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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 3:34 PM   
tryingagain



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Status: offline 		Now I see what happens when paranoia runs rampant. I am glad I live in Canada!

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 3:38 PM   
littlecrankshaf



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quote:

ORIGINAL: tryingagain

Now I see what happens when paranoia runs rampant. I am glad I live in Canada!


You guys don’t get into drama up there? You should try it... makes you buy more soap... and thats good for the economy!

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 3:49 PM   
H5487


 

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ORIGINAL: ira d
AT present I would say that 99% of all rc flyers know nothing about any moratorium on uas flying nor are they required to know.


It's been mentioned several times over the past year in Model Aviation. Unfortunately, from what I've gathered by reading other threads in RCU's AMA Discussion forum, that few AMA members actually read the magazine. Nonetheless, every court will tell you (as well as my Dad) that ignorance of the law is no defense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ira d
Someone said the city or port authority had approved these flights..."


Actually, the intro for the YouTube video only said that they received "approval for the project". Since the author said "project" instead of "approval for the flight", I'm under the impression that it was received from 20th Century Fox and not the FAA.

Harvey

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 3:58 PM   
HoundDog


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tryingagain

Now I see what happens when paranoia runs rampant. I am glad I live in Canada!
Have about 20 of Your Neighbores that spend the winter here and fly at the Arizona Model Aviators field in Apache Junction. Since all this started and the authorities hav restricted 2 fields to 400'  things have really tightened up here.  
                                    


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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 3:58 PM   
H5487


 

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ORIGINAL: tryingagain

Now I see what happens when paranoia runs rampant. I am glad I live in Canada!

We're discussing whether or not three people broke the law. Where do you read paranoia into it? (Or are you just injecting a cute little post into a discussion that you know little about?)

And by the way, what the FAA does in the states is often copied by your own government. Therefore, it behooves you to take seriously what's going on down here.

Harvey

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 3:58 PM   
littlecrankshaf



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Status: offline 		One thing that isn’t given enough thought...technology will continue to out pace the sloth like bureaucracy and that will only escalate. Maybe just one law will suffice... You must get permission to do anything... “mother may I”?

http://www.break.com/index/swarm-of-nano-quadrotors-2295423


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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 4:03 PM   
H5487


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

One thing that isn’t given enough thought...technology will continue to out pace the sloth like bureaucracy and that will only escalate.

And that is exactly my take on what the FAA is hoping to accomplish with its NPRM: Getting a handle on the situation (the expected rapid growth of commercial and government use of UAVs) before the situation gets completely out of control.

(OMG, I agreed with him again!)

Harvey

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 4:06 PM   
on_your_six


 

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Status: offline 		You are correct... the only reason our private RC aircraft are still flying is because they are not commercial enterprises.

If you try and start an arial photography business (or any other commercial RC flying) and advertise it.. don't be surprised at the stop order arriving from the FAA.


quote:

ORIGINAL: H5487
Silent,
Six,
Give it up. These guys are just playing with us. NOBODY can be THAT ignorant of the situation that they can continue to blindly argue against the facts that have been presented to them. Let them stick their hands over their ears while chanting ''La La La, I can't hear you''. When storm clouds roll in, all some people seem to see are clouds shaped like kittens and ponies.
Harvey



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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 4:19 PM   
jessiej



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael R.

I've seen the video you're talking about but I seemed to miss the part where they fly over New York city.

See for yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcDN409ZBv4

They appear to be flying from a wide open park over a river with the city buildings in the distant background. Even the footage showing the ground shows the public well within safety. They are well under 400 feet in altitude and had ground crew numbers large enough to serve as safety spotters. Did they do everything right? Did they get the proper permits and notify all the FBOs in the vicinity? I hope that they did.

The video is to me a welcome promotion for the RC hobby.


NO, NO, NO! The OP is right. The Government MUST control every action of each of its subjects, er, citizens every moment!

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 4:21 PM   
jessiej



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quote:

ORIGINAL: tryingagain

Now I see what happens when paranoia runs rampant. I am glad I live in Canada!


Yeah! Look at the Canadian firearms laws. There is a government that really trusts the citizens!.

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 6:15 PM   
P. Richards



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Status: offline 		I actually saw a video this morning on nation wide news, it was very positive regarding the flying of these planes...

P. Richards aka SwatTeam

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 6:29 PM   
fly24-7



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R


quote:

ORIGINAL: ira d


quote:

ORIGINAL: H5487

So, then, are you guys saying that it is okay with you that three fellow modelers (AMA members at that) broke the law in a very public way during a time when the FAA has small UAVs (including our model airplanes) under the microscope?

Are you saying that their thumbing their noses at the FAA is nothing for the rest of us to be upset about?

How can you not care?

Harvey



The proposed laws are not in effect yet so what law did they break by flying some models to be photographed? About the only thing we could say is their AMA
insurance may not have been in force during the filming.



The FAA has imposed a moratorium on all sUAS flying except under the three different specific authorities I have cited several times in this thread. If they were not operating in accordance with one of those then they were not legally operating. Why is that seemingly so difficult to understand?


And since you don't know what provisions/approvals were in place for this event, you (and many others in this thread) very well may be carrying on over nothing.

So rather than having a dozen more pages of angst over this, why don't we wait until we actually have some facts.

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 6:41 PM   
ira d


 

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Status: offline 		One thing many seem to forget is the laws that many are trying to use prosecute these guys were ment to apply exclusively to non recreational
flying they were not intended to apply to recreational rc activity. At present i'm not aware of any law that requires the recreational rc flyer to be
up on FAA policy Also I dont belive the laws were ment to try and make many things recreational rc flyers do suddenly become non recreational.

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 7:25 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R


quote:

ORIGINAL: ira d


quote:

ORIGINAL: H5487

So, then, are you guys saying that it is okay with you that three fellow modelers (AMA members at that) broke the law in a very public way during a time when the FAA has small UAVs (including our model airplanes) under the microscope?

Are you saying that their thumbing their noses at the FAA is nothing for the rest of us to be upset about?

How can you not care?

Harvey


The are operating under AC 91-57 these rules do not apply.  They are not hiring out the aircraft for compensation.  They are not taking pictures, nor taking air temperatures, etc for compensation. 


The proposed laws are not in effect yet so what law did they break by flying some models to be photographed? About the only thing we could say is their AMA
insurance may not have been in force during the filming.



The FAA has imposed a moratorium on all sUAS flying except under the three different specific authorities I have cited several times in this thread. If they were not operating in accordance with one of those then they were not legally operating. Why is that seemingly so difficult to understand?



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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 7:32 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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Status: online 		Those are not regulations but guidelines.  Included is this tidbit.

　

5.0

Alternate Methods of Compliance

All limitations and procedures presented in this guidance document are to be considered as general guidelines only. Each application is evaluated on its own technical merit based on its own set of operational parameters and proposed operational profiles, mitigations, and systems. As such, deviations and alternate methods of compliance may be approved and may differ from the information presented in this document. Therefore, if the applicant makes a safety case and presents sufficient data for an alternate means of compliance, then this data should be taken into consideration and evaluated for possible approval.

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 7:33 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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quote:

ORIGINAL: ira d

One thing many seem to forget is the laws that many are trying to use prosecute these guys were ment to apply exclusively to non recreational
flying they were not intended to apply to recreational rc activity. At present i'm not aware of any law that requires the recreational rc flyer to be
up on FAA policy Also I dont belive the laws were ment to try and make many things recreational rc flyers do suddenly become non recreational.



To include getting paid for your hobby! 

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 7:38 PM   
erik valdez


 

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Status: offline 		Have any of you ever been to or live in NYC? Flying rc planes there is a common practice and has been for a while. A few years ago I visited my Sister in New Jersey and took the trip to the City. At one of the local parks ( in the city) there was a good crowd of guy's flying electrics. Think about it, really.

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 7:48 PM   
804


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fly24-7

quote:

ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R


quote:

ORIGINAL: ira d


quote:

ORIGINAL: H5487

So, then, are you guys saying that it is okay with you that three fellow modelers (AMA members at that) broke the law in a very public way during a time when the FAA has small UAVs (including our model airplanes) under the microscope?

Are you saying that their thumbing their noses at the FAA is nothing for the rest of us to be upset about?

How can you not care?

Harvey



The proposed laws are not in effect yet so what law did they break by flying some models to be photographed? About the only thing we could say is their AMA
insurance may not have been in force during the filming.



The FAA has imposed a moratorium on all sUAS flying except under the three different specific authorities I have cited several times in this thread. If they were not operating in accordance with one of those then they were not legally operating. Why is that seemingly so difficult to understand?


And since you don't know what provisions/approvals were in place for this event, you (and many others in this thread) very well may be carrying on over nothing.

So rather than having a dozen more pages of angst over this, why don't we wait until we actually have some facts.


The Nervous Nellies need something to wring their hands about.


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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 8:04 PM   
BobbyMcGee


 

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ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

Hmmm... how to end this debacle??? I’ll try.

Yes, there are laws for just about every single thing we do today.

In this case, the consensus is the law no greater than the enforcement. FAA contends with much greater issues daily... and most of those slip right on by as well.

Now, we can post on these forums trying to give this type of thing as much negative exposure as possible, that will ultimately cause some action by FAA, that undoubtedly will only continue the retardation model aviation...or we can just shut or say that’s pretty cool... and go on...

Look the bottom line...the restrictions we have so far stem from a bunch of whining...so keep it up and you’ll have more to whine about...self fulfilling proposition...


The FAA does not concern itself with message board discussions such as the one here. The only people that will see this are the ones who have written here. This is not going to result in any kind of publicity.

Talking about this topic is the most usless waste of time I can think of. Here's another two minutes of my life that I'll never get back.

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 8:16 PM   
BobbyMcGee


 

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ORIGINAL: on_your_six

You are correct... the only reason our private RC aircraft are still flying is because they are not commercial enterprises.

If you try and start an arial photography business (or any other commercial RC flying) and advertise it.. don't be surprised at the stop order arriving from the FAA.



Holy crap! You mean I have to repaint my Hooter's plane because it falls under "Commercial advertising"?

Get a grip!  Where is your law degree that supports your idea as to what commercial advertising is, or is not; how it is used; and how it relates to such FAA regulation? 
The way this is going, next you could all be discussing and debating neuro-surgery as if you knew all about it.



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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 8:26 PM   
Silent-AV8R



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quote:

ORIGINAL: ira d
Im not aware of any rc flyers that the FAA has contacted and told of a moratorium in fact Silent is the only one that I have heard
talking about a moratorium.



The average modeler is not affected since the FAA has basically said to keep doing what we have been, flying under the authorization of AC 91-57. I can assure you that the other two categories, civil use and public use, are acutely aware of the FAA policy and the fact that you can ONLY operate under a COA for public use sUAS or a SAC for civil sUAS. The FAA has made the information readily accessible and widely advertised. No, they do not call up each and every modeler in the US and tell them, so it is no surprise that nobody you know understands the situation. Again, ignorance is no defense.

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 8:27 PM   
BobbyMcGee


 

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Status: offline 		I put altitude indicators in several of the prop planes I fly. Not a single time have they ever indicated a level of 400 feet. Each and every time, they read 650 feet to 1100 feet ... and I don't fly nearly as high as do many of the other people. I fly sport planes that average 90 to 110 mph. It only takes them 7 seconds to get to 400 feet...maybe less. But I bet no one really has an idea what 400 feet looks like. With only 400 feet to work with, I'd be afraid to do a loop.

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 8:28 PM   
Silent-AV8R



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ORIGINAL: BobbyMcGee

Holy crap! You mean I have to repaint my Hooter's plane because it falls under ''Commercial advertising''?




Unless Hooters paid for the plane to be covered like that and they pay you to fly the plane around I think you have little to worry about.

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 8:30 PM   
Silent-AV8R



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ORIGINAL: fly24-7


And since you don't know what provisions/approvals were in place for this event, you (and many others in this thread) very well may be carrying on over nothing.

So rather than having a dozen more pages of angst over this, why don't we wait until we actually have some facts.


I laid out a very clear method for deducing which authorization they would be operating under. Choosing to ignore clear reasoning on your part does not mean others are wrong.


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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 8:30 PM   
BobbyMcGee


 

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