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Using a closed road for an airfield - 12/29/2011 9:10 PM   
acdii


 

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From: Capron, IL, USA
Status: offline 		 There is a road near me that has been closed due to the bridge being in disrepair, and most likely will never be repaired.  There are no homes or buildings at all on this stretch of road either, just open farm land, in fact, NO POWER LINES!    It would make an excellent flying field, runway already in place and very long.  The only issue I see would be parking, but can be resolved as long as flyers dont mind a short hike across the bridge.   I also believe the local farmers wouldnt mind setting aside a short strip of land next to the road for us.   It is way out in the country too, so even jets wouldn't be an issue. 

SO what would it take to go about getting this turned into a flying club field? 


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RE: Using a closed road for an airfield - 12/29/2011 9:18 PM   
Red Scholefield



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RE: Using a closed road for an airfield - 12/29/2011 9:49 PM   
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RE: Using a closed road for an airfield - 12/29/2011 10:02 PM   
acdii


 

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Status: offline 		County and the farmers, that could be done easily enough, the trick will be getting enough people who would actually fly from there too.  Up around me the nearest flying field is at least 15 + miles away, and the only hobby shops that sell planes cater to the electric crowd, mainly since there are no good flying fields anymore.

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RE: Using a closed road for an airfield - 12/29/2011 11:25 PM   
warningshot



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quote:

ORIGINAL: mongo

permission from all the involved owning entitys.

Getting permission should be the first thing you do.

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RE: Using a closed road for an airfield - 12/30/2011 12:54 AM   
Red Scholefield



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RE: Using a closed road for an airfield - 12/30/2011 1:07 AM   
Desertlakesflying


 

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Status: offline 		Roads are great and with the current economy many will be desolate for a long time....well at least the next year.....

We fly at a dead end in the middle of nowhere and it is great.

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We also have an assortment of dry lake beds.....

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RE: Using a closed road for an airfield - 12/30/2011 2:32 AM   
Upnet



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Status: offline 		Just get a couple of friends and fly there. You want a Club?...then join that one you mentioned.15 miles away. Just go fly and enjoy. Until or unless someone tells you not to. Better to ask for forgiveness.....than to ask for permission. You got a diamond in the rough. Enjoy!

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RE: Using a closed road for an airfield - 12/30/2011 3:23 AM   
Tarasdad



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Status: offline 		Our club uses one of the dozens of disused roads in the area. The city knows about it and doesn't have a problem with us using it as our field.

As stated above contact Tony Stillman at AMA. He should be able to steer you in the right direction.

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RE: Using a closed road for an airfield - 12/30/2011 6:03 AM   
KidEpoxy



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Status: offline 		I used to belong to a group of streetflyers,
we used the last street in a desolate part of a corporate complexes area on the weekends.
A huge vacant double lot on one side amid massive parking lots (NoFly) safety buffers.
This was so deserted onthe weekends that the cops used it to calibrate their radars at speed.

Now, we didnt ask, and the cops were of the No Harm No Foul mindset, they liked to watch us fly sometimes.
Of course if we asked the city for permission to close the street so we can play
I bet we would suddenly find a very official No, Thats Illegal and the cops would be shutting us down rather than not caring.
Remember, once an owner actually directly says "No", then you cant fly there and say you didnt know you werent supposed to.
It like the difference between huntin in some woods, and huntin in some woods surrounded by purple posts (no, not recycled water )

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RE: Using a closed road for an airfield - 1/2/2012 2:52 AM   
jester_s1


 

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Status: offline 		You get permission before starting a single engine. As started above, your AMA dues pay for a staff member who helps get flying sites for a living. He's there for you to use, so use him. The route suggested above of just going and doing it might work out fine, or it might get you into some real trouble and close the door for the site to ever be given for an airfield. I knew guys who would conveniently not notice posted signs when hunting too. For one, it cost him a $10,000 fine in Colorado for shooting a bull elk about 10 feet across a property line along with having to hire a lawyer and spending his vacation in jail.

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RE: Using a closed road for an airfield - 1/2/2012 4:12 AM   
littlecrankshaf



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quote:

ORIGINAL: acdii

 There is a road near me that has been closed due to the bridge being in disrepair, and most likely will never be repaired.  There are no homes or buildings at all on this stretch of road either, just open farm land, in fact, NO POWER LINES!    It would make an excellent flying field, runway already in place and very long.  The only issue I see would be parking, but can be resolved as long as flyers dont mind a short hike across the bridge.   I also believe the local farmers wouldnt mind setting aside a short strip of land next to the road for us.   It is way out in the country too, so even jets wouldn't be an issue. 

SO what would it take to go about getting this turned into a flying club field? 



Heck, Providing the neighbors didn’t care I’d just fly there and see if interest grows and then see if those that fly there wanted the headaches of a club...but if you like jumping through hoops do as suggested in post #2.

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RE: Using a closed road for an airfield - 1/2/2012 11:50 PM   
KenP


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jester_s1

You get permission before starting a single engine. As started above, your AMA dues pay for a staff member who helps get flying sites for a living. He's there for you to use, so use him. The route suggested above of just going and doing it might work out fine, or it might get you into some real trouble and close the door for the site to ever be given for an airfield. I knew guys who would conveniently not notice posted signs when hunting too. For one, it cost him a $10,000 fine in Colorado for shooting a bull elk about 10 feet across a property line along with having to hire a lawyer and spending his vacation in jail.



Need to clarify AMA has a staff member that helps clubs NOT individual members on site issues. I have asked the AMA for that assistance in the past and asked the question directly to the AMA a few years ago on their forum. The AMA has no direct rules against helping individual members but they have no idea how to do it so they tell you to form a club and follow that process. So if you want to go the club route and use the site insurance remember that restricts the site to only AMA members which could ruffle a few feathers since the site was available to everyone previously.

I would not equate hunt laws to flying a small electric plane.

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RE: Using a closed road for an airfield - 1/3/2012 2:46 AM   
littlecrankshaf



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quote:

ORIGINAL: jester_s1
AMA dues pay for a staff member who helps get flying sites for a living. He's there for you to use, so use him.



this is confusing...some people get paid and some don’t...wonder how you get a gravy job like that?? must take a strong background in flying field acquisition work with other companies before even being considered at AMA.

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RE: Using a closed road for an airfield - 1/3/2012 2:52 PM   
K-Bob


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenP

Need to clarify AMA has a staff member that helps clubs NOT individual members on site issues. I have asked the AMA for that assistance in the past and asked the question directly to the AMA a few years ago on their forum. The AMA has no direct rules against helping individual members but they have no idea how to do it so they tell you to form a club and follow that process. So if you want to go the club route and use the site insurance remember that restricts the site to only AMA members which could ruffle a few feathers since the site was available to everyone previously.

I would not equate hunt laws to flying a small electric plane.


Actually, this is misleading as well as incorrect.

It would restrict the club to AMA members only. The AMA has no power to restrict flying site access. Only the land owner has that power.



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RE: Using a closed road for an airfield - 1/3/2012 3:13 PM   
littlecrankshaf



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quote:

ORIGINAL: K-Bob


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenP

Need to clarify AMA has a staff member that helps clubs NOT individual members on site issues. I have asked the AMA for that assistance in the past and asked the question directly to the AMA a few years ago on their forum. The AMA has no direct rules against helping individual members but they have no idea how to do it so they tell you to form a club and follow that process. So if you want to go the club route and use the site insurance remember that restricts the site to only AMA members which could ruffle a few feathers since the site was available to everyone previously.

I would not equate hunt laws to flying a small electric plane.


Actually, this is misleading as well as incorrect.

It would restrict the club to AMA members only. The AMA has no power to restrict flying site access. Only the land owner has that power.




Not misleading at all...the common interpretation is just as Ken said... although technically you are right, the reality differs... Ask 100 clubs whether they can allow non-AMA flyers and all 100 will likely say NO...

AMA has done a lot of word smithing to instill this exclusionary policy firmly in the minds of clubs and club members... It is reinforced here again and again as well...Even AMA officials have argued this very point with me...They are usually uniformed or misinformed or just plain deceptive about this point of contention. That’s the reality...

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RE: Using a closed road for an airfield - 1/3/2012 4:36 PM   
VKGT



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Status: offline 		Do you have any pics?


Around here we have a lot of dry lakes which are amazing for testing and flying our airplanes (especially the big ones) though I know of a handful of good closed roads that could be good flying sites as well



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RE: Using a closed road for an airfield - 1/3/2012 4:59 PM   
acdii


 

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Status: offline 		Here is what I found about the AMA and flying fields.  Clubs that lease the land for the flying field can impose the restriction, but on public shared land that a club uses, they cannot impose such restrictions. 

However, if the government that owns the public land that has a flying field has such a restriction, then it must be followed, if they don't have such a restriction(which in today's sue happy world, is poor judgement), then anyone can fly with or without an AMA card. 

As far as this road goes, it is in the middle of farm land, and until they replace the bridge, will remain closed to all traffic, they don't even plow it anymore.   I plan to contact the county before the spring arrives and determine if I can find other flyers interested in flying in this area to see if it is feasible to start a club and acquire the road as a flying field. 

I haven't been down the road yet to the bridge, so I don't know if there is room alongside for parking yet, but it has been on my mind for a few weeks and thought, while i'm here, let me ask. 


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RE: Using a closed road for an airfield - 1/3/2012 6:37 PM   
Red Scholefield



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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf


Not misleading at all...the common interpretation is just as Ken said... although technically you are right, the reality differs... Ask 100 clubs whether they can allow non-AMA flyers and all 100 will likely say NO...

AMA has done a lot of word smithing to instill this exclusionary policy firmly in the minds of clubs and club members... It is reinforced here again and again as well...Even AMA officials have argued this very point with me...They are usually uniformed or misinformed or just plain deceptive about this point of contention. That’s the reality...


Does your club, Texas Unlimited Fun Flyers allow non-AMA members to fly at your field?


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RE: Using a closed road for an airfield - 1/3/2012 8:29 PM   
cj_rumley


 

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ORIGINAL: Red Scholefield

Does your club, Texas Unlimited Fun Flyers allow non-AMA members to fly at your field?



As a TUFF member,  I can answer that:  It's none of your business.

Cletus



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RE: Using a closed road for an airfield - 1/3/2012 8:39 PM   
Red Scholefield



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ORIGINAL: cj_rumley


quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Scholefield

Does your club, Texas Unlimited Fun Flyers allow non-AMA members to fly at your field?



As a TUFF member,  I can answer that:  It's none of your business.

Cletus




Thanks for your reply. It confirms what some of us have thought. 141 members claimed to get donations for events. I expect half of those members don't live within 100 miles of Tyler Tx.


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RE: Using a closed road for an airfield - 1/3/2012 10:01 PM   
Silent-AV8R



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quote:

ORIGINAL: acdii

However, if the government that owns the public land that has a flying field has such a restriction, then it must be followed, if they don't have such a restriction(which in today's sue happy world, is poor judgement), then anyone can fly with or without an AMA card. 


Some examples from around LA:

PVMAC in Prado Regional Park - AMA required by County. Club members during the week, guests OK on weekends.
Whittier Narrows field - AMA required by County
Sepulveda Basin - AMA not required except when entering an AMA sanctioned event
OCRCC in El Toro Great Park - AMA required, club members and guests only.
Santa Fe Dam field - AMA required and club members/guests only.
Torrey Pines Slope Site (Torrey Pines Park) - AMA required (plus a checkout)


We fly helis off a dead end road in Moreno Valley, CA. It is long and straight and ends in the middle of a huge field. We park on one side, use the road as a runway and fly over a giant field to the north of the east/west road. Local Sheriff and CHP have stopped by, never an issue. AMA not required, but encouraged by peer pressure.


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RE: Using a closed road for an airfield - 1/4/2012 12:38 AM   
littlecrankshaf



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Scholefield


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf


Not misleading at all...the common interpretation is just as Ken said... although technically you are right, the reality differs... Ask 100 clubs whether they can allow non-AMA flyers and all 100 will likely say NO...

AMA has done a lot of word smithing to instill this exclusionary policy firmly in the minds of clubs and club members... It is reinforced here again and again as well...Even AMA officials have argued this very point with me...They are usually uniformed or misinformed or just plain deceptive about this point of contention. That’s the reality...


Does your club, Texas Unlimited Fun Flyers allow non-AMA members to fly at your field?



Red,

You was once a member...ask yourself...LOL

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RE: Using a closed road for an airfield - 1/4/2012 12:44 AM   
Red Scholefield



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ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf


You was once a member...ask yourself...LOL



Until it dawned on me what a sham your were running.


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RE: Using a closed road for an airfield - 1/4/2012 1:51 AM   
JUGFLIER


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Scholefield


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf


You was once a member...ask yourself...LOL



Until it dawned on me what a sham your were running.




You mean like the sham D5 forums?

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