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[Poll]

Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose into our hobby?
Yes, our self-policing efforts (i.e. AMA Safety Codes) aren''t working.
  4% (25)
Yes, the world has changed considerably since 9/11.
  15% (83)
I''m not sure.
  5% (29)
No, the FAA has no business regulating "hobby" airplanes.
  34% (180)
No, we are fully capable of policing ourselves.
  12% (66)
No, the perceived threat to society doesn't exist!
  13% (72)
I hate polls like this!
  12% (65)


Total Votes : 520
(last vote on : 5/7/2012 6:43 AM)
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RE: Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose in... - 1/25/2012 2:23 AM   
HoundDog


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: H5487

quote:

ORIGINAL: HoundDog
Just bust VFR minumems at a private restricted airport and if some one turns you in, then see if the FAA can't pull your ticket to Ride ......


Adhering to minimums are inflight rules and have nothing to do with whatever kinds of airports are below the planes.

Harvey
So U believe that the FAR's don't apply to Private Restricted airports.


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RE: Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose in... - 1/25/2012 2:31 AM   
H5487


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HoundDog


quote:

ORIGINAL: H5487

quote:

ORIGINAL: HoundDog
Just bust VFR minumems at a private restricted airport and if some one turns you in, then see if the FAA can't pull your ticket to Ride ......


Adhering to minimums are inflight rules and have nothing to do with whatever kinds of airports are below the planes.

Harvey
So U believe that the FAR's don't apply to Private Restricted airports.


I don't believe that's what I said.

Harvey

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RE: Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose in... - 1/25/2012 2:39 AM   
rich6170



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Status: offline 		Do we really think that FAA is looking to regulate the fact that someone crashes his 40 to 120 size airplane? Regardless of how often?
I think the FAA involvement comes when someone gets involves in such things as FPV's, over 40% Over 200 MPH (actual) or those brainchild 4 year olds controlling aircraft and Helli's too close to the crowds. The FAA involvment probably will not be felt by those of us that have joined the "controlling element" club, AMA. Those aforementioned classes of enthusiasts may be looked at for the protection of the public and self. The hobby has advanced far past the boundries that the "rules" of the AMA can control as a volunteer to join club. They are simply (possibly) going to bring the rules of the AMA to an umbrella level to cover anyone that is involved in the hobby. Kinda shows how well the AMA really has done for the first 100 years or so. Mabee if everyone that wants to get involved in the hobby would join and follow the "rules" those people wouldnt worry so much about the FAA getting involved.
Rich

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RE: Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose in... - 1/25/2012 2:44 AM   
HoundDog


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: H5487


quote:

ORIGINAL: HoundDog


quote:

ORIGINAL: H5487

quote:

ORIGINAL: HoundDog
Just bust VFR minumems at a private restricted airport and if some one turns you in, then see if the FAA can't pull your ticket to Ride ......


Adhering to minimums are inflight rules and have nothing to do with whatever kinds of airports are below the planes.

Harvey
So U believe that the FAR's don't apply to Private Restricted airports.


I don't believe that's what I said.

Harvey
Harvey ... Then just what did U say? Sorry if i mis understood U.


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RE: Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose in... - 1/25/2012 3:06 AM  1 votes
H5487


 

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Status: offline 		Rich,

We've been speculating quite a bit in this thread about what we THINK the FAA's NPRM is going to do to us. The popular belief is that the FAA will likely use weight and speed criteria to separate "model airplanes" from UAVs. We also think that the FAA will apply rules based on whether the planes are used for hobby or commercial purposes. (Fly a park flyer foamie for fun and nothing will change other than abide by the AMA Safety Code. However, fly a large or fast plane for commercial or government purposes and fall under new rules.) In addition, we're predicting that the FAA will establish increased separation standards between R/C and full-scale operations.

Nobody thinks that the FAA will require modelers to join the AMA and nobody thinks that the FAA is out to ground us. (Although there ARE one or two doomsayers who are convinced that the end of our hobby is coming.) And as long as we continue to demonstrate good discipline with our models, we doubt that the FAA will start patrolling our R/C fields and fly-ins. In all liklihood, we will continue to police ourselves.

Nobody thinks that the FAA is going to investigate model airplane crashes and last but not least, we highly doubt that the FAA is going to require us to get model airplane licenses.

So Rich, you can sleep soundly tonight. We've got it all figured out.

Harvey

< Message edited by H5487 -- 1/25/2012 3:46 AM >

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RE: Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose in... - 1/25/2012 3:12 AM   
H5487


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HoundDog


quote:

ORIGINAL: H5487


quote:

ORIGINAL: HoundDog


quote:

ORIGINAL: H5487

quote:

ORIGINAL: HoundDog
Just bust VFR minumems at a private restricted airport and if some one turns you in, then see if the FAA can't pull your ticket to Ride ......


Adhering to minimums are inflight rules and have nothing to do with whatever kinds of airports are below the planes.

Harvey
So U believe that the FAR's don't apply to Private Restricted airports.


I don't believe that's what I said.

Harvey
Harvey ... Then just what did U say? Sorry if i mis understood U.



H-Dog,

You implied that busting VFR minimums at a private-restricted airport is just as serious as doing so at any other airport (which is true), and I simply pointed out that busting minimums is an airborne rule and has nothing to do with airports.

Harvey


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RE: Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose in... - 1/25/2012 3:31 AM   
HoundDog


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: H5487


quote:

ORIGINAL: HoundDog


quote:

ORIGINAL: H5487


quote:

ORIGINAL: HoundDog


quote:

ORIGINAL: H5487

quote:

ORIGINAL: HoundDog
Just bust VFR minumems at a private restricted airport and if some one turns you in, then see if the FAA can't pull your ticket to Ride ......


Adhering to minimums are inflight rules and have nothing to do with whatever kinds of airports are below the planes.

Harvey
So U believe that the FAR's don't apply to Private Restricted airports.


I don't believe that's what I said.

Harvey
Harvey ... Then just what did U say? Sorry if i mis understood U.



H-Dog,

You implied that busting VFR minimums at a private-restricted airport is just as serious as any other airport (which is true), and I simply pointed out that busting minimums is an airborne rule and has nothing to do with airports on the ground.

Harvey

If a pilot crashes on a private-restricted airport they have to fill out the same paper work required by the FAR's as some Jet Jockey at LAX does after an incident or accident. Anyways it's a moot point and has nothing to do with the FAA and our models. I'll bet we'll have a good laugh about all the worry this UNpublished NPRM has caused.


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RE: Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose in... - 1/25/2012 3:42 AM   
ira d


 

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ORIGINAL: pkoury


quote:

ORIGINAL: ira d


Any officer can enforce any laws be it local state federal dont believe it just rob a bank the local cops will pick you up but the feds will prosecute
same goes if you interfere with a flight crew on a airplane.


Not so, the law enforcement agency must have jurisdiction.


What I said was correct but you are free to belive what you want, Like I said you could rob a bank which is a fed crime then kidnap a bank employee
and take them to another state but odds are it wont be the FBI that will arrest that person but it will be the local police in that state.

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RE: Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose in... - 1/25/2012 3:54 AM   
rcmichael


 

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Status: offline 		The Government is the problem, not the answer. Since we the people are the constitutional owners of the so called government, we are also the reason for our governments out of control approach to common sense! We NEED TO STOP THE BULL! We are responsible for electing all the worthless crap infesting our so called leadership! If you don't like what is being done to our hobby then vote wisely! If you want a socialist society then move to another country! That is the bottom line!

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RE: Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose in... - 1/25/2012 4:02 AM   
H5487


 

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The Government is the problem, not the answer. Since we the people are the constitutional owners of the so called government, we are also the reason for our governments out of control approach to common sense! We NEED TO STOP THE BULL! We are responsible for electing all the worthless crap infesting our so called leadership! If you don't like what is being done to our hobby then vote wisely! If you want a socialist society then move to another country! That is the bottom line!


You are assuming that in a democracy, the majority will elect competent leaders. Unfortunately, the Achilles Heel of a democracy is that if the majority of its citizens are idiots, then they are free to elect idiot leaders.

Harvey

< Message edited by H5487 -- 1/25/2012 10:15 AM >

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RE: Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose in... - 1/25/2012 4:47 AM   
pkoury


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ira d


quote:

ORIGINAL: pkoury


quote:

ORIGINAL: ira d


Any officer can enforce any laws be it local state federal dont believe it just rob a bank the local cops will pick you up but the feds will prosecute
same goes if you interfere with a flight crew on a airplane.


Not so, the law enforcement agency must have jurisdiction.


What I said was correct but you are free to belive what you want, Like I said you could rob a bank which is a fed crime then kidnap a bank employee
and take them to another state but odds are it wont be the FBI that will arrest that person but it will be the local police in that state.


This is off topic but you are wrong in your belief. With over thirty years in Federal Law enfocement I can assure you that jurisdiction determines what laws a law enforcement officer can enforce. Your any officer any law statement is incorrect.

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RE: Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose in... - 1/25/2012 5:52 AM   
Sport_Pilot



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quote:

ORIGINAL: H5487

quote:

ORIGINAL: HoundDog
Just bust VFR minumems at a private restricted airport and if some one turns you in, then see if the FAA can't pull your ticket to Ride ......


Adhering to minimums are inflight rules and have nothing to do with whatever kinds of airports are below the planes.

Harvey


Concur.  And also the restriction for minimum clearance does not apply when landing, regardless if it is an airport, field, or sandbar.


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RE: Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose in... - 1/25/2012 5:57 AM   
Sport_Pilot



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Status: offline 		The regulations we had been discussing were pertaining to airports, not the inflight rules.  These are the FARS and AC's that tell how wide the runway is, how far structures must be from the runway and taxiway,  what the specifications should be for the lighting, etc.  Not the inflight and aircraft regulations.

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RE: Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose in... - 1/25/2012 11:33 AM   
on_your_six


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HoundDog
quote:

ORIGINAL: on_your_six
I agree, my point was that there is really only one penalty... kicking the flier out of the club. There are a lot of reasons for a crash, loosing an engine or an obvious mechanical failure might not be a reason to count the crash. At the same time, if a flier is consistently flying rags and they are crashing regularly... that might be a preventable crash and countable. The requirement for re-certification might end some willful reckless actions. The potential of monetary penalties might further reduce willful disregard of rules.

Nobody wants to be the ''Fed'' and enforce club rules is my experience. Some times it needs to be done and it is usually an ugly affair. Usually it pits guys that don't generally like each other to begin with. If one of the regular crashers puts a plane down on top of my vehicle, it is not going to be a pretty sight. Hopefully, rules will prevent a careless flier from continuing without additional training. If the additional training does not correct the problem... then the choice is obvious... kicking the flier out.

The thing that I like about the FAA rules is that when something serious does happen, there are rules and established penalties to resolve a problem.

An excessive number of crashes might bring everyone's focus on a pilot but I would think that the club's course of action would best be determined by whether the crashes were due to the pilot's inexperience or willful disregard of the rules. Correcting such disrespect is rarely rectified by additional training. That requires an attitude change and is usually better corrected through counselling(sp), probation/punishment, or outright banning the individual from the property. (Especially if his actions brought injury to others!)
Harvey

quote:

We've got a guy that we kid about that he has a reserved parking space at the local hobby shop ... He has at least 3 to 4 major crashes per month ... I've seen him do 3 planes in one day ... Everyone thinks it funny. The one guy I don't see as funny is the guy that takes off right along the safty fence and 2 out of 3 take offs end up going over the pilot stations and or the pits. The powers to be ie. the Club Offerices refuse to do any thing about it. I wanted to make it manditory to pass a series of things like stright take offs and landings loop roll laft and right turns to final ect. before a student or new member could fly solo.  Hell they wanted to through me out because I was causeing discorde in the club. How many people do U have in your club that can't make right hand turns toward them selves.


As with EVERYTHING in this life... follow the money. Most of the guys have the impression that crashes weed out the wannabees from the fliers and the crashes are usually entertaining. The expense of buying and creating new aircraft usually does do that. There are some really determined souls out there though. You are right, nobody wants to force a guy out of the club... I have only heard of one very rare occurrence of that happening. The club needs members to pay for upkeep... again follow the money. Most of the guys are VERY reasonable and try to solve "problem flier" situations behind the scenes. It is hard to tell grandpa no. That is probably one of the hardest things the FAA does too, but they do it for safety.

Do you realize that GA pilots have a accident rate of 6.6 per 100k hours? 2-3 times more than light commercial pilots.
.

I WISH THEY WOULD JUST RELEASE THE DARNED PROPOSED REGULATIONS AND GET THE PARTY STARTED SO WE COULD QUIT SPECULATING.

.

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RE: Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose in... - 1/25/2012 1:37 PM   
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Many a member's expression of self-worth in jeopardy.

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RE: Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose in... - 1/25/2012 1:40 PM   
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Status: offline 		Maybe I should be selling my jets now while I can still get fifty cents on the dollar, like some people in another thread think that's the going value?  If I wait until the FAA sets regulations, I might only get ten cents on the dollar, or have to sell everything to people in Europe. What do I do? What will I do??  

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RE: Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose in... - 1/25/2012 1:54 PM   
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Maybe I should be selling my jets now while I can still get fifty cents on the dollar, like some people in another thread think that's the going value?  If I wait until the FAA sets regulations, I might only get ten cents on the dollar, or have to sell everything to people in Europe. What do I do? What will I do??  
Create a new catagory at the NATs  Control Line (JET) Speed.
Sorry Mr. Bobby McGee ... OH OH OH or ya can hang'em from your bedroom ceiling, Like when you were a kid.   Don't Worry the AMA won't abanden you  ... they need every member they can get. Out of approx. 500,000 R/C's only 140,000 belong to the AMA.   If the FAA can't say whats in the NPRM until it's published. The AMA can tell what makes up their Special ... can't they?


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RE: Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose in... - 1/25/2012 1:58 PM   
H5487


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BobbyMcGee

Maybe I should be selling my jets now while I can still get fifty cents on the dollar, like some people in another thread think that's the going value?  If I wait until the FAA sets regulations, I might only get ten cents on the dollar, or have to sell everything to people in Europe. What do I do? What will I do??  

I've read elsewhere that model jets won't be negatively affected.

Harvey

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RE: Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose in... - 1/25/2012 1:59 PM   
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Start a club with a higher percentage of working prostates.

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RE: Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose in... - 1/25/2012 2:00 PM   
H5487


 

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OH OH OH or ya can hang'em from your bedroom ceiling, Like when you were a kid.


If you hang 'em from your ceiling fan blades and set the fan speed on max, they'll whiz around realistically!

Harvey

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RE: Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose in... - 1/25/2012 2:08 PM   
H5487


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: H5487


quote:

ORIGINAL: BobbyMcGee

Maybe I should be selling my jets now while I can still get fifty cents on the dollar, like some people in another thread think that's the going value?  If I wait until the FAA sets regulations, I might only get ten cents on the dollar, or have to sell everything to people in Europe. What do I do? What will I do??  

I've read elsewhere that model jets won't be negatively affected.

Harvey

NO, WAIT!!! I've heard that model jets will be specifically outlawed by the new rules. I'll give you $25 for yours right now (and I'll even go in halvsies on the postage.) I wouldn't pass up this offer if I were you!

Harvey

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RE: Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose in... - 1/25/2012 2:31 PM   
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Status: offline 		I heard they will require that they will require that they be certified UAV's.  If they don't meet their requirements they will confiscate.  I have a contact overseas who will buy.  I will hook you up for a 95% finders fee. 

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RE: Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose in... - 1/25/2012 2:58 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rcmichael

The Government is the problem, not the answer. Since we the people are the constitutional owners of the so called government, we are also the reason for our governments out of control approach to common sense! We NEED TO STOP THE BULL! We are responsible for electing all the worthless crap infesting our so called leadership! If you don't like what is being done to our hobby then vote wisely! If you want a socialist society then move to another country! That is the bottom line!


Along with all that blame we have to most certainly include people that only consider how any proposed or current laws might affect themselves. Face it, people do not stand for principles anymore...most only consider how certain actions will affect them... They never consider how the erosion of our liberties are occurring. The government attacks smaller interests...easy pickings...before you know it they eat the whole herd.

If I have heard it once, I’ve heard it a thousand times “Well, I don’t do that (whatever) so I am not worried about laws that restrict that”. The real problem is we don’t stick together as a people for basic principles anymore...we all are all special interests groups to the government and one by one...directly or indirectly we all will be reigned in for the complete control of everything we do... Sad but true... I am not happy when people are just passive and follow status quo but it makes me absolutely sick when people defend laws that take our liberties and freedom away little by little. one by one...



< Message edited by littlecrankshaf -- 1/26/2012 2:27 AM >

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RE: Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose in... - 1/25/2012 3:04 PM   
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RE: Do you think the FAA should be sticking its nose in... - 1/25/2012 3:05 PM   
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Just a little hummer to lighten up the Day the 2nd and 3rd to last are the most appropriate to this forum. Hope you enjoy.

 

Pilots: People who drive airplanes. 

Fighter Pilots: Cold, steely eyed, weapons systems managers who kill bad people and break things. However, they can also be very charming and personable. The average Fighter Pilot, despite sometimes having a swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy and caring. These feelings just don’t involve anyone else. 

Words of Wisdom From Aviators

  • Flying is a hard way to earn an easy living.
  • Both optimists and pessimists contribute to society. The optimist invents the airplane; the pessimist, the parachute.


If helicopters are so safe, how come there are no vintage helicopter fly-ins? 

Death is just nature's way of telling you to watch your airspeed. 

Real planes use only a single stick to fly. This is why bulldozers and helicopters­ (in that order) ­need two. 

There are only three things the copilot should ever say:


1. Nice landing, Sir. 
2. I'll buy the first round. 
3. I'll take the fat one. 

As a pilot only two bad things can happen to you and one of them will.


a. One day you will walk out to the aircraft knowing that it is your last flight. 
b. One day you will walk out to the aircraft not knowing that it is your last flight. 

There are Rules and there are Laws.

The Rules are made by men who think that they know better how to fly your airplane than you.

Laws (of Physics) were ordained by nature.

You can, and sometimes should, suspend the Rules, but you can never suspend the Laws. 

About Rules: 

a. The rules are a good place to hide if you don't have a better idea and the talent to execute it. 
b. If you deviate from a rule, it must be a flawless performance…(e.g., If you fly under a bridge, don't hit the bridge.) 

The ideal pilot is the perfect blend of discipline and aggressiveness. 

The medical profession is the natural enemy of the aviation profession. 

Ever notice that the only experts who decree that the age of the pilot is over are people who have never flown anything? Also, in spite of the intensity of their feelings that the pilot's day is over, I know of no expert who has volunteered to be a passenger in a non-piloted aircraft.

Before each flight, make sure that your bladder is empty and your fuel tanks are full.

He who demands everything that his aircraft can give him is a pilot; he that demands one iota more is a fool. 

There are certain aircraft sounds that can only be heard at night and over water.

The aircraft limits are only there in case there is another flight by that particular aircraft. If subsequent flights do not appear likely, there are no limits. 

Flying is a great way of life for men who want to feel like boys, but not for those who still are. 

"If the Wright brothers were alive today, Wilbur would have to fire Orville to reduce costs." President, DELTA Airlines. 

In the Alaskan bush I'd rather have a two-hour bladder and three hours of gas than vice versa. 

It's not that all airplane pilots are good-looking. It’s just that good-looking people seem more capable of flying airplanes. 

An old pilot is one who can remember when flying was dangerous and sex was safe. 

Airlines have really changed, now a flight attendant can get a pilot pregnant. 

I've flown in both pilot seats, can someone tell me why the other one is always occupied by an idiot? 

Son, you're going to have to make up your mind about growing up and becoming a pilot. You can't do both. 

There are only two types of aircraft­ - fighters and targets. 

The scientific theory I like best is that the rings of Saturn are composed entirely of lost airline baggage. 

You define a good flight by negatives: you didn't get hijacked, you didn't crash, you didn't throw up, you weren't late, and you weren't nauseated by the food. So you're grateful. 

They invented wheelbarrows to teach FAA inspectors to walk on their hind legs. 

The FAA Motto: We're not happy till you're not happy. 

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

 

_____________________________

Remember ... Every one of these Things we fly has a Termination date, The more expensive The bigger the tears.

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(in reply to littlecrankshaf)
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