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Reaction to Diesel Fumes...? - 1/15/2012 10:47 PM   
Broken Wings



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Status: online 		Has anybody had problems with the fumes their Diesel engines produce?

I ran one of my engines on the stand today and must have ingested a little exhaust. I got to feeling a little light headed/dizzy. I was outside in the fresh air but I'm sure I must have unintentionally inhaled some of the exhaust fumes.





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RE: Reaction to Diesel Fumes...? - 1/15/2012 10:50 PM   
RocketRob



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Status: offline 		The ether perhaps?
Our flying field has no trash service and we must pack out what we pack in.
Sometimes after driving home with all my oily rags and towels in the car, by the time I get home i am ready for a nap.

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RE: Reaction to Diesel Fumes...? - 1/15/2012 11:10 PM   
AMB


 

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Status: online 		I have had no issues as a matter of fact I find glow exhaust irritating burning feeling in eyes and coughing I doubt ether would remain in the rags maybe a trace you would smell, very volatile thats why we lose it in loose topped containers
there is no ether left in exhaust it burned in the engine sure oil and maybe a little kero ( thats what we smell in the rags kero )martin

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RE: Reaction to Diesel Fumes...? - 1/15/2012 11:37 PM   
qazimoto


 

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Can't say that the smell bothers me and I run a lot of diesels.

What does bother me is the smell of burnt Jet A-1 at airports. It does make me feel sick.

Ray

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RE: Reaction to Diesel Fumes...? - 1/15/2012 11:42 PM   
pe reivers



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Status: offline 		stating the components of your fuel might help. I never felt dizzy by using equal parts ether, paraffin and oil.


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RE: Reaction to Diesel Fumes...? - 1/16/2012 1:09 AM   
Broken Wings



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quote:

ORIGINAL: pe reivers

stating the components of your fuel might help. I never felt dizzy by using equal parts ether, paraffin and oil.



It's store bought Davis Diesel Fuel...

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RE: Reaction to Diesel Fumes...? - 1/16/2012 8:41 AM   
greggles47


 

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Status: offline 		On rare occasions when we're testing diesel TR models, I'll feel a little off after a long prac session.

It is usually on still days after an extended period of flying.

Because I'm over 50' from the model, I'd think that ether has little to do with it, probably kero fumes.

Never dizzy, just a little nausia

Regards

G

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RE: Reaction to Diesel Fumes...? - 1/16/2012 9:37 AM   
Mr Cox



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Status: offline 		The IPN and other ignition improvers are nasty stuff. The exhaust may contain some other nasty stuff too, it is very corrosive. I try to clean the model at the field and leave all the use paper in trash can there. Still can't stand the smell of the plane though...

Edit: Many chemicals are also absorbed through the skin, so one should be careful about getting a lot of fuel on your hands.

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RE: Reaction to Diesel Fumes...? - 1/16/2012 10:08 AM   
123Cat


 

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The smell is good , I like it and the improver is not bad either

Thats one of the main reasons I like diesels 



Its the ether , it use to be served over the bar, those were the good old days     




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RE: Reaction to Diesel Fumes...? - 1/16/2012 10:12 AM   
raglafart


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Broken Wings

Has anybody had problems with the fumes their Diesel engines produce?

I ran one of my engines on the stand today and must have ingested a little exhaust. I got to feeling a little light headed/dizzy. I was outside in the fresh air but I'm sure I must have unintentionally inhaled some of the exhaust fumes.






If you are over 50, go and see your doctor. The chances of your fuel, unless you're swallowing it, effecting you are highly improbable.
Light headed and dizzy are signs of a myriad of ailments, dehydration being one, low blood pressure another.

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RE: Reaction to Diesel Fumes...? - 1/16/2012 10:29 AM   
fiery


 

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Status: offline 		My reaction is a feeling of well being and happiness, as I like using diesels. No other model aero engine compares

I like the smell of a diesel engine as you lift them out of box or take them out of their baggie a few days after they were run. It's the smell of fun.

An old team race flying friend / vietnam vet. sits down stream when I am running my diesels. Just to smell the exhaust. Before anyone posts any cautionary notes, he has cancer. Caring about what health effects it may have? Very low in his priorities. All I know is he loves it. Reminds him of good times when he was a just a nipper.

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RE: Reaction to Diesel Fumes...? - 1/16/2012 10:49 AM   
qazimoto


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Cox

The IPN and other ignition improvers are nasty stuff. The exhaust may contain some other nasty stuff too, it is very corrosive. I try to clean the model at the field and leave all the use paper in trash can there. Still can't stand the smell of the plane though...

Edit: Many chemicals are also absorbed through the skin, so one should be careful about getting a lot of fuel on your hands.



If you start reading the MSDS for Iso Propyl Nitrate (IPN), see for example : http://www.coleparmer.com/Assets/Msds/10869.htm

your immediate reaction is probably that it's very nasty stuff. However look at the section on Toxicology.

quote:


Carcinogenicity:
CAS# 1712-64-7: Not listed by ACGIH, IARC, NTP, or CA Prop 65.

Epidemiology: No information found
Teratogenicity: No information found
Reproductive Effects: No information found
Mutagenicity: No information found
Neurotoxicity: No information found


Which gives a completely different story. In fact it's not too bad!

Also there is a vast difference between Occupational and the occasional exposure of the casual user.

Now I'm not suggesting that anyone go bathing in the stuff.

In contrast check the MSDS for unleaded petrol or Methanol.




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RE: Reaction to Diesel Fumes...? - 1/16/2012 11:58 AM   
Mr Cox



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Status: offline 		I thought it was used for "Poppers"?
I'm not a chemist, Amyl Nitrate might be more unhealthy than IPN or DII and I've just been told to be careful with them...

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RE: Reaction to Diesel Fumes...? - 1/16/2012 12:13 PM   
Mr Cox



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Status: offline 		I don't think that "No information found" is a good thing, they simply don't have the information, and this doesn't sound very nice to me;

Danger! Strong oxidizer. Contact with other material may cause a fire. Flammable liquid and vapor. May cause severe skin irritation and possible burns. May cause severe respiratory and digestive tract irritation with possible burns. May cause central nervous system depression. May cause methemoglobinemia.
Target Organs: Blood, central nervous system, blood forming organs.


Potential Health Effects
Eye: May cause permanent corneal opacification. May cause chemical conjunctivitis and corneal damage.
Skin: May cause severe irritation and possible burns. May cause irritation and dermatitis. May cause cyanosis of the extremities.
Ingestion: May cause gastrointestinal irritation with nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. Methemoglobinemia is characterized by dizziness, drowsiness, headache, shortness of breath, cyanosis (bluish discoloration of skin due to deficient oxygenation of the blood), rapid heart rate and chocolate-brown colored blood. May cause burns to the gastrointestinal tract. Ingestion of large amounts may cause CNS depression. Ingestion of nitrate containing compounds can lead to methemoglobinemia. May cause nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea, possibly with blood.
Inhalation: Aspiration may lead to pulmonary edema. Methemoglobinemia is characterized by dizziness, drowsiness, headache, shortness of breath, cyanosis (bluish discoloration of skin due to deficient oxygenation of the blood), rapid heart rate and chocolate-brown blood. Vapors may cause dizziness or suffocation. May cause burning sensation in the chest. May cause acute pulmonary edema, asphyxia, chemical pneumonitis, and upper airway obstruction caused by edema.
Chronic: May cause methemoglobinemia, which is characterized by chocolate-brown colored blood, headache, weakness, dizziness, breath shortness, cyanosis (bluish skin due to deficient oxygenation of blood), rapid heart rate, unconsciousness and possible death.

< Message edited by Mr Cox -- 1/16/2012 12:42 PM >

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RE: Reaction to Diesel Fumes...? - 1/16/2012 12:44 PM   
qazimoto


 

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Status: online 		As I said, there is a vast difference between Occupational and the occasional exposure of the casual user.

We're using it at about 1.5% by volume occasionally.

It was used in large concentrations of 100% in machines used to start Rolls Royce Avon Jet engines. That was a hazardous use.

Have you checked out the MSDS of unleaded petrol?

Ray

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RE: Reaction to Diesel Fumes...? - 1/16/2012 12:50 PM   
GerKonig


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: locktite401


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Cox

The IPN and other ignition improvers are nasty stuff. The exhaust may contain some other nasty stuff too, it is very corrosive. I try to clean the model at the field and leave all the use paper in trash can there. Still can't stand the smell of the plane though...

Edit: Many chemicals are also absorbed through the skin, so one should be careful about getting a lot of fuel on your hands.



If you start reading the MSDS for Iso Propyl Nitrate (IPN), see for example : http://www.coleparmer.com/Assets/Msds/10869.htm

your immediate reaction is probably that it's very nasty stuff. However look at the section on Toxicology.

quote:


Carcinogenicity:
CAS# 1712-64-7: Not listed by ACGIH, IARC, NTP, or CA Prop 65.

Epidemiology: No information found
Teratogenicity: No information found
Reproductive Effects: No information found
Mutagenicity: No information found
Neurotoxicity: No information found


Which gives a completely different story. In fact it's not too bad!

Also there is a vast difference between Occupational and the occasional exposure of the casual user.

Now I'm not suggesting that anyone go bathing in the stuff.

In contrast check the MSDS for unleaded petrol or Methanol.






I disagree, look it up at a serious MSDS: http://www.chemblink.com/MSDS/MSDSFiles/1712-64-7_Fisher%20Scientific.pdf

I would not use this product carelessly.

This gives a very different story. Look at the whole picture.

Gerry




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RE: Reaction to Diesel Fumes...? - 1/16/2012 1:09 PM   
AMB


 

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Status: online 		You have far more exposure with your weed eater, lawn mower, garden tractor, (engine much larger more exhaust) and how about sitting in traffic with your car. ??If you are are off to the side or in front of a model engine you are not going to breath in much, odor, yes your nose is pretty sensitive martin
Of course with any chemical or solvent avoid skin exposure

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RE: Reaction to Diesel Fumes...? - 1/16/2012 1:38 PM   
earlwb


 

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Status: offline 		Well, I would assume that the ether is the main culprit for your reaction to the fuel fumes etc.
But I know its possible someone could develop allergies or strong adverse reactions to other substances over time.
I know one guy who developed allergies or adverse reactions to Epoxy and Superglue as well. So he can't build a airplane kit for himself anymore, unless he does it using Elmers or Titebond glues.
But as mentioned already, you might have another underlying problem that made it seem like you reacted with the model diesel fuel, so it might be worth while to check with your doctor.


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RE: Reaction to Diesel Fumes...? - 1/16/2012 3:41 PM   
DeviousDave


 

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Status: offline 		I think I am mildly allergic to diesel exhaust, particularly if I run a burst of prime off inside and then smell it until it dissipates. My sinuses get ticked off at me for a few days, no issues with running them outdoors that I can tell.

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RE: Reaction to Diesel Fumes...? - 1/16/2012 4:25 PM   
gkamysz



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Status: offline 		I get a reaction to the oil in fuel, I think. It seems to happen no matter what kind of engine I run, glow, diesel gas, E85, plus whatever else I've tried. Usually only when there is no wind. my sinuses get stuffy and I'll end up with a headache, hours later or the next day.

I doubt there is IPN in Davis fuel, probably octyl nitrate. You could always ask for an MSDS to take to your doc or research yourself.

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RE: Reaction to Diesel Fumes...? - 1/16/2012 5:01 PM   
AMB


 

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Status: online 		JUST A POINT Diethyl Ether was used as an inhalant for anesthesia starting in the mid 1850s, nitrous oxide (laughing gas before that) of course enough air (oxygen) had to be there too. this i think proves the RELATIVE SAFETY of course there are a few that had an allergic reaction but this can be with any substance
Newer drugs for anesthesia still have issues in a few patients. Methanol in glow fuel is an issue check the MSDS on that one martin

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RE: Reaction to Diesel Fumes...? - 1/16/2012 6:48 PM   
KeroPower


 

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Status: online 		Yes the msds for methanol is scary, however is glow fuel really that bad? I mean what about all those Cox .049 powered toys that kids played with years ago? I do not think they are all blind and suffering from kidney damage today from methanol poisoning.

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RE: Reaction to Diesel Fumes...? - 1/22/2012 6:16 PM   
nitroairplane



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Status: offline 		This thread is sorta waking me up!
I am around both glow and diesel fumes on a regular basis and have been doing so for ages more glow than diesel.
I remember a few weeks ago I dropped a glass bottle of high ether diesel in my house and was woozy for hours after that ready for sleep it was 2 litres of 45% ether and 3% IPN pretty potent.



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RE: Reaction to Diesel Fumes...? - 1/22/2012 6:50 PM   
AMB


 

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Status: online 		You should have ventilated the house at once, and gotten out ether is an anesthetic ( why whoozy) plus CREATES AN explosive atmosphere IT SHOULD NEVER BE HANDLED OR MIXED INSIDE ANY CLOSED AREA martin

why was it in a glass container, not metal can??????

You are indeed quite lucky nothing happened any spark such as walking across a rug, and you get the little spark when you grab the door knob (static discharge would be enough )
light switch spark, pilot light on gas stove or water heater an other source (open flame)

Please do not take this as diesel fuel or any fuel for that matter as being dangerous if handled properly, any flammable substance requires proper handling an other example that comes to mind is refueling your lawnmower while its running every year this shows up on the news with some one getting burned doing this


< Message edited by AMB -- 1/22/2012 7:38 PM >

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RE: Reaction to Diesel Fumes...? - 1/22/2012 8:37 PM   
nitroairplane



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Yes I took all the necessary precautions once it had happened.
It was off to the side of the house where all the chemicals are kept, The room is always kept well ventilated with no rugs ETC so a minimum rist of sparks from static electricity.
Windows opened and luckily no body in the house smokes.
I am still lucky that nothing happened.
Why was it i a glass container?
I ask myself the same question I really should have had it in a metal can.
The large glass bottle is what I use for mixing fuel and I had already started mixing when i found out that I had not metal containers free for use.



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