RE: Why should I join ?  
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RE: Why should I join ? - 9/19/2003 5:00:33 PM   
MustangFan



Posts: 586
Joined: 3/25/2003
From: Canton, MI, USA
Status: offline 		David

I'm just not happy with the AMA not be accountable to it's people.
This forum is just one of many that have pointed to problems within the organization.

We the members need an organization that can and will help us.
As one example ... Flying sites are difficult to secure and retain. How much help has the AMA been in "being there" for us. Our area has lost 2 sites and about to lose another ... no contact from the AMA. Is it that the clubs don't call them because they havn't been approachable or any help in the past.

I know that each club has and will be criticized for "IT'S" programs failing.
If we are going to be blamed without help ... then where or what is the AMA's responsibility.

Too many open issues, and it makes people nervous.
They have a magazine, and they have the ability to communicate more.
Tell me then, just why would anyone need to spend $5.00 to get a copy of the insurance policy, when they could publish it in "OUR" magaine? Just stonewalling? Makes me nervous!

And keep in mind ... it's not $58 dollars .... it's $10,000,000 of the peoples money.

< Message edited by MustangFan -- 9/19/2003 12:14:20 PM >

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(in reply to P-51B)
       Post #: 101

RE: Why should I join ? - 9/19/2003 5:58:06 PM   
J_R


 

Posts: 4446
Joined: 1/4/2002
From: Corona, CA,
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jrjohn
<SNIP>
Yes they tell you on the web page, but what good is it to know the policy limit if you don't know the policy conditions, definitions and exclusions? 2.5 million for what????

Mustang, you are totally correct, the AMA needs to get it's act together and start helping we the members. If we go elsewhere, they have nothing but I nice expensive building with a pond out front. The AMA is definatly leaving the door open, my guess is that somebody will walk through sometime in the future

John


John

There is a list of exclusions. It is called the Safety Code. Look at what it says immediately below the title of Safety Code.

You keep beating the same horse. Why not call Carl back and see if you can talk to him rather than debate him. I know for a fact that he has the type of personality that can cause him to get his back up and be less than helpful when you take what he perceives as an adversarial approach. Your a salesman, sell him on the fact that you need help. It's not too amazing that people get their back up when the get challenged. It happens all the time. Carl is no exception. When he knows he is right, and you insist that you are, such as in the case of being entitled to a copy of the policy, your not going to get very far.

If you have blown up the bridge with Carl, you still have recourse. Carl is an employee of HQ. There is an Executive Director. The Executive Director is responsible to the EC, and you have a VP. You have other ways to go at this. Now, if you are demanding a copy of a policy that is not yet in the possession of the AMA, that is an unreasonable request. For the other readers who are not as familiar with the process, I ask if the farmer you described in another post was bound by his policy before you delivered it to him? If the $5 for a policy is THE major issue, I have seen situations where a VP spent a few dollars of his District Budget to keep a member happy. I can't promise it, but I know it has happened. If you contact these people with a adversarial approach, I suspect you are not going to get very far. That's human nature and you, as a salesman, should know better.

You seem to have lost sight of a rather simple fact. You refer to we and them. As long as you are an AMA member, you, and we, is them. If, on the other hand, your only purpose is to continue to rant and not to resolve the issue, say so and I will back off.

JR

(in reply to jrjohn)
       Post #: 102

RE: Why should I join ? - 9/19/2003 6:16:59 PM   
mongo


 

Posts: 1224
Joined: 12/5/2001
From: Midland, Republic of TEXAS, TX, USA
Status: offline 		hossfly.

as small as this organisation is, the projections in a budget should not be that far off, they have the historical data to make estimating rather accurate, if they choose to use it. one of my theater budgets is just over 15 mil a year, and we are never off more than a few percent on the expected items. unexpected things that crop up are just that, and are covered by contingency funds.
the real joy in a budget is, that it sorta gives a read on just what the board, ec, feels is important and where they want to head.
a budget will also list every department's anticipated saleries and such, so maby some of this speculation about the thousands of dollars handed out to employees each month can be put to rest.

and they could even budget in the cost of a few hundred policy copys for the few members that might actually want them.

< Message edited by mongo -- 9/19/2003 6:18:01 PM >

(in reply to J_R)
       Post #: 103

RE: Why should I join ? - 9/19/2003 6:31:32 PM   
MustangFan



Posts: 586
Joined: 3/25/2003
From: Canton, MI, USA
Status: offline 		If Carl or anyone stonewalls to "their customer" then THEY have a problem.

If Carl or anyone can't handle a situation with grace and dignity then THEY have a problem , put someone else on the phone who has better bedside manners ( the doctors must work on this). This is just good business practice.

Is it that they don't want to answer questions that makes them "back up"?
Is it that they don't have good answers that makes them "back up"?

I wouldn't condone poor phone manners if it was my business.
I had a boss dismissed from the company for not treating and being truthful with customers. This company went on to be THE industry leader in their field.

Lets not make excuses for them ... the people still deserve answers and respect.

Maybe jrjohn needs to continue to rant until we get changes in their policies or answers.
If the members "perceive" problems that are not valid, then the AMA is not communicating effectively. Remember they have a magazine that could be used to educate us if they so wish. If they monitor these forums, they know the issues. This and ANY issue could be handled delecately if they choose.

Remember $10 million dollars ! That should buy 'some' diplomacy.

Why Should I Join ?

< Message edited by MustangFan -- 9/19/2003 1:34:25 PM >

_____________________________

Thats Just My Opinion - I Could Be Wrong ( Dennis Miller )

(in reply to P-51B)
       Post #: 104

RE: Why should I join ? - 9/19/2003 6:32:32 PM   
J_R


 

Posts: 4446
Joined: 1/4/2002
From: Corona, CA,
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MustangFan

David

I'm just not happy with the AMA not be accountable to it's people.
This forum is just one of many that have pointed to problems within the organization.

We the members need an organization that can and will help us.
As one example ... Flying sites are difficult to secure and retain. How much help has the AMA been in "being there" for us. Our area has lost 2 sites and about to lose another ... no contact from the AMA. Is it that the clubs don't call them because they havn't been approachable or any help in the past.

I know that each club has and will be criticized for "IT'S" programs failing.
If we are going to be blamed without help ... then where or what is the AMA's responsibility.

Too many open issues, and it makes people nervous.
They have a magazine, and they have the ability to communicate more.
Tell me then, just why would anyone need to spend $5.00 to get a copy of the insurance policy, when they could publish it in "OUR" magaine? Just stonewalling? Makes me nervous!

And keep in mind ... it's not $58 dollars .... it's $10,000,000 of the peoples money.


Your post is full of incorrect and mis information. The AMA has several people whose primary responsibility is helping in obtaining and keeping flying sites. None of them are unapproachable. Model Avation runs a column each and every month on the subject.

Now, if you expect the AMA to know when your club's field comes under attack, or you wait until after the club leaders have made an ineffective defense of the field, then there is not much the AMA can do. They don't have a crystal ball, either.

When a field is attacked, the FIRST thing to do is notify the AMA. Your VP, Jay Mealy, Wes De Cou in the west, or Joe Beshar in the east, and Carl Moroney. There is a thread in the Clubhouse that states much the same thing you said, but, they had not yet lost thier field. Read the thread and then PM or e-mail the AMA member that started it to see just what can happen when you contact the AMA early. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=1090888&tostyle=tm

The AMA can not save every field, but, they do save many and it is the responsibility of the club to contact them early enough to provide effective help.

Quit looking for your picture in MA and read the information that is in there, or on the web site.

(in reply to MustangFan)
       Post #: 105

RE: Why should I join ? - 9/19/2003 6:55:50 PM   
MustangFan



Posts: 586
Joined: 3/25/2003
From: Canton, MI, USA
Status: offline 		J_R

Thanks for attacking me personally!

I can tell you that most clubs don't think the AMA can or will help them attain a field.

These fields are mostly disapearing because of land development not club problems.
As long as the members are always attacked for not doing "their" job, the AMA continues to look like an organization that isn't in tune. You were speculating that we did something wrong, no. We have great members that do all they can like so many other clubs. What we need is some activity from the AMA not published guidelines. Most clubs have people that are good business people that can handle most of the situations that come along better that the AMA even tries. We are not dumb or un-educated.

We neither expect or get help when our fields are under attack.

I don't give a rats belly button if my picture gets in the MA. If it did I would question my own standards.

I'm done now ... you won't have to put up with me anymore ( I know ... thank heavens)
I don't know who you are or what your affiliation is with the AMA, but if this attack is normal, I can see why the organization has a creditibility problem.

Open forums should not be a place for personal attacks.

I just stated the attitude I have heard concerning the AMA ... "The're a Joke"
Do with this as you wish. But I tried my best to give my opinion without attacking others.

Thanks Again for the Personal Attack!
Gone from this forum!

_____________________________

Thats Just My Opinion - I Could Be Wrong ( Dennis Miller )

(in reply to P-51B)
       Post #: 106

RE: Why should I join ? - 9/19/2003 7:05:18 PM   
J_R


 

Posts: 4446
Joined: 1/4/2002
From: Corona, CA,
Status: offline 		What are the famous last words of members who have just lost a field instead of calling the experts?

quote:

"These fields are mostly disapearing because of land development not club problems.
As long as the members are always attacked for not doing "their" job, the AMA continues to look like an organization that isn't in tune. You were speculating that we did something wrong, no. We have great members that do all they can like so many other clubs. What we need is some activity from the AMA not published guidelines. Most clubs have people that are good business people that can handle most of the situations that come along better that the AMA even tries. We are not dumb or un-educated.

We neither expect or get help when our fields are under attack."



quote:

I don't know who you are or what your affiliation is with the AMA, but if this attack is normal, I can see why the organization has a creditibility problem.


That comment would appear to show that you did not even bother to read the thread you are posting in. Rant on.

JR

(in reply to MustangFan)
       Post #: 107

RE: Why should I join ? - 9/19/2003 8:04:00 PM   
David Cutler



Posts: 2163
Joined: 9/13/2002
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Hi John,

I must be dumb or something. This is a copy/paste of the bottom of the insurance summary on their site:-

"Claim forms and step-by-step filing procedures are available from AMA HQ. Call (765) 287-1256, ext. 252. All claims need to be reported immediately. This information is merely a brief summary. Complete details of coverage(s), reporting periods, and exceptions are contained in master policies on file at AMA HQ, available for $5.00 per policy for handling and postage."

This is normal procedure for a company.

They also have documents showing claims histories, both loss and damage, and a full analysis of the 2000 financial insurance summary. This is more than most companies supply.

- And a 23 page members manual.

Also, there are fully audited sets of accounts that, at a glance, supply more than is required by law.

You say I might be right about the 2.5 million and that that underscores your point. How did I get that fact and you didn't? Couldn't it be that the only point it underscores is that you haven't looked for the policy details?

I'm sorry, I am still confused.

-David C.

(in reply to jrjohn)
       Post #: 108

RE: Why should I join ? - 9/19/2003 9:34:01 PM   
Jim Thomerson



Posts: 2825
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		The AMA magazine, Model Aviation, isn't too bad, either.

Jim

(in reply to lkaras1)
       Post #: 109

RE: Why should I join ? - 9/19/2003 9:45:58 PM   
SAPropbuster



Posts: 206
Joined: 3/7/2002
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline 		There is quite a contoversy about that... I seem to side with you, Jim. It is a good magazine! And well worth about half of the $58.oo a year...



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       Post #: 110

RE: Why should I join ? - 9/20/2003 5:03:36 AM   
jrjohn


 

Posts: 2279
Joined: 1/9/2002
From: stevens point, WI, USA
Status: offline
quote:

You say I might be right about the 2.5 million and that that underscores your point. How did I get that fact and you didn't? Couldn't it be that the only point it underscores is that you haven't looked for the policy details


David, I understand your confusion completely. You don't want to understand, thus you can't. If you read my postings you'll find I have never once said I wanted to know the policy limit, I have no concern for that at this time, I know its a high limit. I don't care if its 1 million 2 million 2.5 or 50 million. If the limit was 500 thousand I'd be perfectly happy with the limit. I will say this for the last time, I want to know the difinitions, conditions, and exclusions of the policy. You see david, it doesn't matter if you have 100 million dollars of insurance if the conditions of the policy are something contrary to what you need

. I'll make this easier to understand with an example. Lets say for expample the AMA gives 500 million dollars worth of insurance however there is an exclusion in the policy that says the named insured is not covered if the accident is a result of a certain act. Now your club has a claim that falls under that exclusion. This is a test now david, If the claim is denied, how much coverage did you actually have to cover this claim? I'ts multiple choice

500 million
2.5 million
2 million
Zero

(in reply to SAPropbuster)
       Post #: 111

RE: Why should I join ? - 9/21/2003 12:58:49 AM   
David Cutler



Posts: 2163
Joined: 9/13/2002
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Status: offline 		You missed my point, and in doing so were rather insulting in the process.

No, my problem is you seemed to know a lot about the subject of AMA arranged insurance, and therefore I was taking note of your comments, as they might benefit me. I'm sure others were too.

However, you keep saying that important details weren't available, when I could see the very things you were asking for summarized in their website, and in excruciating detail in their policy copy. They were spelling out as much detail as could be needed before any reasonable person made the decision to spend $58.

That's what was, and still is confusing me, but please don't come back making out I'm a moron again. It doesn't sit well in this great forum.

Thanks.

David C.

< Message edited by David Cutler -- 9/20/2003 7:59:39 PM >

(in reply to jrjohn)
       Post #: 112

RE: Why should I join ? - 9/21/2003 3:50:38 AM   
L.R.Rip


 

Posts: 26
Joined: 8/22/2003
From: Titusville, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Here is what the AMA is to me. They lobby for our frequency's, they provide a set of universal rules for all to follow. And it is kinda like a universal club membership. I can fly at a lot of fields out of my area by showing my card.
The set of rules are simple to me and if you are in violation of them you are at fault. And they are not going to pay. If they they offered a policy that would pay for negligence that would be very pricey.
The magazine also pulls us together for fellowship and fun by the list of events in the last few pages which I think is the best part of the publication.


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<