a Moki gas". First off, my electric motors are AXI, which are made in Europe. Second, my reply was a response to someone who was comparing the sound of an $6000 Moki to the sound of en electric motor system with a sound system.


No you did not.  But Vic did whom I replied to.

quote:

That is your opinion, and you are welcome to keep it.


That was not my opinion, but my experiance.  One or more battery packs burn out before they should, or their capacity becomes much less than it should.  Not that the motors are not reliable, but that the expense of replacing battery packs makes electrics much more expensive.

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RE: Gas or electric? Give it to me! - 12/26/2011 6:31 AM   
Sport_Pilot



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See, that's the beauty. I do not need "2 more packs" I have them from my other models:-)


The fact you already have them does not make them free.  To compare xost you have to compare the price of extra battery packs.  To just have one is not worth waiting on the plane to charge, compared to filling up a glow or gas plane.

quote:

My G-26 was anemic on my Giant Stick compared to the 1.6 electric.

Well the G=26 is not a very powerful gas engine.  The DLE 30 would be more powerful than the 1.6 electric, unless you need raw static thrust which I am guessing you don't need for a stick.

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RE: Gas or electric? Give it to me! - 12/26/2011 6:41 AM   
Sport_Pilot



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You can get a Hacker German motor or Neu US motor for your setup


I think these motors are not made in Europe or US but somewhere in Asia.

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RE: Gas or electric? Give it to me! - 12/26/2011 7:04 AM   
Sport_Pilot



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Status: offline 		Actually electic is about 30% efficient if you consider the efficiency of creating the power to charge your batteries.  Also most are not considering the cost and efficiency of charging the batteries.  If one has a good peak charger and you use the battery right away the total efficiency would be about 80% for charging 90% for power, and 40% for the efficiency of generating the electricity which comes to 29%.

There is also the cost of the power to charge the batteries but that is rather small.  Probably about 25 to 30 cents to charge a 2000 Watt hr battery.

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RE: Gas or electric? Give it to me! - 12/26/2011 7:10 AM   
Sport_Pilot



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quote:

ORIGINAL: jessiej


quote:

ORIGINAL: Garyav16

I've flown all three and now only have Gas and Electric. I would say it depends where you can fly. If noise is a problem then electric is the way to go. Some say that electric is hassle free. However, I can attest that that isn't so. I had a nice Sebart Wind 110 pattern plane with a Castle 80HV that just blew up during flight. So much for no problems.

Now Gas for me is the way to go. $3.50 for a gallon of gas beats $30 for 30% nitro. The mess is not one of my problems with nitro.

Here is the question. Would you own an Electric Harley Davison or will they every make one because they want to go green? HELL NO! Big Kids fly Gas! LOL

Grown man gets a 30.06 to hunt with and a kids gets a BB gun.

Gas = 30.06
Nitro = .22
Electric = BB gun




BB gun= all time classic. starting place and everyday entertainment for champions. Quiet and useful in urban settings. Stepping stone to megabuck airguns like the Feinwerkbau.

.22= Most developed and successful cartridge in history. Supremely accurate as well as economical it is the standard for international competition from free pistol through Biathlon. Small game cartridge supreme and, sadly, often the choice of professional assassins.

.30-06= US military round from 1903 through most of the 50s. Extremely successful as a hunting round has taken every species on the planet. Remains very popular despite many newer cartridges.

Which is best?

jess


Air guns have been used by assassins.  Some very powerful purpose built ones are out there.


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RE: Gas or electric? Give it to me! - 12/26/2011 7:30 AM   
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RE: Gas or electric? Give it to me! - 12/26/2011 1:35 PM  1 votes
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ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

Actually electic is about 30% efficient if you consider the efficiency of creating the power to charge your batteries.  Also most are not considering the cost and efficiency of charging the batteries.  If one has a good peak charger and you use the battery right away the total efficiency would be about 80% for charging 90% for power, and 40% for the efficiency of generating the electricity which comes to 29%.

There is also the cost of the power to charge the batteries but that is rather small.  Probably about 25 to 30 cents to charge a 2000 Watt hr battery.



Any point in this? Let's face it we could care less about efficiency. This is about having fun:-) Nobody needs RC, it is a hobby. So, let''s have fun with our toys... No efficiency here, I drive an SUV, with a V-8.

Gerry

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RE: Gas or electric? Give it to me! - 12/26/2011 1:43 PM   
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ORIGINAL: ram3500-RCU

If you have dealt with any of the giant scale size motors out there, you know they are definitely not child's play. They swing the same size props as their gas counterparts, plus you have the added danger of dealing with 45v or more pushed by very high amperage. You need to have a healthy respect for the power being used, and handle it carefully.



Yes, instant 3HP plus applied to a 19/21 inch meat chopper is very dangerous thing. I am installing Maxx Products kill switches this week in 2 of my big electric models. Easy to reach from outside, they kill the hi voltage/amp circuit instantly. Once this is done, you turn the RX switch off. Almost had an accident 2 weeks ago. Had the radio in the left while reaching for the RX switch, and accidentally I moved the left stick a little. Of course I would never be in the blade's way, but I was close enough to not make it a fun thing. To make thing worst the switch is in a bad place (under the wing), and can only be accessed from the front, reaching then under the wing. Lesson learned. Switch has to be easy to access standing behind the model, and there has to me a kill switch. Better safe than sorry.

Gerry


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RE: Gas or electric? Give it to me! - 12/26/2011 2:09 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GerKonig

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

Actually electic is about 30% efficient if you consider the efficiency of creating the power to charge your batteries.  Also most are not considering the cost and efficiency of charging the batteries.  If one has a good peak charger and you use the battery right away the total efficiency would be about 80% for charging 90% for power, and 40% for the efficiency of generating the electricity which comes to 29%.

There is also the cost of the power to charge the batteries but that is rather small.  Probably about 25 to 30 cents to charge a 2000 Watt hr battery.


Any point in this? Let's face it we could care less about efficiency. This is about having fun:-) Nobody needs RC, it is a hobby. So, let''s have fun with our toys... No efficiency here, I drive an SUV, with a V-8.

Gerry

Some of the gas & glow people have reached the (mistaken) conclusion that we (electric flyers) are doing it for efficiency and/ or/ because it's 'greener'. I've already stated that I doubt that eletric power is any 'greener' than fuel power, but the wrong assumptions continue. You can't convince some of these fuel guys that they are all wrong about us, they think they have us all figured out: but they don't. We can explain, and explain again, but it won't help.

BTW: I drive a Hemi Ram, and ride a Harley (more 'fuel efficient' than most cars, but a long way from being the most efficient motorcycle). Wife drives a Pontiac Vibe. It COULD have been a 30+ mpg vehicle, if we hadn't opted for the optional hi-perf engine. No Prius in my garage. Never has been, never will be.

This discussion isn't about efficiency, it's about what some of us feel are the best way to power a warbird. By "best", it is varying degress of looks (retaining scale looks), performance, reliability, ease of maintenance (altho most of us are not 'I.C. engine challenged' by any stretch of the imgination), and fun factor.

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RE: Gas or electric? Give it to me! - 12/26/2011 3:17 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GerKonig


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

Actually electic is about 30% efficient if you consider the efficiency of creating the power to charge your batteries.  Also most are not considering the cost and efficiency of charging the batteries.  If one has a good peak charger and you use the battery right away the total efficiency would be about 80% for charging 90% for power, and 40% for the efficiency of generating the electricity which comes to 29%.

There is also the cost of the power to charge the batteries but that is rather small.  Probably about 25 to 30 cents to charge a 2000 Watt hr battery.



Any point in this? Let's face it we could care less about efficiency. This is about having fun:-) Nobody needs RC, it is a hobby. So, let''s have fun with our toys... No efficiency here, I drive an SUV, with a V-8.

Gerry




Bingo Gerry! I have heard a lot of people brag about what their airplanes can do but have never heard anyone say "Hey I used to get 15 flights from a gallon of gas, but after switching to a more efficient engine, I now get 16 flights per gal."

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RE: Gas or electric? Give it to me! - 12/26/2011 6:29 PM   
Ron101



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As stated most of us that fly large plane , fly MOST of the flight at FULL THROTTLE, unless you way over power the plane and flying at half throttle you will still be zipping along. I don`t see the large size electrics that use 10s and up flying at full throttle the entire flight. It is mostly high power down the runway passes then back to half to keep batteries an ESC cool. Now I could be wrong , but if you have a set up that you are able to fly full out from take off until time to land, especially a jet let me know.


As I long time E pilot I would agree that we fly with much more throttle managment than a gas pilot... but I enjoy that part of my flight routine. Full power to the top of the loop...then power off on the down side to maintain the same speed. With large jets where just pulling to high of amps to keep it fire walled. Not to mention that it can shake you up flying 180 mph with a $5000 dollar jets full power for a whole flight
Smaller jets like my Habu 32 can go full power the whole flight.... but I mix the power setting to make the flight look nice. I do have a 60 sized P-51 with a hacker A-50-12L with a 16x12 prop and a castle 80 amp ESC with a 6s 30c 5000 mah thnuder power that has no problem flying full power the whole flight on a 90+ degree day... I've done it. But still like to mix my throttle settings



quote:

In years past, I would have given a ditto to this comment, but this year, I had the opportunity to fly an Aeroworks P-51 equipped with a Hacker 80-8 electric motor and a 22X10 prop. I could not believe my ears, but that combination sounded more like a Merlin than any gas engine I have ever had. Flying giant electric after decades of gassers takes some adjusting to, but I would actually add more realistic sound to the list of pluses, with some motor / prop combinations.


So glad someone agrees with me on this point... until you have been at the field to hear a props tips break the speed of sound you don't know what your missing. Most gas planes can't spin the RPM needed to make that sound... it sure is sweet!! my GS P-51 does this and mixed with the sound system it's really sweet! I hope you all get the chance to hear one this season at your local field. Videos just don't do this sound justice, it has to be heard in person

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RE: Gas or electric? Give it to me! - 12/26/2011 9:23 PM   
John Taylor


 

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RE: Gas or electric? Give it to me! - 12/26/2011 11:11 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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quote:

ORIGINAL: GerKonig


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

Actually electic is about 30% efficient if you consider the efficiency of creating the power to charge your batteries.  Also most are not considering the cost and efficiency of charging the batteries.  If one has a good peak charger and you use the battery right away the total efficiency would be about 80% for charging 90% for power, and 40% for the efficiency of generating the electricity which comes to 29%.

There is also the cost of the power to charge the batteries but that is rather small.  Probably about 25 to 30 cents to charge a 2000 Watt hr battery.



Any point in this? Let's face it we could care less about efficiency. This is about having fun:-) Nobody needs RC, it is a hobby. So, let''s have fun with our toys... No efficiency here, I drive an SUV, with a V-8.

Gerry



There was no point other than the electrics are not as efficient as you think.  The only reason any electric vehicle is more efficient is that the power plant's engines are much more efficient than a small engine.  By small that includes the large full scae truck engines.  Nothing other than tech information.

< Message edited by Sport_Pilot -- 12/27/2011 9:47 PM >

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RE: Gas or electric? Give it to me! - 12/26/2011 11:31 PM   
lflf


 

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Status: offline 		I have a battered Superstik with an OS 40 fx resting in the rafters of my garage. I take it out and fly it a couple of times a month. When it croaks I plan to get an electric, but the plane is like a cat with 9 lives. I do want to get into electric, but with so much glow stuff laying around it makes it difficult. Kind of like teaching an old dog new tricks, I'm an old dog.

< Message edited by lflf -- 12/27/2011 7:01 PM >

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RE: Gas or electric? Give it to me! - 12/27/2011 3:44 AM   
ram3500-RCU



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Status: offline 		Kinda makin brain surgery out of this when talking efficiency here, IMO.

Now cost, that is a very real concern, or can be at least.

What I have found is that giant scale nitro can cost more than gas, both in equipment and fuel. However, electric can eclipse them both. Motors and speed controls are about a wash with the giant gasser, but the batteries, now that is expensive. And then there is the support equipment. Again, electric is at the top of that list as well. You are not saving money when going electric, but you may save a field or two from reduced noise, and your airframe will possibly last longer and certainly be much cleaner, in your vehicle, storage, and at the field.

_____________________________

Cheers,
Gary P. / use Steel Powder for ballast not lead. PM me for more information.

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(in reply to CorsairJock)
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