RE: Why should I join ?  
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RE: Why should I join ? - 9/18/2003 2:58:37 AM   
jrjohn


 

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quote:

Now, as far as access to the policy, I agree. I have asked several people at the AMA, in the past, to have Carl do two things. One is to publish the policy in the member's only section on the AMA web site and the other is to have him write and publish a FAQ with all the questions that come up again and again on fourms such as this, about the coverage. It seems that doing so would allivate concerns for folks such as you and I.



J_R, I'm confused. earlier in a post you said that the AMA sent a copy of the insurance policy to the club and the landowner this spring, Now you say that you agree with me that the AMA need to publish the policy. I assume you called Carl and found out different? I have talked to Carl, his statements to me are what caused my concern.

J_R. lets lay down the guns and work tword a common goal. Myself and others what to know what our coverage is, we want proof in writing. We don't want specualtion. we don't want a "he said she said" when we have a claim. We don't like surprises. We need to know whats covered, what is limited, and what is excluded. We need the policy language. Ask anybody and they will tell you the main reason they joined the AMA is for the Insurance. Don't you agree that we deserve to know without any speculation what our coverage is? Please J_R you seem pretty tite with the AMA. lets get this done so we can put the subject to sleep because It won't go away.

What is so difficult about putting a copy of the policy on the members site? By not doing so they give the impression they are hiding something. (Maybe they are)??????

John

(in reply to J_R)
       Post #: 51

RE: Why should I join ? - 9/18/2003 4:29:02 AM   
J_R


 

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jrjohn

I wrote that not knowing you were in the insurance business. I have always used the term policy when discussing AMA coverage because people, in general, have an understanding of the general meaning. What the AMA sent was a 'Site Certificate' to the clubs and to the landlords of clubs that chose to spend a few dollars to get it. The certificate is not a policy, per se, it is issued by the AMA under the terms of the manuscript policy. That is the main difference. With the manuscript policy the AMA has the authority to write and send the certificates. If they were to actually write a policy, they would be forced to be an insurance company.

As I posted before, I have communicated with some on the EC about putting the policy up on the AMA web site. Now, your not going to like the next part, and my information is not absolutely current (six weeks old +/-). The AMA does NOT have a copy of the new policy from the new insurance company yet, or didn't the last time I checked. The policy is binding, but has not been reduced to writing because of the many unusual features in it. The bid came in and was accepted by the AMA, literally, at the last minute. The AMA was prepared to fund the captive they had put in place in case that became the only reasonable alternative. The EC had their backs to the wall.

As far as hiding anything, I really do not believe that is the case. With the exception of folks that do not understand that the personal coverage is secondary, if they have other insurance, I have never even heard of a claim being denied. Has anyone else?

They certainly have paid some claims that they could have rejected. Several EC members are proud of saying that no claim has ever been rejected for lack of an AMA number on or in a plane, for instance. I would not want to be the individual in a catastrophic accident that did not have a number in my plane, however.

It is an unfortuante fact that the AMA is viewed by a majority of it's membership as an insurance company. One can try to blame it on clubs because most clubs simply tell new members that they must be a member of the AMA for the insurance. At the same time, things that used to go to members, such as a rule book or membership manual are sent on request. It is an effort to save money, and it was apparent that no one reads the information they contained anyway. No one reads Model Aviation Magazine, where there is information to be had. The web site has an amazing amount of information on it, IF you know where to look. It is something less than user friendly. The search feature sucks. I digress. The AMA must find a way to communicate. (please forgive the generalizations)

As far as being "tight" with the EC, I have to laugh. Some of the lower officials have written to the EC labeling me as an AMA basher and in particular of "thumping" the EC. I have absolutely no offical standing. Anyone can write to them or call them and get an answer. Some EC members are more outgoing than others, to be sure. As I said, I have made suggestions, some have come to fruition, some have not.

Your posts here have been well done, and my guess is that they will be read by some on the EC and the subject discussed at some level.

JR

(in reply to jrjohn)
       Post #: 52

RE: Why should I join ? - 9/18/2003 4:46:32 AM   
jrjohn


 

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J_R I was told the same thing about not having a policy by Carl M. about 3 weeks ago.

Not having a copy of the policy our club had questions about what was covered. I gave Carl and example of a claim, I wanted to know if the situation was covered. His response to me was shocking to say the least. (maybe only shocking because I'm in the Insurance Business) Not happy with the wishy washy answer I asked for a copy of the contract, he told me it would cost 5 bucks. When I agreed to pay the 5 dollars he then told me they didn't have a policy yet.

Its for reasons like this that people are talking about getting their own insurance and leaving the AMA.

People don't mind spending money for something if they atleast know what it is and can realize the value.

whats this about having a number in an airplane??

I don't like surprises and I feel like I have one coming which is exactly why I want to see the policy language.

John

(in reply to J_R)
       Post #: 53

RE: Why should I join ? - 9/18/2003 4:55:32 AM   
nitro bear


 

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Yo!!! People!! You join because there is not one club that I know of that will let you fly at that field with out a valid AMA card. Should that happen and you fly into someone {godforbid} the clubs' field is at stake because we live in a sue your butt society. Call the $58 an ante or whatever but get over it already. If you think that's too much money...well you are in the wrong sport and need to think about doing something safer and cheaper like throwing a wiffle ball to your kid. This can be an economical sport if you have small planes, cheap equipment, etc. but for the majority of us it's a fair amont of money. Bottom line you pay to play. ANTE UP!!!!

_____________________________

Life is too short.....burn more nitro!!

(in reply to J_R)
       Post #: 54

RE: Why should I join ? - 9/18/2003 5:22:40 AM   
mongo


 

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go to the non private field in whichata falls texas.
they do not evven allow you to ask if someone is a ama member.

and get real up tight when anyone even mentions the national org.

that is just the most blatant one i can think of that does not require ama to fly.

(in reply to nitro bear)
       Post #: 55

RE: Why should I join ? - 9/18/2003 5:30:41 AM   
jrjohn


 

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Nitro, I don't think you understand what we are talking about. We want to know what this policy covers. Can you answer spacific questions about the insurance? If so I have some questions for you. Please no guessing, I only want to know facts. Oh hell, if you don't know, go ahead and guess!

I'll give you an example..... A member of our club (Tommy Klutz) comes out to the field and flys his plane, he didn't pay his AMA dues and nobody notices. During Mr Klutzes flight he runs into somebody and hurts them. Sometime later our club and landowner are named in a lawsuit. Will the AMA defend us and pay up to the policy limit any judgment against us?

John

(in reply to J_R)
       Post #: 56

RE: Why should I join ? - 9/18/2003 5:30:55 AM   
David Cutler



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quote:

they do not evven allow you to ask if someone is a ama member
quote:



Who's the 'they'?

And who gave 'them' the right to tell you what to ask?

I have to say if somebody told me what to say I would purposely say the very thing they asked me not to.

Especially as you say it's a 'non-private' field.

sheesh!

-David C.

(in reply to mongo)
       Post #: 57

RE: Why should I join ? - 9/18/2003 6:06:13 AM   
mongo


 

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it is a city owned field, so the they is the city of whichata falls.

and it has something to do with a public access lawsuit that occured some years ago.

(in reply to David Cutler)
       Post #: 58

RE: Why should I join ? - 9/18/2003 7:05:06 AM   
J_R


 

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John

A lot of this is actually covered in the club recharter kit that your club received to renew. You can take a look at the information on the AMA web page. http://www.modelaircraft.org/templates/ama/PDF-files/2003clubkit.pdf

You have to wade through some irrelevant stuff, but most of what you ask is there.

JR

(in reply to jrjohn)
       Post #: 59

RE: Why should I join ? - 9/18/2003 7:14:44 AM   
Alec



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All the bantering about wether or not people want to know what the policy says aside, the question remains, Why should I join?

seems like a fairly simple question, why is the answer so inflammatory?

Almost every form of recreation that people enjoy requires that we "pay to play" and the AMA is the our R/C worlds standard and has been for some time. Support the hobby and have fun.

(in reply to J_R)
       Post #: 60

RE: Why should I join ? - 9/18/2003 7:35:39 AM   
J_R


 

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Alec

The discussion is contentious because for years clubs have told new members nothing more than that an AMA membership is required for membership in the club for insurance purposes. People come in here with preconcieved ideas of what the AMA is and is not. There are not a lot of thinking people that, having been told that the AMA is only insurance, are not going to question why. IF the AMA were only an insurance company, they would have a point. Getting the word out that there is more to the AMA than insurance is a big part of what this forum is used for. In this case, the thread has turned to questions of what, exactly is, and is not, covered.

Modelers are not, by their basic nature, real inclined to do anything when the answer to the question of why is "just because". I believe that the only stupid question is one that is not asked.

If you read the older threads in this forum, you will find the same questions asked, again and again.

JR

(in reply to Alec)
       Post #: 61

RE: Why should I join ? - 9/18/2003 7:56:10 AM   
BasinBum



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JR,
I understand that the AMA is not an Insurance company but I got tired of typing "the AMA's Insurance Company" so I just abrieveated for the sake of asking a question.

JRJohn,
Your reply about the State Farm example is very interesting and does make one wonder about the need for the AMA' coverage. I'll review my policy, but keep the secondary coverage as well.

lkaras1,
The answer to the question posed by the thread starter is: To support the hobby. Untill another association starts to represent me as a lobbying group and on top of that sends me a decent magazine, provides extended coverage on my existing insurance and promotes the overall activity I'll support the AMA.

I belong to The San Fernando Valley Flyers but I've never been to a meeting. They represent my interests to the city that owns the field where I fly. The more members they have the more pull I feel they will have with the city. Same thing goes for the AMA.

(in reply to J_R)
       Post #: 62

RE: Why should I join ? - 9/18/2003 1:20:24 PM   
P-51B



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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Cutler

All true, although I would personally object to the AMA being compared with the NRA.

Planes are for pleasure, guns are for killing people.

I hope people enjoy flying much more than killing people.

They don't compare.

-David C.


I personnaly like the comparison, it was very good.

R/C aircraft have killed people, cars have killed people, hammers have killed people, knives have killed people.

Guns are for self protection, and providing food for many. Remember, a gun doesn't just go wandering on it's own.

_____________________________

In order to think "outside the box", one must first accept there IS a box.

(in reply to David Cutler)
       Post #: 63

RE: Why should I join ? - 9/18/2003 3:06:01 PM   
David Cutler



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quote: