cmoulder
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Joined: 7/31/2006
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From: Ossining,
NY, USA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveR
Ok, it seems I need to respond to a few comments. I don't ask YS or Rich for one simple reason, they won't tell you. PERIOD! If YS had a working gas engine coming soon, with the necessary cajones, they couldn't give away their current stock of glow fuel 175's, so it won't be available until the current supply of 175's were sold. Just like they do now, no 175s come out until the 170s were gone, no 170s until the 160s were sold. Unless you live in Japan, then YS will sell you whatever they have. Perhaps I have boxed myself in, so what, then I just won't fly pattern. If I don't enjoy it, I won't fly it, so again, no electric for me. And I refuse to pay the glow fuel cost, so no YS for me either unless they release a gas engine. Pattern is hardly my only R/C interest, if anything it is the passing interest, and if what I want is not going to be available, then I will find other interests. The basic question of this thread was about YS having a gas engine in development, not how stupid or short sighted I am for not flying electric, or the esoterics of whether one could be developed with the required power. It appears no gas engine is on the horizon for YS, so now I will go away and find a more suitable branch of the hobby such as classic pattern or IMAC.
DaveR,
Pattern is, for most of the people involved in this conversation, a discipline and a competetive endeavor. It is still a lot of fun for us, because if it weren't we would have done as you suggest by bagging it and moving along to some other aspect of R/C. We all started out competing with ourselves to improve the geometry of the maneuvers and the straightness of our lines and the centering of our rolls. We did this because we got tired of simply flying around and boring holes in the sky. Pattern is about flying with a plan in mind and putting the model where you want it in the sky and making it do what you want it to do no matter the wind conditions (granted, up to a point). As I like to say and as I am sure someone has said before, "Pattern puts the 'C' in Radio Control."
This takes a lot of practice and a lot of time. It is the perfect discipline for people who are content to see incremental progress over a long period of time, punctuated by episodes of banging their heads against a wall and then coming back for more. It is not for those who demand instant gratification. Yes, there are a few pattern prodigies who skipped a lot of this, but they comprise a microscopically tiny minority. The rest of us are somewhere along the continuum trying to improve our skills while juggling work and family obligations and figuring out how to finance our addiction.
After a while you're feeling pretty good about your flying and want to take it to the next level: competition. As I have found over the past couple of years, absolutely nothing makes me concentrate like flying in a competition. The best I have been able to replicate in practice is to fly at a field where mostly pattern guys hang out and have my mentor/coach (Anthony R) call the sequence for me with a very critical peanut gallery looking on. Or have somebody videotape the flight. Something to add some external pressure. This I first learned from Archie Stafford and Dave Lockhart, that you have to enjoy performing under pressure.
With regard to the propulsion system issue, a couple of years ago I was in the same boat as you: no glow, no electric, period! Which meant gas, so I did keyword searches on RCU and elsewhere to see what the options were for a pattern gasser. After much poking about, I found that MTK (MattK) had done a lot of experimenting with all manner of 2-stroke gassers and was currently working with the new American-made gasser, the Syssa (SAP) 180. I tagged along and got all kinds of help from Matt while setting up a Focus II with a soft engine mount (RCU thread also by Matt) and a ES pipe. We did a lot of experimenting with the pipe tuning, pipe coupling material, and props... wow, a lot of props, with some very impressive custom hybrids hand-made by Matt himself. If you do as Matt suggests and search the various pattern gasser options he suggested, you will find a "SAP 180 Cookbook" that we put together as a result of that effort.
I flew the crap out of that Focus II/SAP 180. It worked very well for me at the time because what I needed was something that didn't cost a lot up front (it ended up being a bit over $2100) and was also cheap to fly. I was flying in a lower class anyway, and needed a lot of stick time just to learn the basic stuff. Then we started having problems with the front bearing seal, to the point that I developed a crack in the crankcase near the front bearing. Syssa repaired it quickly and got it back to me, but then at a pattern contest later Matt and I discovered a leaking bearing seal in his engine. We struggled some more with the front bearing issue (I had another leak in my second SAP) with the manufacturer, who subsequently changed the bearing specs, but by then it was too much for me. I wanted simply to fly and have absolutely minimal maintenance issues to deal with. I live in a condominium and have no workshop except the den that my very understanding wife lets me invade on occasion, and a small outside deck where many times I have worked on my pattern models in sub-freezing temperatures. Look through the photos on the SAP thread and you will see I constructed the pipe tunnel for the Focus II on my deck when the temps were in the 20's. MattK has made it his mission in pattern to come up with a viable gasser solution, but as I applaud his perseverance I had to move on.
At long last, having seen the performance of electrics and having seen some very good fliers (specifically, Arch) switch from glow to electric, I decided to give it a try. I have not been disappointed, for all the many reasons stated earlier.
What I discovered is that pattern is not about the propulsion system. It is about maximizing quality flying time and minimizing maintenance issues related to vibration, mostly, and airplane damage or loss due to deadsticks. The "soul" of pattern is in the flying, not in the equipment. I find that now I do a lot more flying and a lot less maintenance and worrying. It is much easier to concentrate when you have absolutely no doubt that after the next stall turn the motor will still be running.
I know this has been lengthy, but I offer it with all due respect as one who has been in a similar position. I don't know anything about you and your length of time in the hobby or your level of experience/accomplishments in pattern or other facets of R/C.
With best regards and wishes for success in your quest,
_____________________________
Bob
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RE: Will YS ever go gas/petrol? - 
