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RE: Cooling Holes in diesel heads. - 2/6/2012 3:06 AM   
fiery


 

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From: Hervey Bay Queensland, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Is the Mr Bedford who designed the engine still alive? If so, perhaps someone could contact him and pass on the query.

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RE: Cooling Holes in diesel heads. - 2/6/2012 3:37 AM   
Recycled Flyer


 

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From: SydneyNew South wales, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Now here is a good ETA site -
http://www.pbase.com/johnlich/eta

And a bit more about him here -
http://modelenginenews.org/mate/odessey2010.1.html



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RE: Cooling Holes in diesel heads. - 2/9/2012 1:10 AM   
maxtenet



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Status: offline 		I'm with Jim on this one. I think its to relieve pressure above the contra to atmospheric pressure so that when backed off the contra would come up. Really, how much cooling could a few tiny holes make?

Max

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RE: Cooling Holes in diesel heads. - 2/9/2012 1:40 AM   
qazimoto


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: maxtenet

I'm with Jim on this one. I think its to relieve pressure above the contra to atmospheric pressure so that when backed off the contra would come up. Really, how much cooling could a few tiny holes make?

Max


This was discussed on the Barton where a few of the members actually manufacture diesels. David Owen (who has designed and manufactured a few batches of diesels in his time)
suggested that holes would be ineffective because what gases were there would leak out the compression screw hole anyway and when leaky contrapistons become a problem the piston and liner are also due for some urgent attention. This was a top of the range racing engine after all.

Possible the best possible explanation was that they were there for "bling", something to add to the testosterone charged emotion we all feel when we look at a new shiny model engine in all it's glory.

Ray

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RE: Cooling Holes in diesel heads. - 2/9/2012 2:15 AM   
AMB


 

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Status: offline 		Right up there with spoilers on trunk lids of passenger cars " Look cool" ???? do nothing for handling martin

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RE: Cooling Holes in diesel heads. - 2/9/2012 9:17 PM   
Recycled Flyer


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: locktite401

quote:

ORIGINAL: maxtenet

I'm with Jim on this one. I think its to relieve pressure above the contra to atmospheric pressure so that when backed off the contra would come up. Really, how much cooling could a few tiny holes make?

Max


This was discussed on the Barton where a few of the members actually manufacture diesels. David Owen (who has designed and manufactured a few batches of diesels in his time)
suggested that holes would be ineffective because what gases were there would leak out the compression screw hole anyway and when leaky contrapistons become a problem the piston and liner are also due for some urgent attention. This was a top of the range racing engine after all.

Possible the best possible explanation was that they were there for "bling", something to add to the testosterone charged emotion we all feel when we look at a new shiny model engine in all it's glory.

Ray


Update, Dave Owen has mentioned "I'm now convinced that the holes we are talking about were intended to aid cooling."

I would run with that one Ray.



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RE: Cooling Holes in diesel heads. - 2/9/2012 11:20 PM   
pe reivers



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Status: offline 		I'm not convinced. Not at all. Internal heat and material expansion management is complicated. Engine (as a whole) cooling can only take place at the ouside of the engine by exchanging heat with the airflow. Those holes are, to say the least, less than optimal suited for that purpose. They may however serve to obtain internal temperature rise quicker due to less material to heat up. Many ???? here.


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RE: Cooling Holes in diesel heads. - 2/9/2012 11:33 PM   
Recycled Flyer


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pe reivers

I'm not convinced. Not at all. Internal heat and material expansion management is complicated. Engine (as a whole) cooling can only take place at the ouside of the engine by exchanging heat with the airflow. Those holes are, to say the least, less than optimal suited for that purpose. They may however serve to obtain internal temperature rise quicker due to less material to heat up. Many ???? here.


Pe´, since Dave Owen personally knows Ken Bedford (having visited him late last year), I think that its fair to say that the 'intention' is as stated. As to the effectiveness, I take your point.

< Message edited by Recycled Flyer -- 2/10/2012 12:52 AM >

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RE: Cooling Holes in diesel heads. - 2/10/2012 12:00 AM   
qazimoto


 

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Status: offline 		As someone pointed out elsewhere by the time the ETA Elite had been developed it's supremacy as a F2C engine was slipping.

It was fitted with a muffler as these were compulsory for a short time in the UK for racing.

The latter were an unmitigated disaster and many successful teams just gave up rather than use them.

Perhaps the "cooling" holes were more effective with the muffler.

The ETA 15 had surpassed the Oliver Tiger but was itself rapidly replaced in competitions with the Super Tigre G20/15D and later the G15 RISE diesel which were better performers after the mid 1960's.

I don't have any ETA 15's but have six ETA 29 glows, again a formidable engine in it's day.

Ken Bedford's Company had made scales and instruments before the ETA range and went on to make window blinds afterwards.

Ray

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RE: Cooling Holes in diesel heads. - 2/10/2012 1:14 AM   
maxtenet



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Status: offline 		It would appear now that the only reasonable explanation is weight saving, although the whole thing could become clogged up with baked on castor! Perhaps we'll never know the true explanation!

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RE: Cooling Holes in diesel heads. - 2/10/2012 2:08 AM   
ffkiwi


 

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From: Upper HuttWellington, NEW ZEALAND
Status: online 		Or maybe it was the other way around-when fitted with the muffler(s) [there were two as I recall], the engine ran hotter-only the Elite model had muffler lugs-and only the Mk2 Elite had the cooling holes. It also had much more fin area than the Mk1 Elite-nearly twice the number of fins 12 on the Mk2 vs 7 on the Mk1-this suggests to me that cooling had become an issue-either for reliability, range or power-and was initially addressed by Eta by increasing the engines cooling fin area. Perhaps testing showed that this was still inadequate and the holes were put in-as a cheap quick fix. Production wise-it would have been easier than redesigning the head to be able to machine head fins-there would have been enough 'meat' in the head as it was designed to achieve any effective head finning-and it would have been tricky to do as well with the comp screw boss in the middle. Head fins would have been a lot more effective though..............

ffkiwi

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RE: Cooling Holes in diesel heads. - 2/10/2012 2:41 AM   
raglafart


 

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From: Lane Cove N.S.W. , AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Given the era the Elites were manufactured and the technology and thinking of the day, I don't think there is any doubt that it was done to improve cooling.
Once someone made that prototype head, anyone would have had to agree it looked the dogs do da's and regardless of how effective or infective they were for the purpose.
I'd be pretty sure they thought that the holes wouldn't hurt sales and would probably temp a few more to the ETA name.
There's no doubt that looks were very much part of the ETA agenda, subtle blues and reds along with later gold anodising!
Techno bling, with more debatable positives than minuses for me

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RE: Cooling Holes in diesel heads. - 2/25/2012 9:14 AM   
123Cat


 

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From: ACTAustralia, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Well as far as cooling goes , some  are trying to make them hotter , I read that the Radiator inlet temp on the Toyota F1 car was 130 C and the outlet temp was 122C when they were racing  

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