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RE: Hangar 9 30cc P-47 Build Thread - 2/12/2012 5:51 PM   
WSRetracts


 

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ORIGINAL: nioa


quote:

ORIGINAL: show871

Just stumbled across these retracts for this plane they look awesome and are reasonably priced!

http://www.wingspanretracts.com/H9P47


Maybe I'm overly suspicious, but the "pictures" of the retracts shown on that website look like computer generated graphics. I don't find that very reassuring especially for a "pre-order". Who knows what you will actually receive. Wingspan lists a USA address on the website, which is good, and they have some other interesting things too. Hopefully, they will be OK, and the retracts are well-made, but I learned along time ago that cutting costs on an important item like retracts is not worth it.

Nick



fficedocumentsettings> fficedocumentsettings> verridetablestylehps> verridetablestylehps>


Hi Nick,

My name is Michael and I am WingSpan Retracts.  I have been following this thread like everyone else since it started with great interest, not because I am going to be selling retracts for the plane but because I am love this hobby and think this is going to be a fantastic plane.  That is the real reason I am developing retracts for it.  I am excitedly waiting for Horizon to fill my order that I placed way back in November as I am sure many on this thread are too.   I have not posted on this thread because as it has been noted I did not want to it to be a sales pitch for my products, however, I wanted to respond to your post. 

The lack of real photos has nothing to do with our quality. WingSpan Retracts is a small company and we don't have an in-house photo studio or expensive camera equipment.  As a matter of fact a point-n-shoot and an iPhone is all we have in our photography arsenal.  As I'm sure you know professional photography is very expensive so I use CAD generated pictures for all my products.  This allows me to put our resources to better use by producing higher quality products, and because we have much lower overhead we can provide our customers much better pricing.    This is where we provide more value and I think our features speak for themselves.  I stand behind every one of our products but more importantly provide the best customer support.  If you or anyone else has any questions please feel free to contact me at sales@wingspanretracts.com so that this thread can be about this fantastic plane. 

To John Redman: Thanks for going into detail on the scale enhancements you are adding to the kit.  I am looking forward to more of your posts and can't wait to apply what you are doing here to my own plane when it finally arrives.  Keep up the great work.


Michael



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RE: Hangar 9 30cc P-47 Build Thread - 2/13/2012 3:45 AM   
nioa



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quote:

Hi Nick,
.....
The lack of real photos has nothing to do with our quality. WingSpan Retracts is a small company and we don't have an in-house photo studio or expensive camera equipment.  As a matter of fact a point-n-shoot and an iPhone is all we have in our photography arsenal.  As I'm sure you know professional photography is very expensive so I use CAD generated pictures for all my products.  This allows me to put our resources to better use by producing higher quality products, and because we have much lower overhead we can provide our customers much better pricing.    ...


Michael



Hello Michael, I think it's great that you are developing electric retracts. My best wishes to you and your sucess. However, even an inexpensive point-and-shoot camera operated by someone with minimal experience can produce good close-up shots. Those pictures would show details and have more value than a virtual image. I think that actual images are expected, and even necessary to sell an item.

Nick


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RE: Hangar 9 30cc P-47 Build Thread - 2/13/2012 3:53 AM   
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Status: offline 		hey if anyone buys the kit and doesn't want the wing pylons, fuse mount and or the tanks and bombs, drop me a line.

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RE: Hangar 9 30cc P-47 Build Thread - 2/13/2012 8:40 PM   
WSRetracts


 

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HI Nick,

Your comments are absolutely valid, and if that is what some customers need before they purchase well I guess I will miss out on some sales.  But if having real pictures is the benchmark of whether a product will sell or not then I'm probably not the only company missing out on sales then. Even some of the biggest of companies don't have images of many products not even a computer generated images.  Robart and Horizon for example have numerous products on their web sites without any pictures and the whole 500 series of Robart retracts are computer generated images. Of course I could list numerous companies that don't have real product images or use computer rendered pictures, these two are just the most relevant to this discussion.   So I think I'm at least on par by posting what the product will look like even if it is a computer generated one.

Michael



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RE: Hangar 9 30cc P-47 Build Thread - 2/14/2012 8:44 PM   
John Redman


 

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Status: offline 		Hey Guys,

The first of the build videos is live on Horizon Hobby's web site. You can check it out here. More to come.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/article/2349-john-redman-builds-the-hangar-9-p-47d-thunderbolt-30cc

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RE: Hangar 9 30cc P-47 Build Thread - 2/14/2012 11:43 PM   
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Status: offline 		Cool Stuff John, I'm getting excited!

any work on ship dates? got to be getting pretty close now?

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RE: Hangar 9 30cc P-47 Build Thread - 2/15/2012 2:22 AM   
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Status: offline 		John, Great video. Looking forward to seeing them all. Thank you for doing them.

A problem with your website on the P-47D video page: If you click on the picture of the P-47D at the top, it brings you to the product page of the F4U-1D Corsair 50 ARF, .46-.55 by Hangar 9 (HAN2590), which I don't think was the intention.

Nick


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RE: Hangar 9 30cc P-47 Build Thread - 2/15/2012 10:05 PM   
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Status: offline 		Hey Nick, you are correct. I will get the site fixed. Thanks for the heads up.

Definitely not the intention.

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RE: Hangar 9 30cc P-47 Build Thread - 2/15/2012 10:39 PM   
Ron101



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Status: offline 		Any word when they might be coming in?

weeks, month? don't know?

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RE: Hangar 9 30cc P-47 Build Thread - 2/16/2012 4:47 AM   
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Status: offline 		P-47's are expected to arrive around the end of March, early April.

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RE: Hangar 9 30cc P-47 Build Thread - 2/16/2012 8:58 PM   
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Status: offline 		Thanks John,
I'm in no rush, I have tons of stuff to work on. But it's always nice to know how far out it is....
Thanks for the update, I know this one will be worth the wait.

Ron

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RE: Hangar 9 30cc P-47 Build Thread - 2/17/2012 4:05 PM   
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Status: offline 		Okay guys, time to mount the engine. I used the Evolution 40GX II with the Evolution wrap around muffler. The model was designed for this model and it bolts up nice and clean. There are templates for mounting multiple engine types in the kit. The templates included are for: Saito FG-30, Saito 1.80, E-flite Power 160, and Evolution 40.

pic #1 shows the template being positioned on the firewall. I have already drilled 2 5/64 holes in the top holes and screed the mount in place to hold its position while I drill the bottom mount holes.
pic #2 shows the template removed and the holes being enlarger to fit the blind buts on the back side.
pics #3 and #4 show me installing the blind nuts. This is done by screwing a machine screw with the blind nut and tightening it down. This will draw the blind nut into place. You will note I am using a wheel collar from the kit as a thick washer to ensure the screw does not pull through the firewall.
pics #5 and #6 show the correct orientation of the mounts. There is an L and R on the mounts. This stands for Left and Right. These are positioned base on the engine. The right side of the engine has the exhaust port. So the "R" mount will be on the left side of the model because the engine is inverted.


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RE: Hangar 9 30cc P-47 Build Thread - 2/17/2012 4:08 PM   
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Status: offline 		Final mounting of the engine.

The engine is positioned on the mounts and bolted in place with the longer bolts and nylon lock nuts. It will need to be pulled all the way out on the mount to meet the dimension stated in the manual. The dimension in the manual is perfect and works great. You will also note the two small pieces of tygon tubing over the needle vales on the carburetor. This makes it a bit easier to hold a screwdriver on them to adjust.


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RE: Hangar 9 30cc P-47 Build Thread - 2/17/2012 4:16 PM   
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Status: offline 		Next comes the muffler and ignition system.

pic #1 shows the high temp RTV being used to form a gasket on the muffler. Using this will also prevent the muffler bolts from coming undone during operation. Do not use loctite on these bolts.
pic #2 shows the exhaust flange clean and ready for the muffler.
pic #3 shows the muffler bolted in place and a good squeeze out of material when torqued down.
pic #4 shows a small hole drilled in the side of the mount to zip tie the ignition wire in place. You definitely do not want these wires flopping around possibly lying on the muffler and burning through. That would be a bad day.
pic #5 shows a small hole drilled on teh other mount to tie off the main ignition harness to the plug. Also note the balck teflon protective shieth is placed so the cable does not chafe against the motor mount during operation.
pic #6 shows the ignition module on the top of the motor box. It is held in place with 3 #2 wood crews.

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RE: Hangar 9 30cc P-47 Build Thread - 2/17/2012 4:37 PM   
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Status: offline 		pic #1 shows the small hole that I drilled and ground out for the battery lead and the LED lead to go through. These will reside inside the model.
pic #2 shows the JR Charge Switch in place with the LED next to it. The hole for the switch is cut out and ready for installation, as is the hole for the LED.

Time to build the fuel tank. The manual calls out saying that the included fuel line is good for use with gas motors. This is a misprint as there is no fuel line included with the kit. You will need to supply your fuel line. I used Dubro's medium Tygon. The next few steps will shop you how to build the tank and safety wire all fuel lines.

pic #3 and #4 show the clunk line built. You can see the close up of the safety wire wrap around the line 3 times before twisting it tight.
pic #5 shows the safety wire used. It is .025" in diameter and is stainless steel. Do not use the aluminum, it breaks way too easy. This wire is available from McMaster Carr. This bundle will last you forever. Link is here: http://www.mcmaster.com/#stainless-steel-safety-lock-wire/=gaf6xb
pic #6 shows the safety wire pliers you will need to make this job easy. You can find these at Harbor Freight. Link is here: http://www.harborfreight.com/9-inch-safety-wire-twister-45341.html


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RE: Hangar 9 30cc P-47 Build Thread - 2/17/2012 4:48 PM   
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Status: offline 		pic#1 shows the fuel tank being installed into the fuselage. It sits in a location that then locks it in place with a plate on top. You will also note the 2S lip 2000mah ignition battery on top of the fuel tank. The instructions call for placing it on the side of the fuel tank. Doing this would make a semi permanent installation. I prefer to remove my li-po's for charging. So I positioned the battery above the fuel tank.
pic #2 and #3 show the routing of the overflow line on the right side of the engine. You will note a 360° loop which aides in stopping the flow of fuel out this line during inverted maneuvers. Make sure it is held or clamped in place so it cannot move.
pic #4 shows the fuel line connected. Make sure to safety wire this connection once installed.


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RE: Hangar 9 30cc P-47 Build Thread - 2/17/2012 7:39 PM   
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Status: offline 		So with the engine mounted we need to hook up the throttle. For the most part the carburetors we use on gas engines have no real throttle arm. The geometry is routinely very poor. The goal is to increase the length of the arm so it takes about 120 - 130% of your travel adjustment for full throw on the throttle from cut off to max. So how do you that? Well we make up a new arm which is very simple.

I use a large JR servo wheel. You can also make one out of plywood or some other similar material. The pictures below show the process. You will need to remove the carb from the engine and then remove the barrel assembly the butterfly screws onto.

pic #1 shows the large JR servo wheel. One the left I have cut the base off. On the right is a stock wheel.
pic #2 shows the Zona saw that is used to cut the base of the wheel off.
pic #3 is a better view of the entire saw. This is the flexible saw from Zona. A great tool for the shop.


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RE: Hangar 9 30cc P-47 Build Thread - 2/17/2012 7:57 PM   
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Status: offline 		Carb work is next.

pic #1 and #2 show the carb off the engine and the barrel removed.
pic #3 shows the barrel being placed on the wheel and a few marks for where to drill holes to attach the wheel to the throttle lever. Now drill the three holes where you black marks are with a 1/16" drill bit. I used (3) #2 small wood screws to then attach the plastic arm to the metal arm.


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RE: Hangar 9 30cc P-47 Build Thread - 2/19/2012 1:02 AM   
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ORIGINAL: John Redman

Next comes the muffler and ignition system.

pic #1 shows the high temp RTV being used to form a gasket on the muffler. Using this will also prevent the muffler bolts from coming undone during operation. Do not use loctite on these bolts.
pic #2 shows the exhaust flange clean and ready for the muffler.
pic #3 shows the muffler bolted in place and a good squeeze out of material when torqued down.
pic #4 shows a small hole drilled in the side of the mount to zip tie the ignition wire in place. You definitely do not want these wires flopping around possibly lying on the muffler and burning through. That would be a bad day.
pic #5 shows a small hole drilled on teh other mount to tie off the main ignition harness to the plug. Also note the balck teflon protective shieth is placed so the cable does not chafe against the motor mount during operation.
pic #6 shows the ignition module on the top of the motor box. It is held in place with 3 #2 wood crews.
[/quote

Hi, John,

I am curious as to why you chose the high temp silicone as opposed to an actual gasket. I am guessing this may be a better and more customized seal?

thanks!
~Pepper



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RE: Hangar 9 30cc P-47 Build Thread - 2/19/2012 4:26 AM   
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Status: offline 		HI JOHN.
Just a question is there any plans to do a giant scale Corsair.I have been looking at different brands of large scale Corsairs which all seem to hard to get in AUSTRAILA.My LHS is Modelflite in Adelaide who Ive been dealing with for a quite a long time and are dealers for HH which would make it easier to get.I recently ordered H9 P40 which im looking forward to getting .
This P47 build is outstanding keep up the great  work mate im learning a lot.

CHEERS SHAYNE.



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RE: Hangar 9 30cc P-47 Build Thread - 2/19/2012 3:29 PM   
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Status: offline 		John next time you do a video of the plane could you pick it up so I could get a better look at it. been useing high temp silicone on all my gas engines works great and loose alot less muffler bolts conpresses when you tighten the bolts

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RE: Hangar 9 30cc P-47 Build Thread - 2/20/2012 2:14 AM   
John Redman


 

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Status: offline 		Have always found the high temp silicone to work far better than gaskets. It compress's ever so much and ensure the bolts always stay tight.

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RE: Hangar 9 30cc P-47 Build Thread - 2/20/2012 5:05 PM   
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Status: offline 		Continuance of the throttle pushrod system.

pic #1 and #2 show the throttle arm and carb installed on the engine. With this longer arm the throttle is better controlled and give a much more linear throttle range with the gas engine.

Next we will want to set up the throttle end points. I like to begin with the ATV's for the throttle set at 0% for both the high and low end. By doing this we will set the carb arm at the mid position or 50% throttle. I also position the throttle servo arm 90° to the case. This is the mid position of 50% throttle position. Then we will dial in both the top and low end ATV's. The goal here is to have the throttle ATV to end up begin in the upper 110 - 120 range for both values; high and low throttle.

pic #3 shows the mid throttle position of the throttle arm or 50% position.
Pic #4 shows the low idle or shut down position of the throttle arm.
pic #5 shows the high end or full throttle position of the arm.


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RE: Hangar 9 30cc P-47 Build Thread - 2/21/2012 7:13 PM   
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Status: offline 		With the throttle hooked up most of the build is complete. We still have battery installation and fuel tank installation to complete the inside of the model. With that I decided it was time to begin working on the dummy motor, pitot tube, and main antenna mast.

The Dummy motor included is pretty nice for the kit so I used it. It comes all silver out of the box which is a nice color to have as a base. All paints used on the motor are Model Master Colors by Testors. Flat Black, Silver, and Aggressor Gray. You will note the lower inlet fairing is painted zinc chromate yellow as per the originals. This is the paint that was mentioned earlier in this thread from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty. It works great.

pic #1 shows the dummy motor with the cylinder heads painted gray, the back area painted flat black, and the inlet fairing painted chromate yellow.
pic #2 is a close up of the gray color and you can see I have already begun to weather the cylinder heads. Forgot to shoot the picture before I began the detailing part.
pic #3 shows the use of very fine #0000 steel wool on the cylinder heads to rub the gray paint off and show the silver. Because of het raised detail on the dummy motor, it will look like cylinder fins.
pic #4, #5, #6, and #7 show the black chalk being applied with a small brush to the cylinder headsand then rubbing it off with steel wool. Do this until the desired effect has been achieved you are looking for.

Keep in mind that these engiens were air cooled so for the most part although a bit dirty they were kept clean for cooling purposes.


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RE: Hangar 9 30cc P-47 Build Thread - 2/21/2012 7:23 PM   
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Status: offline 		As I continue to work the dummy motor you will note that I removed the pushrods and small tiny wires that were installed for the plug wires. This made it much easier to weather the motor and work it up. Once complete I reinstalled the pushrod tubes. I have left the plug wires off for right now as I look for a better solution to the scale effect for the wires over the original included bare wire that was there.

pic #1 shows the motor sitting ready for installation into the cowling with the initial cutout for the motor done. These cutouts are described in the manual and the key is to make them so nothing on the motor interferes with the engine when installed.
pic #2 and #3 show the dummy motor installed in the front of the cowling. Continue to work the cutouts around the carb so nothing hits or interferes. You want to make sure the throttle can moved through its entire range without any issues. You also want to make sure nothing is rubbing the main fuel line as this could cause a hole to chafe in the line causing an engine out situation when you go to fly.
pic #4 is installing the dummy gearbox to the front of the motor. This will need to be cut out to clear the main crankcase and drive washer of the engine. You will note this part was painted gray as well and then washed with the black chalk and steel wool for the weathered look.
pic #5 and #6 show the cutouts for the carb and throttle linkage. Keep everything clear.


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John Redman
Team Horizon, JetCat USA Rep

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