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RE: Anyone recognize this midget mustang? - 3/31/2012 2:29 AM   
All Day Dan


 

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From: MANHATTAN BEACH, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Steve, that is some mold you sent me. I was expecting a tracing of the wing saddle that I could get scanned at Kinkos and bring it into AutoCAD. I can do that with the mold but I would be introducing inaccuracies since it is a secondary source. A better method would be if you used some double sided tape adhered to the inside of the fuselage by the wing saddle and attach some stiff poster board to it. Trace the saddle and chord line from the stab on to it and send it to me. It would be the most accurate way. As I said, I can still use the mold. Do you want to try the tracing? If not, I’ll proceed with the mold. Dan.

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RE: Anyone recognize this midget mustang? - 4/1/2012 4:16 PM   
cowmags


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Dan, I want this to be as little burden on you as possible. I'll try to get another tracing and put the lines on it this time. I'm not sure how I'm gonna get the lines accurate but I'll give it a try. Is there a way to transfer the lines on the mold to the tracings I've sent you already? Just looking for options. I can't seem to keep all of my planes in flying condition. Every time I take two planes to the field one comes back in need of repairs. I think I need more stick time! I nosed over a 100 cc Extra last week on a dirt field, needless to say that engine is on it's way to 3W Modellbau for overhaul. Ouch! Well, it's Sunday morning and windy as usual, guess I'll go break something at the field. Steve

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RE: Anyone recognize this midget mustang? - 4/2/2012 5:08 AM   
All Day Dan


 

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Status: offline 		Steve, thanks for the concern about my time. I have been retired for 10 years now and can say with all honesty that I have not done a single thing of importance during all that time. That is unless you consider playing important. I have looked closely at the mold. There are two levels of the surface that goes against the saddle. Which one is the more accurate? I'll send you a pattern that you can try out in a few days. If it looks good we'll proceed with that. Hold off on that tracing until we see how this one fits. Dan .

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RE: Anyone recognize this midget mustang? - 4/2/2012 6:25 AM   
cowmags


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Dan, I believe the saddle has been filled somehow to match the airfoil just as you described in an earlier post. The buildup would probably be the best match to the previous wing this plane had so I guess the deeper part is the original saddle profile and the shallower part would be the filler to match the wing. Does that sound logical to you? Thanks, Steve

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RE: Anyone recognize this midget mustang? - 4/2/2012 5:11 PM   
All Day Dan


 

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Status: offline 		Steve, I'll go with the "filled" airfoil since it is the one that was used. It looks like it is about 1/16 to 3/32 inch thick 5 inches behind the leading edge. Check it out. Dan.

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RE: Anyone recognize this midget mustang? - 4/3/2012 1:52 AM   
cowmags


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Dan, I just checked the saddle and it seems the filler is about 1/16" thick starting at 6" from the leading edge to the end. I was wondering how you're going to figure the airfoil where the two wing halves meet in the center or is the taper of the trailing edge going to stop at the wing root? Also how do you feel about 2 to 3 degrees of washout at the tips? Or will it even be necessary? We're getting close, I'm getting pumped up again! Steve

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RE: Anyone recognize this midget mustang? - 4/3/2012 2:46 AM   
All Day Dan


 

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Status: offline 		Steve, I drew up the wing a while ago when you gave me enough information. You said that the span of the chord where it entered the fuselage was 22 inches and that the fuselage was 12 1/8 inch wide at that point. You can see those dimensions on the attached drawing. I came up with a two piece wing. Each panel had a span of 47 inches and a tip of 13 inches. This was close to the scale dimensions required. Using a straight leading edge those dimension were projected to the center of the fuselage and the wing wound up with root chord of 23 5/26 inches. The foam core will have that root size and you will have to remove the hatched area after the wing is sheeted and assembled. I do not use washout in any of my designs. Its value in models is debatable. It may help you with stalling during landings but that can be easily overcome by just landing a little bit faster. If it is used, you will be distorting the wing’s airfoil through out its entire flight envelope. I always land fast and the lack of washout never bothered me. The choice can be made when the wing cores are cut. dan

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RE: Anyone recognize this midget mustang? - 4/3/2012 6:12 AM   
cowmags


 

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Status: offline 		Ok Dan, I can see you've really thought this out.(like you've done it before!) I just couldn't envision how the center would work out but I understand it completely now. As for the washout, I can land a little faster to be able to have a nicely performing wing throughout the whole flight regime. I agree that it's better that way. I may have to clear the workbench, it looks like it's about time to build a wing. Steve

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RE: Anyone recognize this midget mustang? - 4/6/2012 3:02 AM   
All Day Dan


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Steve, I dropped of the tracing I made of the mold you sent me at my local Kinkos today. Nobody was around so I left it on the counter. I left a note and asked them to scan it in to a TIFF file. I'll be able to bring that in to AutoCAD real easy. I hope they get it right. Dan.

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RE: Anyone recognize this midget mustang? - 4/6/2012 6:01 AM   
cowmags


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Dan, I hope it works. I'm really looking forward to seeing what you come up with. No rush though, I'm staying plenty busy with my Giant Aeromaster. I've got all the covering done finally and I'll be hinging control surfaces this weekend and installing servos and radio gear. It's getting close to being an airplane and I just can't wait! Talk to ya later, Steve

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RE: Anyone recognize this midget mustang? - 4/9/2012 8:18 PM   
All Day Dan


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Steve, I finally found a live person at Kinkos and got in a good scan of the traceing I made from the mold you sent me. Go back to the fuselage and get me the best and final measurements you can get at the fuselage opening. We'll go with those and I'll send you a print for another try. It will cost you another $200 to $300 for the foam core and wood. You wont know if it is right or not until it's done so I want to get it right at the start. Dan.

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RE: Anyone recognize this midget mustang? - 4/10/2012 1:25 AM   
cowmags


 

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Status: offline 		Ok here goes, Thickness at sides is 5/32" Thickness at center 1/2" Distance side to side at trailing edge is 11 7/8" and Distance leading edge to trailing edge is 22 5/16" This is as accurate as I can get. I'm pretty sure this will get us a nice fitting wing. How's the pusher flying? Hope you're enjoying it. We've had some great weather that provided some really nice flying all weekend and I didn't even break anything! Steve

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RE: Anyone recognize this midget mustang? - 4/10/2012 2:16 AM   
All Day Dan


 

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Status: offline 		Steve, I got in some great flights with the pusher last Monday. I have three planes ready to fly at all times and fly once a week. It will be a couple of weeks before I get back to it. I'm afraid I'm cooking the engine back there because the cylinder is very hot by the time I taxi back to the pits. As I knew before I got started with it, TOO BAD.

Here's my first cut at the airfoil. I used the mold as my guide and the full size plot I came up with is within a 1/16 of an inch match to the mold. The airfoil is 17% thick. It's a little beefy for a racer but that's what it came out. I used the tracing of the upper surface and simply mirrored it around a parallel chord line to give me a symetrical airfoil. It should fly well. Dan.

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RE: Anyone recognize this midget mustang? - 4/10/2012 5:49 AM   
cowmags


 

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Status: offline 		Nice work Dan. It looks like it will fly fast enough to be fun and slow enough to be able to land without going any grayer than I already am! Do you think the original had a fully symmetrical airfoil? I don't know, I'm just asking. How do they cool pushers on full scale planes. Could you put some scoops on the side of the fuselage to direct some airflow or maybe on the bottom where they don't show? Just guessing. Good luck. Steve

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RE: Anyone recognize this midget mustang? - 4/12/2012 6:05 AM   
All Day Dan


 

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Status: offline 		Steve, I got the new airfoil ready to be mailed out to you on Thursday. The chord is a little short to make sure it will fit. You can add some balsa to make up the difference. I would rather have it this way than too long. You will also be adding some fiberglass cloth and your finish. The core will be cut minus the 3/32 sheeting. I don't think the model ever had a nonsymmetrical airfoil. They are used more on scale type models to help in stability during landing. The Cosmic Wind was built for speed and a very experienced pilot. Full scale pushers used air ducts and radiators to cool their engines. Those are weighty luxuries we can not afford. My pusher lands like a manhole cover. It's lucky I got an 800 foot paved runway top use. Check it out. Dan.
http://www.pvmac.com/about-pvmac/pradofield.html

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RE: Anyone recognize this midget mustang? - 4/12/2012 6:43 AM   
cowmags


 

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Status: offline 		Great news Dan! I can't wait to get it sent to the foam cutters. It sounds like you've got it figured out very well. The next step is where I get to do something. I'm confident I can do this, I just need some coaching. The manhole cover reference had me laughing out loud. That's a new one to me. I checked out your flying site and all I can say is WOW! Beautiful place, you guys know how to do it right. I downloaded the Realflight sim of your field and flew on it, I think it's one of the best sites on Realflight now. I'll be checking the mail and I'll let you know when it gets here. Thanks, Steve

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RE: Anyone recognize this midget mustang? - 4/17/2012 12:07 AM   
cowmags


 

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Status: offline 		It's here! It's here! Woohoooo! Now what do I do? Should I print out the dimensions you sent earlier and send the airfoil and dimensions to the foam cutters? Or is there more info that I need to provide?

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RE: Anyone recognize this midget mustang? - 4/17/2012 12:23 AM   
All Day Dan


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Steve, Use the pattern to cut out a thick piece of balsa to make sure it matches the wing saddle. Also check the chord line. It should be parallel to the horizontal stab. Once you verify that everything is good I'll continue to design the wing and the airfoil that the cutter will use. Dan.

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RE: Anyone recognize this midget mustang? - 4/17/2012 3:12 AM   
cowmags


 

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Status: offline 		Ohhhhh. I get it. Will do. Steve

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RE: Anyone recognize this midget mustang? - 4/23/2012 5:38 AM   
cowmags


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Dan, Sorry about the delay. I've checked the airfoil now and the closest measurement I can get is -0.5 degree A of I. The fit seems fine. The gap is minor and easily filled, I think, when I match fill the saddle area to the wing. I can probably even get that 1/2 degree out when I do the fillet. I think we have a winner here. I showed it to my friend that has designed some full scale planes as well as RC planes and he thinks its going to be a great wing. Let me know what you think. Steve

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RE: Anyone recognize this midget mustang? - 4/23/2012 4:31 PM   
All Day Dan


 

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Status: offline 		Who said all the news is bad? This is great! Have you given any more thought to the type of ailerons you want? The inset ailerons look better but are much more difficult to do. If you get it wrong, you can lose the entire wing. The strip ailerons are much easier and there is plenty of room for error. You will never notice the difference in flight characteristics. I also need to know which servo you are going to use. It will help with the cut out location and the servo wire channel. You can get a better handle on the chord line when you have the wing together. Removing the existing fill down to the flange should be easy enough and then you can start from scratch to get the wing aligned right. Dan

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RE: Anyone recognize this midget mustang? - 4/23/2012 11:36 PM   
cowmags


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Dan, I think I'd like to keep it simple and if the strip ailerons work as well as the inset ones then I would like to go with strip ailerons. I'm planning on using Hitec HS5645MG servos. they should be plenty strong enough as well as having good (and predictable) centering characteristics. I'm about a week away from flying my Giant Aeromaster so it looks like the timing of this Midget Mustang project is just right.

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RE: Anyone recognize this midget mustang? - 4/23/2012 11:54 PM   
All Day Dan


 

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Status: offline 		Good decision. The strip ailerons are the way to go. I'll start on the wing and templates for the core. Dan.

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RE: Anyone recognize this midget mustang? - 4/24/2012 1:46 AM   
cowmags


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Dan. You're awesome!

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RE: Anyone recognize this midget mustang? - 4/24/2012 2:04 AM   
All Day Dan


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for the compliment. I hope it holds up through the maiden. This is reverse engineering in its purest form. I'm going to attach a print out of how far I have gone so far. I hope it is readable by the time RCU goes over it. I'm still working on it and I'll explain it in a later post. Dan

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