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RE: 1/4 scale Morane Saulnier Type N French Scout - 1/31/2013 3:06 PM   
BobH


 

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Status: offline 		Look at the "leather" thread in this forum. There are places to buy nice, thin leather.

Very nice work on the cockpit details! One of my favorite things to do and see.

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RE: 1/4 scale Morane Saulnier Type N French Scout - 1/31/2013 6:12 PM   
Nieuport nut


 

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Status: offline 		While I know there are some who like the fabric clothed pilots, in my opinion the fabric is much too stiff and un-lifelike. I still like Aces of Iron busts in-spite of the need to paint them and the fact they are only upper body halves. You can pull him out on the ground if the lack of legs bothers you! The website has an excellent set of painting instructions.

http://www.acesofiron.com/4th_scale.htm

Martin

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RE: 1/4 scale Morane Saulnier Type N French Scout - 2/7/2013 8:54 PM   
Flying Fox


 

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Status: offline 		I’ve begun work on the Hotchkiss light machine gun. MGs have such a prominent position on most WWI planes that along with cockpits they become one of several key focal points on a model. I've seen many an excelent example on others' posts so I will try to live up to expectations with this. Wood, aluminum, paper, plastic - all good materials but what would work best for my aplication?

Decided to make mine mostly from plastic styrene tubing & sheeting, with some wood and other bits and pieces. The tubing is handy as it allows the tubes to be nested within each other to replicate the concentric rings, and it drills and sands easily enough. The plastic sheeting is smooth and easily cut to shape. The cooling fins section of the barrel is made from a toilet-seat screw of appropriate diameter. So far most of this is just dry fitted and still needs some finishing touches before I mate the upper barrel to the lower part, and then attach them to the stock section.
Lots of work still to go but thought I’d post a quick update…


Cheers,
Bri


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RE: 1/4 scale Morane Saulnier Type N French Scout - 2/7/2013 9:46 PM   
Mein Duff



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Status: offline 		WHAT ??? toilet seat screws ???? what is scale modeling turning into???..
very nice job so far Bri... I will post pics soon of my Lewis...getting there slowly.

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RE: 1/4 scale Morane Saulnier Type N French Scout - 2/8/2013 1:57 AM   
abufletcher



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mein Duff
WHAT ??? toilet seat screws ???? what is scale modeling turning into???..


This is the very heart of scale modeling! The legs on my EIII came from a small desk lamp. And then there's that cigar tube of yours.


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RE: 1/4 scale Morane Saulnier Type N French Scout - 2/8/2013 7:23 PM   
Mein Duff



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Status: offline 		Ok now...... Desk lamp lags are sexy in a way... Cigar tubes lend that wonderful aroma of course... but what can you say really for plastic toilet screws?? Bri I am sure you could have found as more suitable solution to this major crisis !!!!

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RE: 1/4 scale Morane Saulnier Type N French Scout - 2/11/2013 3:46 AM   
Flying Fox


 

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Status: offline 		LMAO - good one!
quote:

what can you say really for plastic toilet screws??


I like to think they add a little 'Je ne sais quois' to the build, however since you've played your card this so very early on in the game, and called the hand...

I was saving my three french 'aces' for somewhat of a glamour shoot part when the plane is finished.


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< Message edited by Flying Fox -- 2/12/2013 5:42 PM >

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RE: 1/4 scale Morane Saulnier Type N French Scout - 2/11/2013 4:00 AM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		I don't speak much French, but I recognize a little ooh-la-la when I see it!

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RE: 1/4 scale Morane Saulnier Type N French Scout - 2/11/2013 4:20 PM   
Flying Fox


 

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Status: offline 		Continuing with the Hotchkiss LMG – all the little pieces/components that make up the upper barrel are connected and joined to the lower section with the small spacer fittings glued in place. The receiver/stock section has a wood core with pieces of sheet plastic and tubing making the scale outer sides. A gap remains where the ammo feed tray components will be fit. You can see the outline of the shell casing exit hole in this location.

I’ve found some very good, detailed photos on the web to help with the fabrication of this part of the gun but it sure is quite intricate and detailed and is certainly going to make it complicated as I try to faithfully replicate this MG at ¼ scale.

Photos – two of the plastic & wood Hotchkiss LMG (aviation model)



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RE: 1/4 scale Morane Saulnier Type N French Scout - 2/11/2013 5:20 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		When you finally get this to the primer stage it's going to be just awesome! And, I believe, a FIRST!

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RE: 1/4 scale Morane Saulnier Type N French Scout - 2/11/2013 5:29 PM   
geezeraviation


 

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Status: offline 		Good looking gun Bri.
Doc

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RE: 1/4 scale Morane Saulnier Type N French Scout - 2/11/2013 8:38 PM   
Mein Duff



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Status: offline 		Brian... can you repost that trophy pic of the Ooooh La La Girls... like 4 times bigger !!!! just want to check out the scale details...we do have standards in this forum you know..
El sommes tre belle

Oooh Je me suie perdue....le machine pistole et tre belle aussi !!

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RE: 1/4 scale Morane Saulnier Type N French Scout - 2/14/2013 4:43 PM   
Flying Fox


 

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quote:

we do have standards in this forum you know

Standards...scale detail... if you insist - just look back at the post again, but you know, it's kind of like looking at the sun - if you stare at it too long you'll go blind



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RE: 1/4 scale Morane Saulnier Type N French Scout - 2/14/2013 4:53 PM   
Flying Fox


 

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Status: offline 		Work continues on the Hotchkiss (in spite of distractions) but it seems to be going ever so slow. There's a lot of finnicky detail to this MG and messing around with different materials to try to get the right look to it takes even more time. I have to post a couple pics of the very slow progress just to keep my sanity or I'll give up.

At least I've found some very detailed photos of the actual mg so I no longer have to guess at the detail - again though this can be a great benefit and a bit of a bane.

Focussing on the top section of the mg behind the barrel where the semi-flexible ammo tray is inserted on short rails that guide it into the receiver? section. Lots of angular details here - I'll try to replicate it with plastic as it is easy to score, bend and break along straight lines. You'll also notice there are a few variations of this area of the mg in the photos so i will have to compare it carefully to photos of the mg mounted on the airplane.

Bri



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< Message edited by Flying Fox -- 2/14/2013 7:39 PM >

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RE: 1/4 scale Morane Saulnier Type N French Scout - 2/14/2013 8:24 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		While you will almost certainly be the only person to know what's right and what's wrong on this miniature scratch-modeling project, what everyone who looks at the result WILL see is the depth of detailing. And that's what will make it seem real.

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RE: 1/4 scale Morane Saulnier Type N French Scout - 2/14/2013 8:48 PM   
Mein Duff



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Status: offline 		Yikes.... there certainly are a bit of tricky details to render on this gun...I wonder if you might not try so use alu for some of the small breech area pieces, this would give a harder edge than the PVC and add to the reality illusion,,, just my 2 cents. We are both going through the pangs of building very detailed guns...so I'm with you...I am up to over 40 hrs so far...( don't know why I bother keeping track)...probably from hanging around Germans too long...

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RE: 1/4 scale Morane Saulnier Type N French Scout - 2/22/2013 1:32 AM   
Flying Fox


 

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Status: offline 		Nothing worth posting yet on the Hotchkiss. However, in preparation for next steps I need some help from you all out there with the aluminum cowl for this plane, so please chime in with your advice/ideas.

The aluminum cowl was attached to the fuselage by a cable and turnbuckle system. Sounds simple but I don’t want to proceed until I figure out how it worked. Looking at the photos you’ll see what looks like small, angular C or D shaped brackets/cable eyelets around the rear circumference of the cowl. Through these are threaded a cable which is tightened by a small turnbuckle on the cowl top just below the gun barrel, one on each side.

So how does this work? I’m assuming these D brackets are attached/integral to the cowl, not the fuselage, so then:
- the cowl is slipped over the front edge of the fuselage
-the cable is run through these brackets/eyelets
- cable is then tightened with the turnbuckles
- cowl is now secure

How does this prevent the cowl from moving forward or rearward? Is the tension in the cable so much that it holds the cowl securely in place? Is there a lip or something on the inside/underneath of the cowl that it butts up against to help secure it in place? Wouldn’t a good bump to the cowl knock it out of alignment – dangerous that close to the propeller!

How are these aluminum cowls typically attached say to Nieuports, Sopwiths, Fokkers?

The cowl on my model will be secured from inside the cowl but I want to faithfully replicate the actual system.

Help & cheers!
Bri


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< Message edited by Flying Fox -- 2/22/2013 3:20 AM >

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RE: 1/4 scale Morane Saulnier Type N French Scout - 2/25/2013 1:54 PM   
Nieuport nut


 

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Status: offline 		The cable mount was quite common. The cowling has a groove pressed into the circumference which fits into a sort of heart shaped strip mounted in alignment on the fuselage. The cowling fits over this, or "pops" on in the case of a full cowling like a Pup or N.17, and is clamped with the cable. A turnbuckle is used to tighten it so that the cowling can't come off. The turnbuckle was often located at the lower longeron position ie about 4:00 to 4:30.

Martin

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RE: 1/4 scale Morane Saulnier Type N French Scout - 2/25/2013 3:29 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		What Martin said. So, yeah, there was a groove in the cowl that fit into a U-shaped channel on the fuselage "firewall." In the case of the Sopwiths this was metal tubing with the sort of "heart-shaped" cross-section that Martin describes. With the cowl in place it's a very tight fit. On the Sopwith cowls there is actually a separation with bolt that allowed the cowl to be "stretched" open enough to fit into the groove and then the separation is bolted shut...and then the cable is attached.

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RE: 1/4 scale Morane Saulnier Type N French Scout - 2/25/2013 4:40 PM   
Mein Duff



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Status: offline 		Nice job on the cowl metal work Don

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RE: 1/4 scale Morane Saulnier Type N French Scout - 2/25/2013 5:45 PM   
TFF


 

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Status: offline 		Very common, but if you look at Sopwiths and probably others, they started to add clips to hold it on better, so something like this does not happen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ApowyEXSXM
You might have to hide something on the inside too.

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RE: 1/4 scale Morane Saulnier Type N French Scout - 2/26/2013 5:16 AM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		The Snipe definitely had clips...and I'd strongly recommend using some (hidden) brackets on a model. Gene was one lucky pilot in that mishap!!! The cowl "shrapnel" could easily have destroyed the engine...or the wings.

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RE: 1/4 scale Morane Saulnier Type N French Scout - 2/26/2013 1:49 PM   
Nieuport nut


 

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Status: offline 		Yes. As cool as a working cable retainer would be, I think some more tradition R/C fastening, (hidden of coarse) would be wise.

Martin

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RE: 1/4 scale Morane Saulnier Type N French Scout - 2/26/2013 3:19 PM   
Flying Fox


 

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quote:

... one lucky pilot in that mishap!!! The cowl "shrapnel" could easily have destroyed the engine...or the wings.

TFF that's quite the video clip, wow very lucky indeed.

quote:

The cowling has a groove pressed into the circumference which fits into a sort of heart shaped strip mounted in alignment on the fuselage. The cowling fits over this, or "pops" on in the case of a full cowling like a Pup or N.17, and is clamped with the cable. A turnbuckle is used to tighten it so that the cowling can't come off. The turnbuckle was often located at the lower longeron position ie about 4:00 to 4:30.

Thanks guys, I understand how it works now. With the Morane Saulnier it is a partial cowl - the cable does not fit into a groove, rather it is threaded through raised 'eyelets or brackets' on a band at the rear of the cowl, and is tightened by turnbuckles up near the gun barrel at the 11:00 and 1:00 position. No outer groove on the circumference like the sopwiths and fokkers - but I would imagine there is some kind of V or U-shaped groove/channel in the fuselage and a mating equivalent on the underside of the cowl.

On my model there is a plywood disk, secured to the metal cowl - it serves as a cowl former and it is secured to the firewall with 4 or 5 allen head bolts and blind nuts. The cowl retaining cables and turnbuckles will not be functional.

Nice cowl Don! Did you do all the riveting detail and how did you press in that cable groove? Or maybe it came with groove already stamped in as from BUSA or GTM?

Cheers,
Bri




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RE: 1/4 scale Morane Saulnier Type N French Scout - 2/26/2013 5:21 PM   
TFF


 

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Status: offline 		On the Sopwith's, there is a tube, the outside of the engine mount, that has the outside channeled. the aft metal skin and the cowl lock in the grove and then the cable is tightened.

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