Seagull Super Tucano

Seagull Super Tucano (Full Version)

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ceecrb1 -> Seagull Super Tucano (1/4/2012 8:54 PM)
As I cant find ANYTHING about this plane in any forum... going to start talking about mine! Mine has JUST arrived at last! After paying for a 24 hour delivery, it finally arrived 2 weeks after it was meant to as the courier messed up.... I think its been all over spain as the box had taken a beating, the plane has a few minor marks on it but nothing that the iron and cyano was´nt able to fix in under 5 minutes. 1st impressions.. The covering is great! I saw no need to iron it over! There are a lot of parts to this ARF. there is very little really done by seagull, but as someone who enjoys building, but does not trust his own skills to build a plane straight (I have tried an ALL were bananas!) I really like this options, I have a basic fuse and wings, but the rest I have to do, even the pilots and canopy are not installed as are none of the hinges etc. IT also comes with removable long range tanks and missiles! NO idea where I am going to store them! They arnt small!!! I also really liked that it has spilt flaps, and the inside of the split is painted white for added scale look. They even painted the hanging points for the ordinance. Its bigger than I thought! Its the same size (almost) as my goldwing/redwing MX2 30cc... The fine details are really nice, lots of fins and antennas and pilots etc to glue on if I want later! The wing tube is really heavy.. but each wing is held in by 2 nylon screws.. I have test fitted the wings and they are ROCK solid in place.. they slot into a really nice fit! The shop even gave me a gift of an entire packet of 10 mini (1g) cyano tubes for taking to the field! They turned out GREAT for doing the CA hinges! I ordered mine with a dle 20. A few things I have noticed before I bought it (as I got the manual online http://secure.hobbyzone.com/catalog/hz/rcplanes/planes_seagull/SEA2585.html ) Mounting a fuel tank for a gas setup is going to be a real pain! The glow tank has its specifically shaped hole inside the fuse all ready, and as usual goes right up to the firewall. There are 2 problems here: 1, with gas tank so far forward, the tygon will be pressed up against the DLE 20's rear carb... 2, the dubro gas stopper is too small for this tank. The tank's location is RIGHT inside the nose, in an inaccessible area... So I'm leaving this stage for a while as I need to think it over..... The next flaw in this plane is the retract system. It uses 1 and only 1 servo for all 3 retracts... Yes I said that right.... removable wings but the retract servo in the fuse..(check the manual). They intend "us" to disconnect the pushrods every time.. NO THANKS!!! So I have bought some eflite electric retracts (90-120).. They are a perfect fit. I have the wing retracts already installed, it really was as easy as screwing in a servo. The engine standoffs were 5mm too much together for the dle20, but 10 mins shaving off nylon fixed that... I've test fitted, the LE of the mounting plate of the dle 20 measures EXACTLY to the end of the standoffs to reach its mounting point.. will be really easy to line up to the end of the standoffs to get it straight! The undercarriage mounting blocks on the wings are "hardwood" and they say to predrill with a 2mm bit before inserting a 3mm screw.. They need to be epoxied in place first..... and in the end.. they split!! I managed to save 2 of them by re-drilling with a larger bit but I need to have another think on how to rescue the split ones.... Would´ve been better if they were ply rather than sold wood.. After so much attention to detail, I find it really silly that the plane arrives with a RED spinner when the original plane has a black spinner.... Not a big issue, nor expensive.. Just not sure why they would do that after going to so much effort in other areas. I´m using analogue servos (tower pro sg-5010) for everything.. so In the end to save from messing about every flying day I am using multiplex multipin connectors for the servos. 2 +ve pins, 1 -ve and a for each of the 3 servos in each wing.... all made into a special Y cable for each function going straight to the RX... Should make things really fast, and i'll NEVER mix up servo wires!!! Anyway.. like always.. these threads are useless without pics... so here are some of how far I have gotten in 2 evenings work... Now what shall I do next........

rk212 -> RE: Seagull Super Tucano (1/6/2012 2:45 PM)
Subscribed! Pure coincidence I purchased this kit yesterday and am also going with the same setup DLE20, EFlites etc. Know what you mean about the red spinner... does seem strange? . Maybe Seagull had a few thousand left over from another kit Had a good read through your post and had a few initial questions if you can help.... 1. Wing Tube - Did you possibly think about replacing this tube at all? Would a carbon tube work just as well and without the weight? 3. DLE - DLE20 runs a 16" prop is there enough height clearance with EFlite struts? 4. Fuel Tank - Are you going to replace the tank with a gas version? I'm thinking of going with a dubro. Any ideas on what size would fit? 5. Undercarriage - Any more tips on mounting the EFlites? Did you mean the mounting blocks should be epoxied first? 5. Total Weight - Any indication on your total weight with everythnig fitted would be really good to know :) Looking forward to seeing more of your posts and pics! I hope to be posting pics here also soon All the best, Ryan

ceecrb1 -> RE: Seagull Super Tucano (1/6/2012 2:54 PM)
1: Yeah I might later look for a carbon tube... Maybe I just think its "heavy" as I am used to 3d planes with carbon tubes.. once I see how it flys i'll think about if I need to loose weight or not... 2: The Eflite struts arrive REALLY long.. I cut them so that they matched the kit's struts.. and yeah its kinda close to the ground with a prop on! Yesterday I ordered a black spinner and added in a 15x8 prop as well, the extra inch should make it very acceptable. With the 16 there IS ok clearance.. but If there is any large stones on the runway I dont think I could guarantee not hitting them.. 3. Yes I used those blocks.. I guess its just a case of increasing the drill bit size a tiny amount. 4. I just happen to have here a new hayes 11oz tank which its "ok" I had to shove the dremel in the hole where the tank goes and squre off the round hole where the tank goes, its a really snug fit.. so I now am just locking it in place with some ply pieces.. from above and below it is held by the uc-bay and the cockpit... so in front just a ply wedge and the same behind (when its time). 5. Not finnished yet.... we shall see. Updates.. Boy you are gonna HATE the fuselage and the fuel tank area.. there is NO access. Its a shame as its a massive open space that is great for the DLE ignition. but you'll never get your hands in to secure it there! ALso they didnt drill the throttle linkage holes in the former that supports the fuel tank, again in the middle of this inaccessible fuse!... more fun! Today I REALLY enlarged the hole in the firewall (where the tank is supported normally) if anything because I dont need it to support the tank and I was fed up trying to fish for things all the ferking time! I now have the wings completed, all servos installed, and all control surfaces moving... Will do some more photos later! More importantly!! You will need to order other 3" wheels!! the hub size is too large on the supplied ones to use with the eflite retracts. I have them installed at the moment but only so that they support the plane when I decided to put the wings on and drool over it hahaha.

rk212 -> RE: Seagull Super Tucano (1/6/2012 4:04 PM)
Thanks for quick response ceecrb1 I may try a 15x10 with it and see what the rpm's come out. May be touching rev limit on a 15x8 but I will check? 11oz tank is small! but I guess the fuz is quite narrow also. I was thinking at least a 20oz. Yeah I was thinking making a hole in the firewall for DLE. Was this for the rear carb to fit? Are you using the stock muffler with the DLE? I'm guessing that the stock muffler wont fit inside the cowl? Maybe a nice pitts... I am still wating for mine to be delivered so am still drowling over your pics haha

ceecrb1 -> RE: Seagull Super Tucano (1/6/2012 4:21 PM)
yeah i´m going with the stock muffler for now... spent enough cash haha I know there are shops already selling replacement parts so if I get a pitts later i'll just get a new cowel too. I chose the prop from the DLE20 website and its list of recommended props.... we shall see. Yeah the rear carb fits fine.. but getting a velocity stack in there would mean even more firewall hacking.. I have been using a 10oz tank with my DLE 30, and landing after 10 mins with at least 1/3rd of a tank left over.... so 11oz doesnt bother me too much, remember that gas engines use up FAR less fuel than glow. Since these photos were taken a few hours ago, I have installed the throttle pushrod and I have something setup to support the choke pushrod. next stage is work out the ignition location I think.... and maybe a photo of "as is" with the wings on etc :D I also need to sit an think whether I will use the pull-pull system for the nosewheel steering or if I will add another servo........ not quite sure, need to think it over.

rk212 -> RE: Seagull Super Tucano (1/6/2012 4:44 PM)
Just looked your right the DLE site does say 15x8. Would be keen to hear your thoughts once you run it... I forget sometime how much more fuel effecient petrol is. I like the bung on petrol tanks to be super tight so probably will replace with a dubro Is there much room for nosewheel steering pull-pull system? How many servos in total does the kit require please? (minus gear servo if go with EFlites )

ceecrb1 -> RE: Seagull Super Tucano (1/6/2012 4:48 PM)
only altering the retracts it is: 1 throttle 2 aileron 2 flap 1 rudder 1 elevator (7 total). What I said in my first post. a dubro bung will not fit the supplied tank, it comes with a larger diameter opening......

rk212 -> RE: Seagull Super Tucano (1/6/2012 4:55 PM)
Ok so standard 7 servo setup + 1extra for nose steering setup. Does the elevator come with a double pushrod system? I felt the DLE will definately put more G's through the plane. What do you think? Sorry yes going replace with a Dubro tank 10 or 12oz depending on what fits!

ceecrb1 -> RE: Seagull Super Tucano (1/6/2012 6:42 PM)
yeah its a double pushrod for the elevators. Some more photos from this evening. Enough for today I think... Going to take a break from the plane and pass some time playing assassin's creed hehehe At the moment it is QUITE tail heavy... although I know there is no muffler, no cowel, prop or spinner and the battery is just tied in to be able to power the servos etc, its not a "set" location.... We shall see...

rk212 -> RE: Seagull Super Tucano (1/6/2012 7:28 PM)
Pics looking great. Your work is very neat i must say! Are you running two separate Batt packs for servos and ignition? What size packs did you use for each? Looking great now it's just what to do with those strange looking pilots!

ceecrb1 -> RE: Seagull Super Tucano (1/6/2012 7:36 PM)
I havnt decided yet about the battery situation....

ceecrb1 -> RE: Seagull Super Tucano (1/7/2012 1:50 AM)
Another update: I now have the nosewheel steering installed.. Good god what a mess they made of it! And its obvious, kind of annoyed I didnt notice the problem myself! I decided to try the pull-pull system, so I got on and installed it and noticed 2 big problems. First it was fouling with the throttle pushrod and connector, so I had to "invert" that so that the connector is under the servo arm rather than ontop as normal.. the 2nd was that the cable tighteners are the PERFECT length to jam against the body of the throttle servo when the gear is retracted and the plane inverted..... (see first pic in this post) SO.. in the end i've removed that, and used sold pushrods left over from the retract system I didnt use and installed that...it wasnt exactly easy either.. once retracted I was unable to get full left rudder but right wasnt a problem... not sure why, technically it should be ok but somewhere it is messing up..... I´ll just look at it again with a clear head after a break doing something else.

ceecrb1 -> RE: Seagull Super Tucano (1/7/2012 5:56 PM)
Well the build is coming to an end! I have got the cowl installed and cut, pilots and seats installed, some of the stickers done, fuel dot and some other things. One thing I have done to the cowl is really open up the "chin" air inlet.. I basically sanded away the rim... I know its a scale model but I still prefer it to be a little ugly and not deadstick than overhead and be pretty! The BEST bit is that having just zip tied in a 2300 LIFE for testing/setup, I have just mounted the prop and red spinner (a black one is on the way) and tested for the C/G.... check the photo!! Hows that for luck!! It just means I only need to add an ignition battery near the C/G and there shouldnt be too much work, I may even just go with a 2200mah 3s lipo and 2 BEC´s.... I have time to think it over before the last few things arrive. I'm only waiting for the wheels for these hubs, canopy glue (its just taped for show atm), black spinner and a 15" prop.. (see photo of clearance with 16"). I have also been "lazy" but inventive I think.. Getting the air line for the fuel tank back for its loop was a real pain, and again its way inside the fuse.. so I pulled it through with a string, then tied that string to a part inside the fuse to keep the loop in place! I think it can be called a very simple, light and effective setup (i´ll do a photo later).

ceecrb1 -> RE: Seagull Super Tucano (1/9/2012 8:39 PM)
Next update: FINNISHED!! Ready for a maiden this weekend! In the end i'm powering it with a 2300mah life and using diodes to step down the power to ignition. The wheels I got were perfect: "Dubro 3" Super Lite Wheels" As was the black spinner: Great Planes 3-1/4" Nylon Spinner with Aluminium Backplate. Fotos to come later once the canopy glue has dried and its not covered in tape!

rk212 -> RE: Seagull Super Tucano (1/10/2012 11:06 AM)
Excellent news! you literally flew through that build What did the total weight end up being? Looking forward to hearing your review of maiden flight with the DLE20!! Try and video if you can too!

ceecrb1 -> RE: Seagull Super Tucano (1/10/2012 7:03 PM)
yeah I deliberately ordered the model knowing I had some time off work so managed to really get stuck into it! Really looking forward to saturday! Scales have it weighing at 4.5KG

nefariousrc -> RE: Seagull Super Tucano (1/13/2012 4:25 AM)
Great build but that 15x8 prop is to small.. Even a 15x10 unloads enough in the air to put you over 9k. If you absolutely must run a 15" prop then you should go to a 3 blade to load the DLE 20 more.

rk212 -> RE: Seagull Super Tucano (1/13/2012 8:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: nefariousrc Great build but that 15x8 prop is to small.. Even a 15x10 unloads enough in the air to put you over 9k. If you absolutely must run a 15" prop then you should go to a 3 blade to load the DLE 20 more. Hi nefariousrc, welcome to the thread!Do you have any data on the DLE20 with 15x8 or 15x10 props please?Did you have an experience with this?DLE themselves have said a 15x8 would work. I can't imagine they would recommend if it could over-rev or blow DLE

ceecrb1 -> RE: Seagull Super Tucano (1/13/2012 8:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: nefariousrc Great build but that 15x8 prop is to small.. Even a 15x10 unloads enough in the air to put you over 9k. If you absolutely must run a 15'' prop then you should go to a 3 blade to load the DLE 20 more. I'm not saying you are wrong, but the 15x8 is on the dle 20 website as recommended... http://www.dle-engines.com/dleg0020.html Going to go and do some "homework" online to see if I can find anything else written about this. Seems like something I really need to check out tomorrow at the club with the tachometer....

ceecrb1 -> RE: Seagull Super Tucano (1/14/2012 1:16 PM)
Photos from the 2nd flight! https://picasaweb.google.com/106637193211645499353/14112TucanoMaiden?authuser=0&feat=directlink Video to follow, unfortunately the people filming did a great job of filming out of focus sky, I'll see what I can rescue....

rk212 -> RE: Seagull Super Tucano (1/14/2012 4:33 PM)
Brilliant well done on maiden! Nice picsWhat's your full thoughts on it? Engine choice, CG, weight, flaps for landing, prop etc etc?Much expo or rates change?

ceecrb1 -> RE: Seagull Super Tucano (1/14/2012 4:44 PM)
flaps.. I found about 50% of a servos full travel was enough.... any more and it really ballooned up... but there it just raises the nose a little and slows down! you NEED flaps to land.. god its fast! DLE is a GREAT match for this plane! you´ll love it! take off was uneventful and just needed a little left aileron trim and that was it! everything else was exactly as is! I will be needing to add some fuel tubing to the wheels to slow them down a bit.. I managed to run off the end of the runway when landing right at the head! No biggy though... also I think it is also a case of me needing to get more used to the model and more confident with landing it slower. I did notice more instability with the ordnance installed... they must be bending in the airflow or something and acting like rudders... Definitely not for everyday use but worth having for a club day/event!!! really I just need to spend more time setting the carb of the dle, its definitely running rich.. Once I get the problems solved I am having with the format my new video cam records in i´ll be able to get a video going. But you will just love high speed low passes like a jet on this! It REALLY had a lot of fans at the club! Rates were the low level rates with 30% expo.. I did find I needed full rates for taxing as there was not enough response for the nose wheel, but again no big issue! I may end up just locking the rates in the tx with ailerons, elev at say 60% and rudder at 100% and have done with it... it wasnt like flying my 3d gasser where I continually flip between rates for various manouvers. I did NEARLY loose the plane on maiden, I´ll include it in the video... I took off, went high... trimmed, tested flaps etc etc... then decided to practice some touch and goes... well on one I decided it would be the landing... touched down hit "motor cut" ... faffed things up and retracted the UC!!!!! by PURE luck at that time the plane bounced on a stone or something and I was able to give it full gas and get back in the air!!!! Wont make that mistake again!

rk212 -> RE: Seagull Super Tucano (1/14/2012 6:01 PM)
haha thats crazy! Lady luck was looking down on you today! You mentioned about the fuel tubing on the wheels is this to create more friction to slow it down on the runway? Yes was wondering if the ordanance would make a difference. Where you happy with how the Eflites performed? No problems i hope...

ceecrb1 -> RE: Seagull Super Tucano (1/14/2012 6:13 PM)
The eflites were PERFECT! I cycled them in the air a few times during the maiden.. no problems at all! Yeah the fuel tubing is to add friction and work like a break. Most of my RC planes have had this... all except my 3d gasser.. which lands so slowly that it does not need it. A quick bashing together of the (mostly) usable video footage is ready!!! Check 1:45 !!!!

rk212 -> RE: Seagull Super Tucano (1/14/2012 6:23 PM)
1.45 haha, your friends liked that trick too! Well done on the recover

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