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RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!! - 1/7/2012 11:54 PM   
levram1


 

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From: Corbin, KY, USA
Status: offline 		Will a Thunder AC 680 work?
quote:

ORIGINAL: dgholmes59


quote:

ORIGINAL: levram1

Is it really bad to store fully charged li-po's?  If so, what is the best way to discharge them?  I have 3 that way.



You should discharge your LIPO battery to 40 to 50% even if stored for a week.  I use the Thunder T6 multicharger, but there are many microprocessor based chargers that have a LIPO "storage mode."  If the LIPO is discharged, it will charge it to the 50% and discharge them if above 50%.  The cell voltage should be between 3.8 to 3.85 unloaded for storage.  As you can see, you can also store them in a refrigerator to extend life further.  I don't do this.  Proper storage is to discharge/charge the battery to 50% and store in a cool environment.  Heat and storing at full charge depletes the capacity pretty quickly.

You could also discharge the packs by flying and then charge to 50%.

You can use the Hyperion EOS sentry for measuring the cells.  I use the Hyperion for all of my planes because it shows the % of charge left in the pack.  One of my buddies crashed last week because his receiver battery was dead. $25 meter would have saved it.

http://www.hobbycom.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=HP-EOSSENTRY&click=2 

From Batteryuniversity.com,

Battery Temperature

Permanent capacity loss when
stored at 40% state-of-charge
(recommended storage charge level)

Permanent capacity loss when
stored at 100% state-of-charge
(typical user charge level)

0°C

25°C

40°C

60°C

2% loss in 1 year; 98% remaining

4% loss in 1 year; 96% remaining

15% loss in 1 year; 85% remaining

25% loss in 1 year 75%; remaining

6% loss in 1 year; 94% remaining

20% loss in 1 year; 80% remaining

35% loss in 1 year; 65% remaining

      40% loss in 3 months





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RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!! - 1/7/2012 11:56 PM   
cloudancer03


 

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From: palm harbor, FL, USA
Status: offline 		first......take a deep breathe... set your gear aside for a few and go talk with other clubs and find a competent instructor that you feel good about.don/t make an impulsive decision as you will get it right eventually and never look back,as for the rudder ,all I will say is that its not attached for looks...some rc models require little use of the rudder but that doesnt mean its not important.if you fly a larger plane you will use the rudder to make smooth cordiated turns.try making a hammerhead withoutb a rudder..rudders are important!

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RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!! - 1/8/2012 12:24 AM   
dgholmes59


 

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From: Stephenville, TX, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: levram1

Will a Thunder AC 680 work?
quote:

ORIGINAL: dgholmes59


quote:

ORIGINAL: levram1

Is it really bad to store fully charged li-po's?  If so, what is the best way to discharge them?  I have 3 that way.



You should discharge your LIPO battery to 40 to 50% even if stored for a week.  I use the Thunder T6 multicharger, but there are many microprocessor based chargers that have a LIPO "storage mode."  If the LIPO is discharged, it will charge it to the 50% and discharge them if above 50%.  The cell voltage should be between 3.8 to 3.85 unloaded for storage.  As you can see, you can also store them in a refrigerator to extend life further.  I don't do this.  Proper storage is to discharge/charge the battery to 50% and store in a cool environment.  Heat and storing at full charge depletes the capacity pretty quickly.

You could also discharge the packs by flying and then charge to 50%.

You can use the Hyperion EOS sentry for measuring the cells.  I use the Hyperion for all of my planes because it shows the % of charge left in the pack.  One of my buddies crashed last week because his receiver battery was dead. $25 meter would have saved it.

http://www.hobbycom.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=HP-EOSSENTRY&click=2 

From Batteryuniversity.com,

Battery Temperature

Permanent capacity loss when
stored at 40% state-of-charge
(recommended storage charge level)

Permanent capacity loss when
stored at 100% state-of-charge
(typical user charge level)

0°C

25°C

40°C

60°C

2% loss in 1 year; 98% remaining

4% loss in 1 year; 96% remaining

15% loss in 1 year; 85% remaining

25% loss in 1 year 75%; remaining

6% loss in 1 year; 94% remaining

20% loss in 1 year; 80% remaining

35% loss in 1 year; 65% remaining

      40% loss in 3 months






Yes it will.  Looks to be a very nice charger. Your battery must have balance leads that plug into the charger to control the cell voltages. 

This was listed on hobbyparz website for the charger:  
Lithium battery Fast and Storage mode
The smart charger offers additional Lithium programming. Fast charge reduces the charging time of the Lithium battery and the Storage mode controls the final voltage of the battery to be suit for long time storage. 



< Message edited by dgholmes59 -- 1/8/2012 12:57 AM >

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RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!! - 1/8/2012 1:28 AM   
bkdavy



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Status: offline 		YearningtoFly:
Your frustration and experience are very good examples of why you SHOULD join a club. Many of the discussions and points being made on this forum over the past several days would be cleared up in 15 minutes or less with a good day at the club. You'd find people that will help teach you how to tune the engine (just reading about doesn't cut it), help you check over the plane, help you operate trims on maiden if you need it, extra parts in flight boxes to make quick repairs, and who knows what else.

The TT Pro 46 will run fine on the Cool Power 15. I have been flying these engines for several years, and they are absolutely my favorite engine in the 46 class. Once tuned, they're easy to start, reliable, and rugged. They're also easy to find parts for should you ever need to. I use the Omega 15 rather than the Cool Power, but that's a personal choice. Just make sure they're plenty of oil in the exhaust stream, and its not burned (should be clear).

Brad



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RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!! - 1/8/2012 1:37 AM   
dgholmes59


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bkdavy

YearningtoFly:
Your frustration and experience are very good examples of why you SHOULD join a club. Many of the discussions and points being made on this forum over the past several days would be cleared up in 15 minutes or less with a good day at the club. You'd find people that will help teach you how to tune the engine (just reading about doesn't cut it), help you check over the plane, help you operate trims on maiden if you need it, extra parts in flight boxes to make quick repairs, and who knows what else.

The TT Pro 46 will run fine on the Cool Power 15. I have been flying these engines for several years, and they are absolutely my favorite engine in the 46 class. Once tuned, they're easy to start, reliable, and rugged. They're also easy to find parts for should you ever need to. I use the Omega 15 rather than the Cool Power, but that's a personal choice. Just make sure they're plenty of oil in the exhaust stream, and its not burned (should be clear).

Brad




+1



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RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!! - 1/8/2012 1:59 AM   
2walla


 

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From: walla walla, WA, USA
Status: offline 		If you can't use the rudder the plane is flying you... Learing how to use the rudder is important if you want to really learn how to fly.. If you just want to bang around circles when there is no wind and plop your plane down anywhere it cares to settle forget about rudder.. If you want to really learn to fly the plane.. figure the rudder out...

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RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!! - 1/8/2012 2:06 AM   
stepsez



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From: Columbia City, IN, USA
Status: offline 		I taught myself how to fly, with a simulator....!!!!! built my plane (stick) winter of 1999 and practiced on the sim every day , when summer got here that year one of our guys at the field put me on the buddy cord and he took my plane up and then gave me the controls and he told me everything to do and I did it, then he told me to make a aprouch but "not" land......Well I landed cause it felt good and greased it right down the runway, he was so astonished that he yanked the cord out of the radio and said you dont need me..
All the guys at my club cant believe that I had not ever fly a plane before that... :<) If anyone ever tells you that a sim is only good for control orientation there wrong.. I trained myself to do rolling harriers and rolling circles and etc on my sim and then go to the field and perform them..

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RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!! - 1/8/2012 3:01 AM   
ES CONTROL


 

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From: Narvon, PA, USA
Status: offline 		AMEN!  Someone who thinks like me.

Set all the little common  detals aside , The sim. is a winner!!!   YES!!!! 

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RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!! - 1/8/2012 4:51 AM   
HunkaJunk


 

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From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Status: offline 		If it doesn't have a rudder, I won't even fly it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: YearningtoFly

Trained on the sim extensively.  Feel confident.

Started with parkflyers.  No issues.

Decided to get a gas trainer,  look at clubs and an instructor.

Instructor tells me...no rudder.....you wont even touch the rudder when you fly with me.  Most guys and instructors dont use the rudder out here. 

Want to buy a gas trainer and radio ?

Park is where it is at for me.



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RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!! - 1/8/2012 5:10 AM   
acdii


 

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From: Capron, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Cool, found an idiot before the ban hammer crushed the posts.

Anyhow, Yearning, you are doing OK!  What others here failed to see is the Parkzone T-28 is not a tiny plane, nor is it a trainer.  It is a low wing tri gear plane with little dihedral. If you were flying the 3 channel cub, different story altogether.  It is more difficult to fly than a high wing trainer, more prone to stalls, and not as self correcting.  If you can fly one of those, take off, land, etc. then a popper trainer will be easy.

Sounds like you just need help on how to use the motor.    I learned to fly with a sim, then a UM t-28.  I then went up to an Apprentice and flew it out of my back yard with a nice take off, a few circles around my place and a safe landing.   I also have an Eflite T-34 that is a 6 pound electric low wing PTS. I had my friend maiden it and trim it out for me, and I have flown it a few times before the weather turned. 

As far as rudder control, sounds like you already have it, and flying in any cross wind, is NEEDED, especially in the Apprentice. On take off and landing a cross wind will spin that plane 90*, I put it in a tree the last time I flew it due to a strong cross wind. Of course the fin was cracked and not very stiff, so my rudder wasn't as effective as it should be, which is why I tree'd it.  Where I fly there are obstructions on the flight line, like pieces of an A-26 and a navy jet fighter, but the biggest one is the barn. The week before it flew into the tree, I flew it into the barn while trying to learn the controls from right to left as opposed to left to right, and my left and its left were backwards.  I was practicing approaches and was going slow, but it still broke things, and while test flying it after repairs I found the rudder was not working correctly.  However Before my planes introduction to the barn, I had flown it on windy days with 15-20 MPH gusts and it's lack of weight shows, but using rudder kept it under control.  I really didnt use rudder in turns, but used it in take offs and landings from the start.   I also used it to do some crazy maneuvers in the air.  At full throw it will tumble the plane wildly, and is quite fun.

You should have NO problems flying a popper powered plane, you just need to know how to setup and adjust the engine.  If the club you join requires a solo, use your T-28,  study how others fly then ask one of them to assist in getting the popper in the air.


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RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!! - 1/8/2012 5:14 AM   
Antares100


 

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From: Agawam, MA, USA
Status: offline 		    Yearning to Fly, just go for it. I learned in the early 80's by myself after weeks of a (bad) instructor flying my plane for minutes, allowing me only seconds. No offense you all you instructors out there, just got a bad one. No criticism except for "No, not like that", followed by 2-3 minutes of him flying in circles w/my plane. So I took my Eagle 63 out to a deserted school field, took off and gently climbed until I was (what I estimated) was 2 mistakes high. Gentle turn w/no rudder, and kept flying in circles. Lowered the throttle and let the plane land itself (kept the nose level, then cut it about a foot off the ground. Did that a few times, then added rudder. Baby steps. Yes, I was lucky.
    Definately see if you can find someone you can develop a student / instructor relationship, that is definately the way to go. If not, be safe, find a deserted field, and take it slow.
    Good luck! Let us know how you make out!

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RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!! - 1/8/2012 9:32 AM   
koastrc


 

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From: BILOXIMississippi, USA
Status: offline 		Reading all this stuff has been fun. Well almost all of it. There is always that little something that is not very necessary.
One of our clubs had a super instructor. Really a great dude and he could teach this sport to almost anyone. Then one year at our CHRISTMAS/election meeting he announced he was done. No More instruction. Was he mad? Was he burned out? No one knows for sure. It did cause a problem that was not considered. Each person that tries to instruct is compared to this super instructor. The old instructor was out this week. Yes he can fly and I mean fly anything with skill. It looks like he made up his mind to enjoy the hobby for himself.
Still it is hard on the new guys that are out there teaching when this man is on the line. The most important part is the other instructors don't bother the old dude. They just watch him as he goes about his own business. A good instructor is a true treasure to a club.
This forum is a true treasure to the sport. Everything from how much oil to club rules. Yes, there is a lot of instructing on this and other forums. When each of you take your time to share your knowledge it is like that old instructor. A true treasure!

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RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!! - 1/8/2012 12:27 PM   
YearningtoFly


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tampaflyer


quote:

ORIGINAL: YearningtoFly

kid at hobby store sold me 15% synthetic cool power............no castor

found manual for motor it says do not run in with synthetic you need castor

argh where are my golf clubs

 this is why a club is usefull.  you would be suprized at the "experts" at a hobby to*#n. and a club allows you to see what is being used and actually works.

and cool power is fine. .. and really on that motor on that plane.. break ins are great.. but ususally not needed. the motor will still far out last the plane..


the club can give just as much contradictory information

so far:

the rudder thing.....when my knowledge of full scale flight contradicts this

and no castor needed....when the owners manual and my knowledge of breaking in race motors is no sytnthetics during breakin as it is too efficient and doesnt let the metal parts wear in....


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RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!! - 1/8/2012 1:38 PM   
bkdavy



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Status: offline 		Had an interesting discussion yesterday at the field that was relevant to the topic at hand - bottom line was that whenever there are two or more approaches that work, someone will always say the other approach is better.

The TT-Pro 46 isn't a racing motor. It doesn't need to wear to be broken in. Its an ABN engine (no rings), so as it heats up, the cylinder expands. More friction means more heat, means more expansion. Experience shows that these engines are best broken in while flying. Start it, tune it, launch it. It will last years. Run it on cool power, omega, or just about anything else.

For what its worth, I've had one on a pontoon plane. The engine has been completely submerged on many occasions. It still starts with one flip and runs reliably.

And if you're worried about the fuel, get a gallon of Omega 15 and run that. When its gone, use the cool power. These will hardly be the last gallons of fuel that you ever buy. When I was flying glow, I was using about a gallon a month.

Nothing beats stick time for gaining experience, and in a few months you'll be forming your own opinions and not worrying about what everyone else recommends.

Brad

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RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!! - 1/8/2012 2:36 PM   
Valkguy2001


 

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Status: offline 		I think I know who you, you refused to use a buddybox. You had no control of the model, I saw you try to qualify 3 times in order to qualify for a solo certoficate, each time you did not qualify, amd Isaw you crash twice. For the record, it is not an instructor issue, but that of the pilot.

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RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!! - 1/8/2012 3:18 PM   
Insanemoondoggie


 

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Status: offline 		 Just what I,ve been thinking, he so negative about every piece of advise he has been given.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Valkguy2001

I think I know who you, you refused to use a buddybox. You had no control of the model, I saw you try to qualify 3 times in order to qualify for a solo certoficate, each time you did not qualify, amd Isaw you crash twice. For the record, it is not an instructor issue, but that of the pilot.




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RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!! - 1/8/2012 3:22 PM   
DougB1



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Status: offline 		WOW what a negative person you are YearningtoFly. A lot of good people on here has given you a lot of good advise and you still don't understand do you. Maybe you should take up needle point.

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RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!! - 1/8/2012 3:22 PM   
bigdanusa


 

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Status: offline 		Get yourself a job at disney world and operate the "dumbo" ride.

That thing uses a lot of left rudder.

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RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!! - 1/8/2012 3:27 PM   
mike31


 

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Status: offline 		The rudder is big medicine. Use as needed or required. Never just let it be an unused part of the plane. Anyone that tries to teach without using the rudder is incompetent! I spent considerable time in a Cessna 152 doing fast taxi on a 5000' runway with the nose wheel up and still on the mains. You learn real quick what the rudder can do.

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RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!! - 1/8/2012 3:41 PM   
DanMN


 

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Status: offline 		Yearning, just looked at your posts, and the last one in the 3D debacle thread. If you don't like clubs, don't join one. Be a park flyer. That is fine. You will hear different advice from all people. Most people that I know from clubs are great people. They volunteer their time to help people. Including myself.

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RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!! - 1/8/2012 6:29 PM   
YearningtoFly


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Valkguy2001

I think I know who you, you refused to use a buddybox. You had no control of the model, I saw you try to qualify 3 times in order to qualify for a solo certoficate, each time you did not qualify, amd Isaw you crash twice. For the record, it is not an instructor issue, but that of the pilot.



not me never flown at a club

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RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!! - 1/8/2012 6:33 PM   
YearningtoFly


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DanMN

Yearning, just looked at your posts, and the last one in the 3D debacle thread. If you don't like clubs, don't join one. Be a park flyer. That is fine. You will hear different advice from all people. Most people that I know from clubs are great people. They volunteer their time to help people. Including myself.



 where i want to get ......the only suitable flying space, all three here on public domain by the way, and you cant fly without being in the club

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RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!! - 1/8/2012 6:38 PM   
YearningtoFly


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DougB1

WOW what a negative person you are YearningtoFly. A lot of good people on here has given you a lot of good advise and you still don't understand do you. Maybe you should take up needle point.



join a club is the advice

is there other advice ?

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RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!! - 1/8/2012 6:43 PM   
THERCAV8R


 

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Status: offline 		I have been flying for 40 years and over that time I have taught many to fly. I have never mentioned money. I was taught to fly and I pass on the favor. That is just the way it is!

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RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!! - 1/8/2012 6:59 PM   
llindsey1965


 

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From: AugustaGA, USA
Status: offline 		sorry  you have a instructor who doesnt know how important the rudder is learn to use the rudder as you grow in experience you will appreciate how important the rudder is and now to the gas or glow  you must decide for yourself but as for me i chose gasoline 50cc and up   hope you have all the wonderful experiences this hobby offers  godspeed

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