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BVM F-86 SABRE TURBINE MODIFICATIONS? - 1/22/2012 9:08 PM   
Jamie C



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Status: offline 		I was visiting a friends house just before Christmas and he happened to mention that he had a very nice BVM Sabre tucked away upstairs that he was thinking of selling on as he was unlikely to get around to finishing it off, it as originally built for ducted fan and he was planning to fit the BVM EVF system. I have a weakness for BVM models so i just had to have a look, sure enough it was love at first sight! i had to have it!! It really is beautifully finished and far exceeds my scale building skills! i love the Flamboyant colour scheme which is that of the Argentinian Aerobatic team the 'Cruz del Sur' of the early 60's.

I came away with it and quite chuffed i am too! no doubt there were/are many BVM Sabres of this vintage that have been converted to turbine and i am hoping that some of you RCU'ers may be able to give me some pointers on any areas that may need particular attention and any experiences you have had with a similar conversion, pictures would be very useful!

I will be replacing the retracts with the 'Air Blue' system and i have emailed BVM asking how much of the Sabre ARF undercarraige set is compatible with the older Sabre's and also any other bits i may need, it will be fitted with a Jetcat P60 in the BVM bypass with the BVM thrust tube. Any info you have will be most welcome as i am wanting to do a good job of the conversion . . . . first time around.

Cheers

Jamie

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RE: BVM F-86 SABRE TURBINE MODIFICATIONS? - 1/22/2012 9:43 PM   
Ali



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RE: BVM F-86 SABRE TURBINE MODIFICATIONS? - 1/22/2012 9:47 PM   
David Gladwin



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Status: offline 		Jamie, I have done exactly this with my Sabre which flies in RAF camouflage with 92 sqn markings. I used the BVM conversion kit which made things very straightforward. Mine is powered by a PST 600 which is perfect for scale performance.

I also converted the landing gear to pneumatic operation dispensing with the fiddly servo set up.

My recommendation is that on engine shutdown you user a blower in the intake to assist engine cooling other wise the duct gets very hot and will damage the Velcro duct hatch retaining straps.

Regards,

David.

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RE: BVM F-86 SABRE TURBINE MODIFICATIONS? - 1/22/2012 11:20 PM   
Andrew Bird



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Status: offline 		Wow - that's a bit of a find. Nicely done!

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RE: BVM F-86 SABRE TURBINE MODIFICATIONS? - 1/22/2012 11:38 PM   
schroedm



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Status: offline 		Goddammit!! Now I want a Sabre in that scheme!! Another one for the list!!

What have they used to get the chrome finish?? Flite metal or similar

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RE: BVM F-86 SABRE TURBINE MODIFICATIONS? - 1/23/2012 1:47 AM   
gregg f



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RE: BVM F-86 SABRE TURBINE MODIFICATIONS? - 1/23/2012 2:03 AM   
Wayne22



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Status: offline 		BVM used to make a turbine converion kit of the little Sabre....don't know if it is still available.....
If you can get ahold of Tam, he makes a much better pipe... We replaced the original BVM pipe with Tams, and there is a noticeable performance gain from the PST 600 and it is quieter too! The interior gets crowded very quickly with the bypass in place, so some advance planning of equipment placement is required. Really nice flying jet, though, and that one you got will look spectacular in the air!!



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RE: BVM F-86 SABRE TURBINE MODIFICATIONS? - 1/23/2012 2:23 AM   
Greg Wright


 

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Status: offline 		Jaimie, BVM does still have everything you would need to do the conversion. If you really want to go all out i would also get all the new carbon fibre main wing formers to make it into a bolt on wing version.

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RE: BVM F-86 SABRE TURBINE MODIFICATIONS? - 1/23/2012 6:07 AM   
Boomerang1



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Status: offline 		Hi Jamie, I'm currently working on one of these as well. It was originally ICDF powered, then the owner
started the turbine conversion (for a Wren 54 mk2) but lost interest & sold it on to me. I have a smaller
jet powered by an original Wren 44 & this flys like a missile so I fitted another Wren 44 to the Sabre.

Despite attempting to make it as light as possible (removed air system for doors, brakes, airbrakes, heavy
wheels, struts, bypass, full cockpit kit etc) it did fly but struggled to take off & had to be flown at full throttle
all the time. I'm now fitting a P-60 like you.

Mine has the original, mechanical BVM retracts.

The very first thing I changed on mine was the elevator linkage setup. The original was VERY stiff, not enough
travel as per the instructions for the turbine conversion, had quite a lot of free play despite the stiffness.

I replaced it with 2 servos & carbon pushrods but this meant leaving the bypass out. The inside of mine now looks
very similar to yours with conventional rails to mount the turbine. I do have the original bypass, engine mounting
system & a spare inlet duct if you want it, I'll never use it.

BTW, I wished mine was as pretty as yours, mine came in primer! - John.

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RE: BVM F-86 SABRE TURBINE MODIFICATIONS? - 1/23/2012 12:52 PM   
Jamie C



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Status: offline 		Cheers guys! this is all really good stuff and it all helps. Mine is also fitted with the original mechanical retracts which i will be replacing with the 'Air blue' as i believe that they are drop in replacements? I am glad that the elevator controls have been mentioned as this is an area i have already been looking into with a view to putting in something more substantial, the rudder is another area that needs to be looked at. The ailerons and flaps are fine, the drop tanks can also be released by RC and i am assuming it is an early BVM mechanism? i remember seeing Denny Rowlands F-86 at Topgun UK 91/92? that had tank release and i think this kit is of the same vintage, i think it may be worth getting a spare set.

It has been finished in Chrome Solartrim . . . . very skillfully! hat off to the guy who built it, i would love to have such skills. I had the turbine and a other equipment roughly placed to see about the room available and as has already been mentioned . . . . space is tight!

One other question i have is how effective are the speed brakes? is there any pitching tendancy when deployed?

I was keen to find out some of the details of the full size aircraft and team as it was not one i had heard of before. The 'Cruz del Sur' or 'Southren Cross' were named after the constellation of the same name. Originally the team started with 6 aircraft and first flew a display in 1962, the aircraft were named after a star in the constellation and C-113 was named 'Gamma' i am hoping to have some decals made to reflect the aircrafts name as per the full size.





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RE: BVM F-86 SABRE TURBINE MODIFICATIONS? - 1/23/2012 1:11 PM   
Geoff White



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Status: offline 		I have seen this model in person and it is beautifull. I also have no idea who covered it but whoever it was, had more skill in their little finger than I have in my whole body

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RE: BVM F-86 SABRE TURBINE MODIFICATIONS? - 1/23/2012 1:50 PM   
Duncan



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Status: offline 		and that's a lot of body

I agree with you though, it looks beautiful. I'm very very jealous and now wondering how poor my 60" sabre is gong to look when it's finished compared to yours lol

Duncan

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RE: BVM F-86 SABRE TURBINE MODIFICATIONS? - 1/23/2012 9:56 PM   
iiievolution



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Status: offline 		Hello Jamie

I also have one that I have been working on for a long long time with the BVM conversion. I notice that in your first post, picture number 3, the one looking back in the fuselage, your model doesn't have the factory fitted carbon reinforcing in the rear area of the fuselage. This means that it is a very early one. Speaking to David Schulman at Jetpower a few years ago, when he was still with BVM, he told me to make sure that the model had the carbon reinforcement and if it didn't he sed that I would have to add carbon to that area. Luckily mine with the carbon from the factory mould. I could take a picture for you if it will help with this.

Paul

P.S. Denny Rowlands lives in Cyprus now and flys jets with us at Ladies Mile Beech.

< Message edited by iiievolution -- 1/24/2012 10:56 AM >

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RE: BVM F-86 SABRE TURBINE MODIFICATIONS? - 1/23/2012 11:35 PM   
Jamie C



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Status: offline 		Hi Paul,

Thanks for the info, very helpful and yes i would love pictures of those area's. What has been mentioned is just what i was looking for, all these posts contain lots of useful information for the conversion and have mentioned things i have started looking in to as a result. You are right, it is an early kit and it has not flown and was built for DF but it is without doubt a viable subject for turbine conversion . . . it is far too pretty to leave hanging up!

The mods are all easily achievable as there is plenty of access to the rear.

Denny's Sabre was a Skyblazers scheme i seem to remember, i think he had an Aggressor or a Viper? aswell in a USAF scheme at the same event. I expect that the JMA Oracle Dick Spreadbury has photos stashed somewhere.

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RE: BVM F-86 SABRE TURBINE MODIFICATIONS? - 1/24/2012 1:06 AM   
Jamie C



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Status: offline 		One question i have is with the regard to the chrome solartrim and how it will effect radio range. I was talking earlier tonight with a friend about this very subject, i will be using 2.4GHz equipment and although the Chrome solartrim is not entirely metallic like flite metal it does have a large metallic component and will no doubt have some effect. Has anyone encountered any problems with this? and if so how have you got around it?

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RE: BVM F-86 SABRE TURBINE MODIFICATIONS? - 1/24/2012 5:11 AM   
Wayne22



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Status: offline 		There is so much metal in these birds anyways - engine, wires, pipe, retracts...I'm not sure that the contribution from the covering would have much of an effect...However, a thorough ground range check would definitely be in order.

...

Here is what your spacious insides will look like when you have installed all the expensive bits... (It is well worth it!!)

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RE: BVM F-86 SABRE TURBINE MODIFICATIONS? - 1/24/2012 7:30 AM   
Boomerang1



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Status: offline 		I mounted my reciever on top of the inlet duct & the reciever antennas
'look' through the clear canopy.

Not sure if it's necessary but it sure can't hurt. Futaba 2.4. - John.

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RE: BVM F-86 SABRE TURBINE MODIFICATIONS? - 1/24/2012 8:40 AM   
HarryC


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jamie C

One question i have is with the regard to the chrome solartrim and how it will effect radio range. I was talking earlier tonight with a friend about this very subject, i will be using 2.4GHz equipment and although the Chrome solartrim is not entirely metallic like flite metal it does have a large metallic component and will no doubt have some effect. Has anyone encountered any problems with this? and if so how have you got around it?


Jamie, my F-104 fuselage is completely covered in chrome solartrim, I just made tiny holes to let the 2.4 aerials get outside and had no problems. My F-86 is completely coated in BVMs metal-kote which is aluminium particles and I have one aerial outside, one inside but under the regular paint at the nose and again, no problems.

Gorgeous F-86 btw, look forward to seeing it fly at Wrtn

Harry

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RE: BVM F-86 SABRE TURBINE MODIFICATIONS? - 1/24/2012 6:05 PM   
iiievolution



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Status: offline 		Hello

Here are the pictures as promised. You can see in one of the pictures that the carbon extends to about 27-28cm forward from the end of the fuselage.

Paul

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RE: BVM F-86 SABRE TURBINE MODIFICATIONS? - 1/24/2012 7:25 PM   
ron Sweeney


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Jamie, I have converted this kit to turbine,(Wren 70) I moulded my own 2.2ltr fuel tank in a horse shoe shape and also an extended inlet duct. I use a Wren thrust tube but no by-pass system. Absolutely no heat problems or cooling difficulties. Dave Gladwin influenced me to modify the elevator servo couplings and I used piano wire pushrods with external couplings. Its a great flyer but with my flying skills and a grass runway the flexplate system is a bit vulnerable and difficult to repair. I am interested in a pnuematic conversion but have not found a system which is shallow enough to fit the slender wing section. Dave??? Mine is finished in the red/white Boeng chase plane finish. I could tax my son's patience and ask him to post some video if you think it will be of benefit. Ron.
p.s. I have still got the Alan Brown F100 fuselage if you want it.

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RE: BVM F-86 SABRE TURBINE MODIFICATIONS? - 1/24/2012 9:53 PM   
Jamie C



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Status: offline 		Paul,

Great pics! clearly shows exactly what i need to do. In the second pic i see the elevator linkage set up, are you sticking with this or are you going to mod it?

Ron,

Yes i would love to have the F-100 fuselage, cheers! would be grateful if you could send/post pics of your model/install and mods if at all possible?

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RE: BVM F-86 SABRE TURBINE MODIFICATIONS? - 1/24/2012 10:01 PM   
Jamie C



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quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jamie C

One question i have is with the regard to the chrome solartrim and how it will effect radio range. I was talking earlier tonight with a friend about this very subject, i will be using 2.4GHz equipment and although the Chrome solartrim is not entirely metallic like flite metal it does have a large metallic component and will no doubt have some effect. Has anyone encountered any problems with this? and if so how have you got around it?


Jamie, my F-104 fuselage is completely covered in chrome solartrim, I just made tiny holes to let the 2.4 aerials get outside and had no problems. My F-86 is completely coated in BVMs metal-kote which is aluminium particles and I have one aerial outside, one inside but under the regular paint at the nose and again, no problems.

Gorgeous F-86 btw, look forward to seeing it fly at Wrtn

Harry


Cheers for the Info Harry, will carry out a few experiments to see what overall effect it has. I would like to have this is the air for Topgun but i think that is very unlikely,so a test flight before the flying season ends is more realistic.

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RE: BVM F-86 SABRE TURBINE MODIFICATIONS? - 1/24/2012 10:37 PM   
DAN AVILLA



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Status: offline 		My F100 and P80 are both covered with the same material. The antennas are inside of the model with not problems. I have been using the same material for over 8 years. As for the speed brakes they work great. I had a BVM f86 many years back and enjoyed how you had to go to 3/4 throttle with them out and flaps and gear down. I was using a RAM 500 at the time. The only problem with the model is on take off with a hot day it wants to snap. Nothing violent but be ready. Maybe my ram did not have enough power when loaded with fuel and tanks. Good Luck Dan Avilla BVM Rep

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RE: BVM F-86 SABRE TURBINE MODIFICATIONS? - 1/24/2012 11:22 PM   
agent adds


 

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Status: offline 		looks a very nice model indeed -well done

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RE: BVM F-86 SABRE TURBINE MODIFICATIONS? - 1/24/2012 11:54 PM   
Jamie C



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quote:

ORIGINAL: DAN AVILLA

My F100 and P80 are both covered with the same material. The antennas are inside of the model with not problems. I have been using the same material for over 8 years. As for the speed brakes they work great. I had a BVM f86 many years back and enjoyed how you had to go to 3/4 throttle with them out and flaps and gear down. I was using a RAM 500 at the time. The only problem with the model is on take off with a hot day it wants to snap. Nothing violent but be ready. Maybe my ram did not have enough power when loaded with fuel and tanks. Good Luck Dan Avilla BVM Rep


Dan,

From what you have said about the power characteristics with the brakes out and gear and flaps down, would you say that the speed brakes are not essential for landing? also did you notice a siginificant drop in performance with the wing tanks on?

Over here we are quite short on hot days . . . unfortunately! so the P60 should be just right for this model was the RAM 10/11 pounds of thrust?

Adds,

Cheers

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