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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/1/2012 8:33 PM   
raptureboy


 

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Status: online 		Do a little research, they had approval from the city and one of them even ended up in the river and was retrieved by the harbor patrol. This was not some off the wall stunt.


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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/1/2012 8:37 PM   
804


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: raptureboy

Do a little research, they had approval from the city and one of them even ended up in the river and was retrieved by the harbor patrol. This was not some off the wall stunt.

Heck, that just took all the fun outta this thread.

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/1/2012 9:12 PM   
rgburrill



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot


quote:

ORIGINAL: rgburrill


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

quote:

If they guys doing the flying were compensated then it is a commercial enterprise.


That has never been their definition of commercial it is rather to carry passengers, or goods for hire.  Some parts extend it to services, but the service must be directly tied to the flying of the aircraft.  This is directly tied to a video of the aircraft and is not commercial.


You are very wrong - for AMA and the FAA commercial is making money.  That meakes selling photos, doing real estate ads, and doing movie scenes.

.

Selling photo's, and real estate, yes.  Movie scenes perhaps not sure about that one, but this was promotion of a hobby and the FAA has said you can get paid to do promotions without triggering sUAS regulations. 

BTW commercial goes back to the constitution, under regulating interstate commerce.  So prior court rulings on full scale do count and in no way can this be interstate, only its proximity to interstate commerce routes makes this relevent.. 


Sorry, this was NOT promotion of the hobby.  It was promotion of the movie "Chronicle".


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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/1/2012 9:13 PM   
Rafael23cc



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quote:

ORIGINAL: skyblue

...The pilots all AMA members were recruited to fly these planes around NYC. ...


Commenrcial or not commercial; who would you rather have flying the models? People that at least are aware of the rules? Or non-AMA members?

I _could_ see your point of view; a person that does not know the rules, sees this and thinks it is ok to do so, thus initiating a safety concern. But really? to the point of throwing the AMA members in jail. Isn't that a little too harsh?

Rafael


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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/1/2012 9:16 PM   
rgburrill



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quote:

ORIGINAL: 804


quote:

ORIGINAL: raptureboy

Do a little research, they had approval from the city and one of them even ended up in the river and was retrieved by the harbor patrol. This was not some off the wall stunt.

Heck, that just took all the fun outta this thread.[&o]


I really do not get the concept that anarchy and doing whatever you want is fun.  What is wrong with following a few simple rules?

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/1/2012 9:22 PM   
eddieC



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quote:

We are talking about what the FAA considers commercial, not what your local park considers commercial. 


Mr Sport Pilot,

PLEASE get a clue. You need to call your local GADO/FSDO and talk to a flight standards guy about the definition of 'commercial'. I KNOW what the FAA considers commercial ops, and having instructed almost 3K of those hours, am also well aware of what a private pilot may or may not charge for. 
Being a 15K+hr corporate pilot, commercial, airline transport ratings, etc... (I believe SilentAV8R is also a former pro pilot). I've flown freight, people, blood, human organs, you name it. The simple fact is, if it's done for money in US airspace, the FAA has oversight.
You tend to stick with your viewpoints in spite of others trying to set you straight. In the name of all that is holy, please give the 'commercial' debate a rest!

"He who knows he knows, knows nothing;
He who knows he knows of nothing, really knows." 

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/1/2012 9:55 PM   
Silent-AV8R



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quote:

ORIGINAL: cj_rumley

Andrew Jesky is flying commercially every time he takes off, according to some folks.   I wonder if he has fun doing it......




Again, with respect to sUAS "commercial" is not as meaningful as the type of operations, and there are only three:

1) Recreation/Hobby
2)Civil aircraft
3)Public Use (police, etc.)

Which category you fit in determines what you need to do. Even people like Andrew will still be under the recreation since they are representing a hobby product. Just like a Cessna salesman who does not need a commercial ticket to take people on slaes demonstration flights.

We need to move away from this "commercial" thing, even I am guilty of that. It is those three categories of operation that matter.

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/1/2012 9:56 PM   
crash99


 

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Status: offline 		There were no rules broken so why is this in the AMA thread? It has nothing to do with the AMA. Just some guys having a fun time with a good video operator. I think the video was very nice but this is not a nice video thread. This is also not the Fun Police thread. So can anyone tell me what this has to do with the AMA?

Crash99

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/1/2012 9:59 PM   
Silent-AV8R



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quote:

ORIGINAL: eddieC
(I believe SilentAV8R is also a former pro pilot).


Only in my dreams!! I do have a PPL and glider tickets and have some time under my belt, but all for the fun of keeping the FBO going!!


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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/1/2012 11:34 PM   
on_your_six


 

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Status: offline 		The FAA recently grounded the guys in ultra-lights leading the Snow Geese to Florida... they worked for the organization doing "other" work and said they were not being paid to fly with the Geese... FAA saw right through that guise and grounded the outfit. It took a special one-time relaxation of the rules to get the operation out of Alabama and on their way to Florida.

No matter how you disguise it, the FAA has the final say... with most sUAS organizations grounded for lack of COA's everywhere, I don't see how this slipped by. They were definitely not sanctioned by the FAA to fly this event. I don't think that we have heard the last about this. Hopefully the proposed rules will be released in near future.

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/1/2012 11:39 PM   
nute12


 

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Status: offline 		lol depron and maybe 600 watts of power.....had permission and was overseen. I am having a hard time finding out what is wrong? OH! I know!....it's not flying season....guys got too much time on their hands.
Get a grip fella's

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/1/2012 11:47 PM   
fly24-7



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Status: offline 		Considering that the media reported that Harbor Patrol fished one of these things out of the water and didn't run them off or hall them to jail tells me that they had their bases covered with the city.

We can't assume that anything that doesn't happen within the confines of a dedicated R/C flying site is someone going rouge.

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 12:57 AM   
H5487


 

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Status: offline 		Many of you are missing the boat on this. The FAA is in the process of determining where recreational R/C ends and commercial UAVs begin. Those that qualify as commercial will soon be controlled more tightly than model airplanes (but not as much as full-scale commercial aviation). But until the NPRM on the subject is released, and the proposed UAV regulations become law, the FAA has placed a moritorium on commercial UAV activities.

Then we have these three pilots who were presumably paid to fly their three RCSuperheroes to promote a movie for 20th Century Fox. In addition, the RCSuperheroes were constructed by paid builders. (According to Matt McDaniel who wrote the intro for the YouTube clip.) This was clearly a commercial venture from the beginning and involved three "expert AMA pilots" (again, according to Mr McDaniel) who cannot claim to be ignorant of the upcoming FAA NPRM and the commercial prohibition in place right now.

The subject here is that THIS is a perfect example of three r/c pilots (AMA members at that!) doing something that they know to be illegal and could care less about giving the FAA more reason to enact tighter legislation for model airplane activities!

quote:

: Original: Fly 24-7
Considering that the media reported that Harbor Patrol fished one of these things out of the water and didn't run them off or hall them to jail tells me that they had their bases covered with the city.


Uh, 24-7, the city doesn't control the airspace, the FAA does.

Harvey

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 12:58 AM   
thepamster


 

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Status: offline 		No wonder nobody builds model airplanes anymore. You are all on here going off about nothing.
Well, I got to go my glue has dried.

The Pamster
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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 1:25 AM   
nute12


 

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Status: offline 		I doubt very much the "AMA pilots" thought it was illegal. It was a permitted photo shoot for a movie/series whatever the heck that show is, trailer video.
As thepamster said, this is making much ado about nothing. As far as "AMA pilots" go.... I see quite a few that should be in another hobby. AMA membership does not make a competent flyer. I bet 85% get AMA only because they have to due to club policies. What makes a "AMA pilot" so great? training? LOL proficiency? double LOL. You can see my satire here and it is intended, These are toy airplane we build and fly for FUN. If ya wanna spread sour grapes and we are all doomed stuff.... go ahead. FAA is not after our hobby. They are after control of commercial uas systems, not our toy airplanes, but if we make a big enuff stink about every little thing WE see. I am sure they will be happy to oblige.
Now i got this off my chest....im gettin back to the Katana build. fuse cross braces should be dry.

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 1:29 AM   
Silent-AV8R



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quote:

ORIGINAL: H5487

Many of you are missing the boat on this. The FAA is in the process of determining where recreational R/C ends and commercial UAVs begin. Those that qualify as commercial will soon be controlled more tightly than model airplanes (but not as much as full-scale commercial aviation). But until the NPRM on the subject is released, and the proposed UAV regulations become law, the FAA has placed a moritorium on commercial UAV activities.

Harvey


Well said.


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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 1:35 AM   
BobbyMcGee


 

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Status: offline 		I don't know why anyone wants to get their panties in a wad over this.  It's great that someone made R/C superheros fly.  BRILLIANT !!!

And so what that they flew it in a park in Manhattan!   Geeze ... get a life and stop looking to complain!  It's old, boring, and no one wants to hear it.
Live happy!


I was going to design my own, but now I see they have a website, so I bought one!  Can't wait to get it flying!



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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 1:37 AM   
BobbyMcGee


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

quote:

ORIGINAL: H5487

Many of you are missing the boat on this. The FAA is in the process of determining where recreational R/C ends and commercial UAVs begin. Those that qualify as commercial will soon be controlled more tightly than model airplanes (but not as much as full-scale commercial aviation). But until the NPRM on the subject is released, and the proposed UAV regulations become law, the FAA has placed a moritorium on commercial UAV activities.

Harvey


Well said.



We fly R/C toys ... they are not UAV's 

Enjoy your worring if that's what you do.  The rest of us know better.  At least I do!

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 1:45 AM   
H5487


 

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Status: offline 		So, then, are you guys saying that it is okay with you that three fellow modelers (AMA members at that) broke the law in a very public way during a time when the FAA has small UAVs (including our model airplanes) under the microscope?

Are you saying that their thumbing their noses at the FAA is nothing for the rest of us to be upset about?

How can you not care?

Harvey

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 1:51 AM   
nute12


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: H5487

So, then, are you guys saying that it is okay with you that three fellow modelers (AMA members at that) broke the law in a very public way during a time when the FAA has small UAVs (including our model airplanes) under the microscope?

Are you saying that their thumbing their noses at the FAA is nothing for the rest of us to be upset about?

How can you not care?

Harvey

Pretty much..... get over it. nothin was wrong there.

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 1:52 AM   
FILE IFR



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot


quote:

ORIGINAL: cj_rumley

Andrew Jesky is flying commercially every time he takes off, according to some folks.   I wonder if he has fun doing it......



Getting paid for RC air shows or competitive flying is also not commercial flying.  He is not hiring his plane out when he does this.  There used to be a document on the FAA site that explained cvommercial activities, but I can not find it right now.



Do you know anything about what you just wrote?? I mean.... really?

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 1:54 AM   
H5487


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BobbyMcGee
We fly R/C toys ... they are not UAV's


Bobby,

Wake up, dude. While the rest of us agree with you in that our models are mostly "toys" for recreational use, the ugly truth is that the FAA HAS defined our models as UAVs (specifically as sUAVs) and is including our "toys" in the upcoming NPRM.

The subject at hand here is that this is not the time for any of us to be thumbing our noses at the FAA!

Harvey

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 2:11 AM   
804


 

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From: sheridan, IN, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: H5487

So, then, are you guys saying that it is okay with you that three fellow modelers (AMA members at that) broke the law in a very public way during a time when the FAA has small UAVs (including our model airplanes) under the microscope?

Are you saying that their thumbing their noses at the FAA is nothing for the rest of us to be upset about?

How can you not care?

Harvey

I think I'll wait and see what comes of this
before I take your word that they broke "the law".

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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 2:20 AM   
Silent-AV8R



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quote:

ORIGINAL: BobbyMcGee



We fly R/C toys ... they are not UAV's 

Enjoy your worring if that's what you do.  The rest of us know better.  At least I do!


Well good for you. Have you paid even the smallest bit of attention to anything the FAA has written in the past few years regarding this issue?? THEY define our models as sUAS or UAVs. Maybe take a few minutes to educate yourself.


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RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. - 2/2/2012 2:25 AM   
Vettdriver



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Status: offline 		I was approached by the A&E network about getting some aerial footage for their hog hunting show that is filmed here in Texas.

Although it never came to pass I was not going to be compensated, financially or otherwise, for my participation.
The best I was hoping for was some mention in the credits. So, since I wasn't going to be paid...... Was it commercial ?

If these pilots volunteered their services would it then cease to be a commercial activity ?

I also saw a high speed chase filmed for the show Walker Texas Ranger. Speeding on a public roadway and sliding around corners is illegal. But, those involved got permission and the permits and all of a sudden it was all OK.

I'm betting something similar happened here.

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