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Semi-Symmetrical, Hi-wing, ARF/RTF Options? - 1/10/2012 9:59 AM   
Deandome



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Status: offline 		First off...I'm bummed. The plane I really wanted, that I'd find a way to bend my budget for...the Goldberg Falcon 56 mkII ARF...has been discontinued (my LHS called great planes today while I was there). If anyone knows of one at their LHS, let me know...all the etailers seem to be outta stock. I didn't ask about the Falcon Sr...my guess is it's history, too (ARF version at least).

Of course, I also really liked Hanger 9's Arrow, but it's also DOA...though I'm guessing it's getting re-kitted with a 2.4 radio. Who knows...and who knows when (but why's the ARF version gone?). Yeah, there's the Avistar, but it's kinda 'meh'...and found this nice, VMAR Hornet@ Richmond RC outta canada for a lot less $$, partcularly so if you order it w/their .46 BB motor. Both are well reviewed here @ RCU http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=330 , and both could be at my doorstep for a total of $175.

Are the nitroplanes.com trainers any good? Their website suks...it doesn't mention if they're flat-bottomed or semi-symmetrical wings (and it's kinda hard to tell from the pics. Besides...they all say "out of stock", though I don't mind waiting, as I won't be flying it until spring. Speaking of "out of stock", I like the SIG Rascal 40, but it's kind of $$,it's a tail dragger and one review said it wasn't that good for beginners cuz of a tendency to tip-stall (what do you think?).

What about Stik planes...can you train on them? This Great Planes Easy Sport 40 seems really interesting; it's a shoulder mount wing, but a big wing, so it looks pretty stable. Could I learn on something like that? The P51 PTS has always had my interest, but I'm a little off-put by the price; both of the RTF kit, and of the price of replacement wings....$96 per HALF!!!! I could get a new VMAR hornet for less than that!

But what else is out there...what am I missing? FWIW, I want this kind of plane cuz I'd rather learn on a plane I won't get bored with as soon as I'm capable. I'll have indoor micro-champ flying under my belt (just got it, will be hitting the dome Sat), and I'll be training at a club w/good trainers...I'm willing to take the risk & avoid buying a flat-wing trainer. I'm planning on a Turnigy/Hobbyking radio to finish off my package.

Thanks for your help & advice!


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RE: Semi-Symmetrical, Hi-wing, ARF/RTF Options? - 1/10/2012 11:33 AM   
G.Barber



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Status: offline 		You could give this trainer a try: The Wings Maker Wingman 1

If you'd like to read the scoop, Minnflyer reviewed it about 3 years ago: Wingman 1 review by Minnflyer

Yes, this plane does have a semi-symmetrical wing, and the ARF is $119.95.

Minnflyer gave this plane to my son after the review. It's been sitting in the garage for 3 years now (my boy is now 11 - probably going to start him on nitro this summer) and the covering is holding up well.

Check it out! This might be the one you're looking for!

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RE: Semi-Symmetrical, Hi-wing, ARF/RTF Options? - 1/10/2012 1:25 PM   
MinnFlyer



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Status: offline 		The Easy Sport is another great option, it's basically a knock-off of the Falcon

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RE: Semi-Symmetrical, Hi-wing, ARF/RTF Options? - 1/10/2012 2:14 PM   
RCVFR


 

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Status: offline 		This plane (also the World Models Sky Raider Mach I version) is a terriffic flyer. I bought one about 5 years ago for instruction purposes, powered with an OS 40LA, and I ended up putting far more sport flying time on it than "instructional" time. On mine, assembly instructions were sparce, but if you have put together a few ARFS, it goes together well. A good recommendation.


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RE: Semi-Symmetrical, Hi-wing, ARF/RTF Options? - 1/10/2012 2:48 PM   
grosbeak



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Status: offline 		I learned to fly in 2011 with a Hobbico Hobbistar 60 RTF.



It's big, powerful and forgiving - and it has a semi-symmetrical wing. I still love to fly it.


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RE: Semi-Symmetrical, Hi-wing, ARF/RTF Options? - 1/10/2012 3:24 PM   
DenverJayhawk



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Status: offline 		Stik should definitely be on your consideration list. I wished i had trained on it instead of the nextstar.

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RE: Semi-Symmetrical, Hi-wing, ARF/RTF Options? - 1/10/2012 4:17 PM   
Lnewqban



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Status: offline 		Check if still available:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=1268

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RE: Semi-Symmetrical, Hi-wing, ARF/RTF Options? - 1/10/2012 10:23 PM   
Deandome



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Status: offline 		Which plane are you talking about, RCVFR? Your post seems to be missing a link.

Thanks for all the suggestions! I'd LOVE the ORA Transformer, as it's a nitro version of the Hobbico Switch that I was eying. But it looks like it's no longer available (I send rcwarez an email), and I think it'd be well over $200 if it was. The Wingman looks nice, particularly the apparent quality of the covering. But at that price, I'd probby opt for the Easy Sport, as it's apparently a clone of the Goldberg Falcon I like. I'll be researching Stiks models, too.

I'd love to hear if anyone's had experience with any of the nitroplane.com high-wing traners

Otherwise, I think I'm at the point where the Easy Sport or a Stik are my options at the higher price-point ($140-150), but I'm still strongly considering lower-price options, like the VMAR Hornet (where they discount a nice motor if you buy both), or maybe the nitroplanes.com, world models or something else I can get to my door for about $100.

Thanks again!


quote:

ORIGINAL: RCVFR

This plane (also the World Models Sky Raider Mach I version) is a terriffic flyer. I bought one about 5 years ago for instruction purposes, powered with an OS 40LA, and I ended up putting far more sport flying time on it than ''instructional'' time. On mine, assembly instructions were sparce, but if you have put together a few ARFS, it goes together well. A good recommendation.


ni

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RE: Semi-Symmetrical, Hi-wing, ARF/RTF Options? - 1/10/2012 10:58 PM   
Gray Beard


 

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Status: offline 		I have taught using a nitroplane trainer that belonged to the student. What the airfoil was I can't recall. Before you think of buying anything from Nitroplanes you should do a search here about the company and there products so your better informed.
Also take a look at the sticky here with all the trainers and info that has been posted.
As to the Sticks, if you have an instructor and a buddy box your good to go. I have never used one to teach with but I wish I would have. After the solo you have a plane you aren't in such a hurry to move away from. A stick is as close to a perfect plane as you will find. Anyone that doesn't like them has never flown one. They don't do everything with precision but they will do everything!!

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RE: Semi-Symmetrical, Hi-wing, ARF/RTF Options? - 1/11/2012 12:31 AM   
ratshooter


 

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Status: offline 		I learned to fly on a Midwest Little Stik. I pretty much learned on my own. The instructer I had was 35 miles away so I went out by myself during the week and got instructions on the weekend. Mostly I watched the instructer fly my plane. I learned more, faster flying by myself. So  am all for a Stik for a trainer. And I do think the Easy Sport 40 would also be an excellent choice. I almost bought one of those instead of the Big Stik 40 I am working on now. Plus they are about $20 cheaper.

Also have a look at BlueJay Models and the Aircruiser 60. Its just a Stik type model designed by Joe Bridi and it weighs 5.25 pounds so a good 40-46 should be plenty of motor for a sport flyer. I have built the Aircruiser 25 and a couple of loadstars. These planes go together fast and have high quality wood and hardware.

http://www.bridiairplanes.com/hangar/aircruiser60.html

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< Message edited by ratshooter -- 1/25/2012 3:30 AM >

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RE: Semi-Symmetrical, Hi-wing, ARF/RTF Options? - 1/11/2012 1:13 AM   
1320Fastback



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Status: offline 		My vote goes to the Avistar by Hobbico.

Stock it is a wonderful flying plane with NO bad tendencies.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0001P?I=LXPY56&P=8


Eventually you will want to upgrade and then the fun begins.

Cut the wing in half and add barn door ailerons, flaps and take all the dihedral out of the wing and clip the tips off too.
Put a .46 on it and convert it to a tail dragger.


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RE: Semi-Symmetrical, Hi-wing, ARF/RTF Options? - 1/11/2012 5:38 AM   
scooterinvegas



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quote:

ORIGINAL: grosbeak

I learned to fly in 2011 with a Hobbico Hobbistar 60 RTF.



It's big, powerful and forgiving - and it has a semi-symmetrical wing. I still love to fly it.


The HobbiStar 60 is a FANTASTIC plane!! Put a MA 12x6 and go have fun.

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RE: Semi-Symmetrical, Hi-wing, ARF/RTF Options? - 1/11/2012 8:08 PM   
Gray Beard


 

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Status: offline 		Scott, look at all that green crap in the photo!! What the heck is it????

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RE: Semi-Symmetrical, Hi-wing, ARF/RTF Options? - 1/11/2012 8:18 PM   
grosbeak



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gray Beard

Scott, look at all that green crap in the photo!! What the heck is it????


Beats me - it was this stuff lying on the ground during the summer. Now there's some sort of white stuff where the green stuff used to be.


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RE: Semi-Symmetrical, Hi-wing, ARF/RTF Options? - 1/11/2012 11:27 PM   
corch


 

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Status: offline 		I'll second both the Easy Sport and Avistar.  The Easy Sport is our club recommended trainer, built stock with a .46 or .55 motor.  Here's our club training night, with 6 easy sports in the pits!



One member had his 6th variant there, wicked throws, no dihydral




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RE: Semi-Symmetrical, Hi-wing, ARF/RTF Options? - 1/12/2012 1:00 AM   
cutaway


 

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Status: offline 		The Avistar isn't really a primary trainer in the sense of say a Kadet Senior. Its sold as a "trainer", but with a strong .46, a bit more throws, and the CG moved aft a tad, can be quite aerobatic and snappy. Its perfectly capable of flying all the IMAC Basic class manuvers (and is IMAC legal for Basic since Basic doesn't require a scale airplane)

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RE: Semi-Symmetrical, Hi-wing, ARF/RTF Options? - 1/12/2012 2:06 AM   
jmb52760


 

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Status: offline 		+1 on the Hobbistar 60. I recommended this to a friend that wanted to learn to fly. This is a quality plane that you can continue to fly and have fun with after learning the basics.

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RE: Semi-Symmetrical, Hi-wing, ARF/RTF Options? - 1/12/2012 2:12 AM   
Clay Walters


 

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Status: offline 		I vote Hobbistar 60 too and recommend a .91 four-stroke for power.


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RE: Semi-Symmetrical, Hi-wing, ARF/RTF Options? - 1/12/2012 2:48 PM   
TexasAirBoss



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Status: offline 		I trained a ton of people back in the 80's and my favorite trainer was the Avistar. There is a good reason that airplane has been around for so many years. It's capabilities are incredible. You can use it for primary and advanced training and even beyond. Don't be fooled by its appearance. That is a very capable machine.

If you are focusing on advanced training, then i recommend the Stiks. They are great for learning to land airplanes with symmetrical airfoils and medium wing loadings. Also, the Super Sportster makes a great advanced trainer. It is capable of very high speeds, and still lands very slowly. IT is an excellent airplane. It might be slighty too advanced for some people. I tend to call it a great third airplane.



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RE: Semi-Symmetrical, Hi-wing, ARF/RTF Options? - 1/12/2012 4:52 PM   
RCVFR


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deandome

Which plane are you talking about, RCVFR? Your post seems to be missing a link.

Thanks for all the suggestions! I'd LOVE the ORA Transformer, as it's a nitro version of the Hobbico Switch that I was eying. But it looks like it's no longer available (I send rcwarez an email), and I think it'd be well over $200 if it was. The Wingman looks nice, particularly the apparent quality of the covering. But at that price, I'd probby opt for the Easy Sport, as it's apparently a clone of the Goldberg Falcon I like. I'll be researching Stiks models, too.

I'd love to hear if anyone's had experience with any of the nitroplane.com high-wing traners

Otherwise, I think I'm at the point where the Easy Sport or a Stik are my options at the higher price-point ($140-150), but I'm still strongly considering lower-price options, like the VMAR Hornet (where they discount a nice motor if you buy both), or maybe the nitroplanes.com, world models or something else I can get to my door for about $100.

Thanks again!


quote:

ORIGINAL: RCVFR

This plane (also the World Models Sky Raider Mach I version) is a terriffic flyer. I bought one about 5 years ago for instruction purposes, powered with an OS 40LA, and I ended up putting far more sport flying time on it than ''instructional'' time. On mine, assembly instructions were sparce, but if you have put together a few ARFS, it goes together well. A good recommendation.


ni


I was replying to post #2. The plane from Wing Maker is the same plane I was referenceing but different color trim, same mfg. Sorry it was unclear.



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RE: Semi-Symmetrical, Hi-wing, ARF/RTF Options? - 1/12/2012 10:52 PM   
Deandome



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Status: offline 		Thanks again for all your great input!

I kind of have to stick to the .40 size-group, as cost is a big factor. I know the kit itself isn't that much more, but a .75-91 engine sure is, and you need stronger servos, more fuel, bigger props that'll need replacing, etc.

I'm really drawn to the Easy Sport, but I just recently realized the wing is fully symmetrical...as is the GP Big Stick 40's (not sure about the Ultra Stick). VMAR also makes a nice stick, and it looks to be semi-symmetrical...and I could even afford to go with a .60 size, as the .60 stick is only $20, and the same diff applies to their .46 and .61 VMAX .60 motors. Check them, out...they seem to be the best 'local' (North American warehouse) source for Chinese ARFs (compared to www.nitroplanes.com, World Models, HobbyKing). Great prices, stuff is IN STOCK, and shipping is reasonable (about $25 for a kit & motor): http://www.richmondrc.com/richmondrc/web_sections/consumers/ur/ur_home_search_VMA.htm

So I have a LITTLE more concern about these options being used as trainers. I'm thinking the dihedral of the Easy Sport will make it a lot more stable than, say, the Big Stick. But I wonder how a semi-symmetrical stick...with little/no dihedral...would compare to the Easy Sport?

But all the reviews say the EZ Sport is very docile...corch sez it's his club's 'preferred trainer'...so I think that might win out. But those VMAR sticks.....





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RE: Semi-Symmetrical, Hi-wing, ARF/RTF Options? - 1/12/2012 10:57 PM   
ec121


 

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Status: offline 		The Explorer 40 from texas rc planes is a good almost straight wing semi-symmetrical trainer. I have one with a GMS 75 on it. Took that much weight to blance it, but it will really cover some ground. Slows down well for training. Was $69.95. Downside is that it has the old style wooden beams for a motor mount. Had to do some carving to fit the motor.

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RE: Semi-Symmetrical, Hi-wing, ARF/RTF Options? - 1/12/2012 11:17 PM   
Deandome



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Status: offline 		Thanks...hadn't seen them yet.

But the Explorer is now $120...and it's "sold out". They have nice sticks, but they're fully-symmetrical.


quote:

ORIGINAL: ec121

The Explorer 40 from texas rc planes is a good almost straight wing semi-symmetrical trainer. I have one with a GMS 75 on it. Took that much weight to blance it, but it will really cover some ground. Slows down well for training. Was $69.95. Downside is that it has the old style wooden beams for a motor mount. Had to do some carving to fit the motor.



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RE: Semi-Symmetrical, Hi-wing, ARF/RTF Options? - 1/13/2012 1:25 AM   
Lnewqban



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Status: offline 		Deandome,

Are you willing to build a Falcon 56 from a plan?

If so, I could send a copy to you.

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RE: Semi-Symmetrical, Hi-wing, ARF/RTF Options? - 1/13/2012 4:28 AM   
Deandome



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Status: offline 		No..but thanks much for the offer.

And for a first plane, I've read that it's much better to go ARF/RTF because the deep emotional 'attachment' you get when you build your own plane will crush you like a grape when you inevitably crash.
And it can/does cost a lot more for the plane, cuz you need to 'gear up' for a build like that. Only you plan on doing several big builds does it make economic sense.

Besides, I think helping 14 y.o. Chinese girls feed their families is a noble endeavor.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lnewqban

Deandome,

Are you willing to build a Falcon 56 from a plan?

If so, I could send a copy to you.



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