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Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to? - 1/12/2012 7:30 PM   
tassos p



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From: DUBAI, UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Status: offline 		Lately I have been stretching my flying abilities to the next level.

I think one of the simplest but most magic (but very difficult) maneuvers that exist is THE LONG SLOW (REALLY SLOW) ROLL

The simple roll is the easiest maneuver that exists........... but a long sloooooow roll with a high speed aircraft at 6 feet off the ground.... well that's another question

I have been admiring many pilots that have been performing totaly straight rolls without the nose pointing all about the place while doing it....but how? I have nailled the secrets of this maneuver into three points:

#1 - CG a little bit behind the recommended by the manufacturer CG

#2 - rudder input - this is very important in the slow roll when reaching the 2 knife edge positions + of course a little bit of down input while inverted

#3 - speed, the higher the speed the better the roll

But my question is at what extent and which of the above plays the highest role in order to perform a perfect slow roll?

And am I missing something that is more important? Do you think with Mode 1 Tx (rudder + stabilizer on right stick) this maneuvre is performed easiest than with Mode 2 (aileron + stabilizer on right stick)?

By the way, I fly a CARF UL while attempting this maneuver.

Although experience is very difficult to be put in writting and pilot feeling of controls is totaly subjective from person to person I would really appreciate your comments and feedback regarding this totally magic maneuver.

How do you do it?

Tassos



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RE: Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to? - 1/12/2012 7:58 PM   
gunradd



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Status: online 		Getting your roll coupling dialed out on the rudder helps a lot.

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RE: Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to? - 1/12/2012 8:16 PM   
quist



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Status: offline 		I don't agree with the aft cg, this will cause the jet to be more pitch sensitive. You do not want this condition for a low roll. You just need to learn how to use your rudder and elevator to keep the nose straight at every wing position. You might want to start with long point rolls.

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RE: Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to? - 1/12/2012 8:20 PM   
Nhalyn



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Status: offline 		Well, you are on the right way, but I see the thing a little different. Slooooow rool is just magic !

#1 : CG : forget the manufacturer setting : the right setting is the one that work in flight, not the one on the paper !
You should set the CG and the trow in order that you plane will be really neutral, thus ensuring minimum correction on command for inverted flight (just a little down elevator) The more neutral is your plane, the less correction you have to do, the simplest it is.

#2 : rudder and elevator input :
The secret is that you you permanetly correct the trajectory as slow as the roll. Rudder is not only when your are knifed, elevator is nut only when you are inverted. You have to learn that once the plane is no more leveled you have to start to put rudder until you rich knife edge. Then as plane goes to inverted you need less and less rudder but here comes down elevator until you are inverted. Then as plane goes to the next knife position, you need less and less elevator but rudder the opposite way. You see what I mean ?
I'm flying Mode 3, it's like mode 1 but elevator & rudder are on my left stick. During a sloooooowww rool my left stick perform a sort of nearly circle around the neutral, with as minimum trow as it is possible to keep the rool beautiful and movement of the plane minimum. That's why it's important the plane to be neutral and the speed high, because...

#3 : the higher the speed, the less your plane need incidence to flight straight in knife edge and inverted, the less order input you have to do !

That's how I do it with my F3A style planes and now with my big Futura. I'm not yet plenty ok with my slow rool with Futura, my settings are not yet totaly finished, it's not enough neutral for my style by now.

And last tip : fly, fly, and fly...

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RE: Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to? - 1/12/2012 8:25 PM   
HORNET FLYER


 

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Status: offline 		lol....depends on plane

kingcat.......looooooong slows rolls
eurosport......forget bout it lol

pattern plane taught me how to do slow rolls

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RE: Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to? - 1/12/2012 8:32 PM   
weasel33



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Status: offline 		Hi Tassos
This is how i used to do it in competition aerobatics

Cg plane so it flies straight and level
get someone to hold the nose and someone on the tail and balance out the heaviest wing
everything neutral wings level.

Do all rolling maneuvers DOWNWIND and all climbing INTO WIND then speed is the next most important thing
and finally practice and more practice.
If its going fast enough you can almost forget the rudder and just breath on the ailerons all the way through the roll

hope this helps a bit

brian



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RE: Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to? - 1/12/2012 9:12 PM   
tassos p



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Status: offline 		Thank you all,

This is what I'm talking about..... RCU rocks.....

Brian, yes balance and speed should help alot, I'll try more of it

Hornet flyer, yes your point is logic, deltas may not do the trick

Nhalyn, lol very well put, fly fly more flyyyy would help. It is #2 that I can't really achieve and I think Mode 2 makes it even more difficult. Finding that neutral point #1 is also difficult

Quist, agreed, only when inverted and CG is correct then there is alot of down input. Maybe there is no such thing as a correct CG as Nhalyn is saying

gunradd, thanks alot

keep it coming please...

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RE: Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to? - 1/12/2012 9:15 PM   
Skymac



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RE: Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to? - 1/12/2012 9:34 PM   
DavidR



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Status: offline 		Practice higher than 6 feet unless you have a steady supply of airframes..... Rolls and loops are the foundation for all aerobatics.

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RE: Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to? - 1/12/2012 9:41 PM   
JackD



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Status: online 		Another trick that to me is important is to learn how to give elevator input throught the roll without altering the roll rate. To me that is the hardest thing.... (at least for us mode 2 fliers...)

if you are learning, i think becoming really good at 4 point rolls is the best first step



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RE: Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to? - 1/12/2012 9:42 PM   
JackD



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RE: Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to? - 1/12/2012 9:48 PM   
Nhalyn



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quote:

ORIGINAL: JackD
if you are learning, i think becoming really good at 4 point rolls is the best first step

That's a very good training program : doing 4 points rool but with slow rool rate. They more beautiful (to me !) and train you to put correct corrections, but with pause to breath again !

At a moment if you not do the 4 point, you are in a slooooow rool....

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RE: Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to? - 1/12/2012 9:49 PM   
DelGatoGrande



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Status: offline 		axial slow rolls
mix out the aileron differentials for axial rolls,also knife mix out, and trim it in a certain speed,
then practice to master the rudder and elevator inputs and thats it!


next level rolling circles =nonstop rolling and doing circles or loops by using the correct rudder and elevator at the right time

and if you want harder

next level rolling harrier circles (prop 3d only)=like rolling circles but add proper throttle management

....you have see me do that with my 46%ultimate







.

< Message edited by DelGatoGrande -- 1/13/2012 1:28 AM >

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RE: Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to? - 1/12/2012 9:53 PM   
Jame


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Tassos

Its only my opinion, but I would say that Mode 1 is the easiest configuration to perform Slow Rolls with, it allows me to merge the inputs of Rudder and Elevator more easily, not sure what Transmitter you use, I fly Futaba and find that with -30% - 35% Expo, I can start the Rudder input while the model is between straight and level flight and the Knife Edge position, this helps with the small amount of altitude it would normally lose when rolling onto a axis with very little lift (side of the Fuselage, Fin and Rudder only) - a slight slight pull on the elevator will also cure this. Dont get me wrong, Im not in the same league as most of the pilots I watch and fly with, Im sure youl get alot of opinions, but Ive always found that if your Rudder and Elevator deflections are balanced (in regard to Stick Movement, rather than measured amounts), then its slightly easier as you dont have to worry about pushing maybe 40% elevator stick input and 60% rudder input, this enables a small circle around the centre point which should give a balanced an axial input in the Roll.

Ohhhh and Sticks together or Stick Apart.....Never the same way........Ask me how I know

Hope this helps. Great choice of Airframe too.....Flash is all I can have at the moment, but a UL, maybe one day

regards

Jame

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RE: Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to? - 1/12/2012 10:04 PM   
KC36330



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quote:

ORIGINAL: weasel33

.......Do all rolling maneuvers DOWNWIND




I'm sure this has been beaten to death many times, but it's worthy of at least one more honorable mention............the plane doesn't know if it's flying into the wind or downwind in flight, the only thing changing is the ground speed........

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RE: Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to? - 1/12/2012 10:27 PM  1 votes
basimpsn


 

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Status: offline 		And then Practice all maneuvers on a Flight Simulator. Realflight helps me a lot .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rMkxmvWxKY

< Message edited by basimpsn -- 1/16/2012 5:57 PM >


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RE: Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to? - 1/12/2012 10:29 PM   
mr_matt



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quote:

ORIGINAL: tassos p

Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to?



technology.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_-IMFKdMRc

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RE: Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to? - 1/12/2012 11:24 PM   
Doug Cronkhite


 

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RE: Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to? - 1/12/2012 11:29 PM   
MetallicaJunkie



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quote:

ORIGINAL: basimpsn

And then Practice all maneuvers on a Flight Simulator. Realflight helps me a lot .

+5

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RE: Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to? - 1/12/2012 11:46 PM   
zacharyR


 

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Status: online 		a jet guy learning some basic flying skills ...




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RE: Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to? - 1/12/2012 11:51 PM   
JackD



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Doug Cronkhite

A lot of it comes down to setup. If your setup is bad, you'll spend more time fighting the airplane than flying it.


Yeap, that is a crucial one. All rudder to aileron and rudder to elevator mixes must be perfect. Knife edge should be just rudder, no opposite aileron or any elevator.
And that takes time. No less than 10 to 15 flights to get it perfect.



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RE: Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to? - 1/13/2012 12:47 AM   
Airplanes400



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Status: offline 		Having a rudder (heading) gyro works the best. Next time you see someone doing a slow roll, find out if a gyro is installed in their jet/plane. More often than not, they are accomplishing the slow roll with the help of the gyro.

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RE: Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to? - 1/13/2012 1:11 AM   
CrashingXpert



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quote:

ORIGINAL: zacharyR

a jet guy learning some basic flying skills ...





since when , owning a jet means you know how to fly LOL



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RE: Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to? - 1/13/2012 1:52 AM   
FalconWings



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Status: offline 		Hmmm. Ive seen GOOD pilots slow roll on the crappiest set up airframes.
Learn on a prop plane, rolling to the left. Master that, then try it to the right. No mix, no gyro, no radio aid.
Do it at a comfortable speed at altitude, then try at a slower speed. Once you figure it out, then start doing it lower and lower.

Ideally, if you have a nice 3D airframe, Id recommend learning the Harrier followed by the Harrier roll. It requires mastering the aileron/rudder/elevator coordination. Then transition that coordination to the jet.

A jet is the crappiest possible model to practice.

As David R stated, better have several airframes if you want to learn on a jet, specially the 6ft part.

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RE: Loooooong slooooowwwwwww rolls.....how to? - 1/13/2012 1:55 AM   
FalconWings



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quote:

ORIGINAL: KC36330


quote:

ORIGINAL: weasel33

.......Do all rolling maneuvers DOWNWIND




I'm sure this has been beaten to death many times, but it's worthy of at least one more honorable mention............the plane doesn't know if it's flying into the wind or downwind in flight, the only thing changing is the ground speed........


LOL, some folks just dont get it.

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