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Looking for carbs... - 2/19/2012 5:11 PM   
1QwkSport2.5r



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Status: offline 		I've been searching around trying to find a pair of carbs for my pair of K&B Sportster .65 engines. I really dont want to have to drop $100 in new carbs if I dont have to, so I'm trying to find a couple used ones that will fit. If there was a Super Tigre carb that would fit, I'd use it though I'm not opposed to others. The carb from an S90K has a smaller base on it than the K&B .65 carb is by almost .030". The base is .622" and the venturi is about .325".

The carbs that came with the engines are the old style non-remote NV. I think the carb itself is probably good, but the fault lies in either the barrel itself, or the idle mixture disk. Randy at Mecoa said replacing the idle mixture disk might cure the trouble, but it may not. The only other part that could be faulty is the orifice in the barrel. The cost of the barrel and idle disk is the same price as a whole carb w/ remote needle from K&B and who knows if its really in-stock or not....

If anyone has any pictures of a idle mixture disk from a vintage .65, please post it. I wouldnt mind comparing what mine look like to a vintage engine that runs right.

I've probably beat this dead horse too long and should have just bought new carbs but I've drug my feet because I dont have a lot of money.. (go figure..)

Anyway, thanks for reading.

< Message edited by 1QwkSport2.5r -- 2/19/2012 5:40 PM >

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RE: Looking for carbs... - 2/19/2012 7:23 PM   
spaceworm


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r

I've been searching around trying to find a pair of carbs for my pair of K&B Sportster .65 engines. I really dont want to have to drop $100 in new carbs if I dont have to, so I'm trying to find a couple used ones that will fit. If there was a Super Tigre carb that would fit, I'd use it though I'm not opposed to others. The carb from an S90K has a smaller base on it than the K&B .65 carb is by almost .030''. The base is .622'' and the venturi is about .325''.

The carbs that came with the engines are the old style non-remote NV. I think the carb itself is probably good, but the fault lies in either the barrel itself, or the idle mixture disk. Randy at Mecoa said replacing the idle mixture disk might cure the trouble, but it may not. The only other part that could be faulty is the orifice in the barrel. The cost of the barrel and idle disk is the same price as a whole carb w/ remote needle from K&B and who knows if its really in-stock or not....

If anyone has any pictures of a idle mixture disk from a vintage .65, please post it. I wouldnt mind comparing what mine look like to a vintage engine that runs right.

I've probably beat this dead horse too long and should have just bought new carbs but I've drug my feet because I dont have a lot of money.. (go figure..)

Anyway, thanks for reading.




If the carbs you have are from the .65s used for the military drones, they will never work right. However, maybe someone knows how to fix them. A search for K&B .65 might pull up a thread on how to fix them. Another thing is the front "bushing" or lack thereof. If it leaks a lot, maybe even a new carb won't fix the problem, whtaever that is as you have not described the problem you are having with your current setup

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RE: Looking for carbs... - 2/19/2012 7:53 PM   
1QwkSport2.5r



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quote:

ORIGINAL: spaceworm

.
quote:

ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r

I've been searching around trying to find a pair of carbs for my pair of K&B Sportster .65 engines. I really dont want to have to drop $100 in new carbs if I dont have to, so I'm trying to find a couple used ones that will fit. If there was a Super Tigre carb that would fit, I'd use it though I'm not opposed to others. The carb from an S90K has a smaller base on it than the K&B .65 carb is by almost .030''. The base is .622'' and the venturi is about .325''.

The carbs that came with the engines are the old style non-remote NV. I think the carb itself is probably good, but the fault lies in either the barrel itself, or the idle mixture disk. Randy at Mecoa said replacing the idle mixture disk might cure the trouble, but it may not. The only other part that could be faulty is the orifice in the barrel. The cost of the barrel and idle disk is the same price as a whole carb w/ remote needle from K&B and who knows if its really in-stock or not....

If anyone has any pictures of a idle mixture disk from a vintage .65, please post it. I wouldnt mind comparing what mine look like to a vintage engine that runs right.

I've probably beat this dead horse too long and should have just bought new carbs but I've drug my feet because I dont have a lot of money.. (go figure..)

Anyway, thanks for reading.




If the carbs you have are from the .65s used for the military drones, they will never work right. However, maybe someone knows how to fix them. A search for K&B .65 might pull up a thread on how to fix them. Another thing is the front ''bushing'' or lack thereof. If it leaks a lot, maybe even a new carb won't fix the problem, whtaever that is as you have not described the problem you are having with your current setup

I can dig through the threads and find the ones I commented in with regard to the issues the drone engines have. The problem is an over-rich idle and midrange. So rich in fact, that it will not idle more than a few seconds before it quits. It will run WOT and turns decent rpm, but will not idle or throttle in the midrange for poo. This is all with the idle disk in the full lean position using the eccentric screw. If I remove the eccentric screw and rotate the idle disk leaner, it runs better but it sounds like its running a tad lean in the high end. I worry that by removing the eccentric screw it creates an air leak. In previous tests, I didnt have the hole plugged. Next time I do testing with the engine, I'll try it with the hole plugged with some silicone sealant.

From my correspondence to Randy at Mecoa, he didnt have a lot of input because he wasnt around when K&B was sending these engines to the military. There was a spec'd rpm they needed to run, and beyond that he didnt have a specific number or what was different in the drones vs. the regular sportsters. He said a new idle disk might fix the rich idle/midrange, but he wasnt sure. 1 of my .65's is still un-run, the other was new when I got it. I have ran about 1-1.5 gallons through the engine, with the first 3-4 quarts being SIG 5-15% nitro, 20% oil at a 50/50 cas/syn blend. All the rest was my homebrew 5% nitro/20% all castor. The bushing that supports the crankshaft hasnt wore much at all - I can still see crosshatching in the bore of the bushing.

The regular Sportster .65 engines all throttle fine whether its got a RNV or if the NV is on the carb body.

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RE: Looking for carbs... - 2/20/2012 2:56 AM   
spaceworm


 

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Status: offline 		Ok, it would have helped if you had just continued that thread, or at least referenced it. Good luck.

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RE: Looking for carbs... - 2/20/2012 3:12 AM   
1QwkSport2.5r



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ORIGINAL: spaceworm

Ok, it would have helped if you had just continued that thread, or at least referenced it. Good luck.

With all the problems I've encountered with errors and such on this forum, I didnt want to spend the entire day searching. sorry. I'll add links to those threads I was referring to.

edit: adding thread links.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10050143/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10766808/tm.htm

If someone can tell me if a new idle disk will clear the problem up, I'll just get 2 idle disks. But since I don't know if this is going to fix the problem for sure, I dont want to waste $30 just yet. I'd rather spend $40 on a pair of used carbs and know they'll work than spend $30 and hope it works.

This is probably a waste of time anyway since nobody runs these engines anymore that I know of. I'm kinda kooky in that I actually want to put both of my sportster .65's on a twin-engine something....

< Message edited by 1QwkSport2.5r -- 2/20/2012 3:36 AM >

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RE: Looking for carbs... - 2/20/2012 10:56 AM   
pe reivers



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RE: Looking for carbs... - 2/20/2012 1:21 PM   
Hobbsy



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Status: online 		Hang in there Pe', a fix is being worked on but this is a huge site and a quick fix is not the answer.

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RE: Looking for carbs... - 2/20/2012 1:25 PM   
Hobbsy



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Status: online 		Q, I know you've done this but I'll mention it anyway. I had trouble with my K&B 1.00 a few years ago, it turned out that when I made a new throttle lever for it I got the barrel inverted which inverted the spraybar. I have an old .65 I'll check the carb out, I am going to trade the engine in at Fox, I don't think they'll care what carb I send with it. The original lever on the 1.00 was too close to the engine.

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RE: Looking for carbs... - 2/20/2012 2:27 PM   
pe reivers



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Hang in there Pe', a fix is being worked on but this is a huge site and a quick fix is not the answer.



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RE: Looking for carbs... - 2/20/2012 3:31 PM   
earlwb


 

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Status: offline 		Those military drone engine carbs were deliberately butchered like that to discourage thievery and help make the engines more identifiable for the Feds to arrest and charge people for having them at the time. Remember the military drones and their parts are still US Government property. They never relinquished their ownership of these things. But they seldom go after the little people as it isn't worth their effort since it costs so much to do so.
Anyway the government had certain specs for the engines to perform at and K&B set them up for that. I am not even certain that one could modify or remachine the carbs to work. But maybe if you machined your own throttle barrels for them you might get the carbs to work.

You really need to find new carbs, but unforunately new carbs are relatively more expensive than maybe the engines are worth as well. Your best bet is to look for used carbs. But you would have to be patient and grab onto them as something pops up that is usable. But if you really are going to use the engines for something, then buying new carbs is the way to go, especially for a twin engine plane, as you do not want problems. The cost for the engines is minor compared to the overall plane cost.

Heck it would be pretty cool to machine a flange adapter for them and bolt on a couple of Fox carbs onto them.

But you could pretty much use any carb you wanted by just making an adapter for it to fit OK.


Here are some Perry carbs that look to be about the right size needed. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Perry-Large-Carburetor-K-B-61-HB-61-1300-NIB-/290670055252?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43ad490f54
these Perry carbs for a Rossie engine look promising, but maybe you would have to take a little off the throat to get them to fit, but the price is good: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PERRY-CARBURETOR-ROSSI-60-ID-312-OD-625-LARGE-912-/190583468820?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c5fa8f314



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RE: Looking for carbs... - 2/20/2012 4:25 PM   
wcmorrison



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Status: offline 		Nobody has mentioned MECOA who still sells the K&B line.  They have carbs and even a forum on how to for their engine brands.  Check out www.mecoa.com  Might find what you want, might even get you some used parts as they have an engine trade in program too.  I know they sell Kavan carbs but they are probably pricey.  Perry sells carbs to, also a little bit expensive.  Both are similar designs as the K&B carbs.

Good luck.

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RE: Looking for carbs... - 2/21/2012 2:07 AM   
plaurence


 

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Status: offline 		Does anyone have a source for the O.S. .40 FP needle assembly?

thanks 

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RE: Looking for carbs... - 2/21/2012 2:44 AM   
1QwkSport2.5r



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Q, I know you've done this but I'll mention it anyway. I had trouble with my K&B 1.00 a few years ago, it turned out that when I made a new throttle lever for it I got the barrel inverted which inverted the spraybar. I have an old .65 I'll check the carb out, I am going to trade the engine in at Fox, I don't think they'll care what carb I send with it. The original lever on the 1.00 was too close to the engine.

The carb is assembled properly, the malfunction is in either the barrel/outer spraybar tube and/or the idle disk/inner spraybar. There is a cats eye cutout in the idle disk that matches with a round hole in the outer spraybar tube. One of the two holes in the spraybar is in the wrong spot.

quote:

ORIGINAL: earlwb

Those military drone engine carbs were deliberately butchered like that to discourage thievery and help make the engines more identifiable for the Feds to arrest and charge people for having them at the time. Remember the military drones and their parts are still US Government property. They never relinquished their ownership of these things. But they seldom go after the little people as it isn't worth their effort since it costs so much to do so.
Anyway the government had certain specs for the engines to perform at and K&B set them up for that. I am not even certain that one could modify or remachine the carbs to work. But maybe if you machined your own throttle barrels for them you might get the carbs to work.

You really need to find new carbs, but unforunately new carbs are relatively more expensive than maybe the engines are worth as well. Your best bet is to look for used carbs. But you would have to be patient and grab onto them as something pops up that is usable. But if you really are going to use the engines for something, then buying new carbs is the way to go, especially for a twin engine plane, as you do not want problems. The cost for the engines is minor compared to the overall plane cost.

Heck it would be pretty cool to machine a flange adapter for them and bolt on a couple of Fox carbs onto them.

But you could pretty much use any carb you wanted by just making an adapter for it to fit OK.


Here are some Perry carbs that look to be about the right size needed. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Perry-Large-Carburetor-K-B-61-HB-61-1300-NIB-/290670055252?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43ad490f54
these Perry carbs for a Rossie engine look promising, but maybe you would have to take a little off the throat to get them to fit, but the price is good: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PERRY-CARBURETOR-ROSSI-60-ID-312-OD-625-LARGE-912-/190583468820?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c5fa8f314



I've talked to Randy at Mecoa, and I know Perry makes a carb that fits (#4600). The Perry is $47 each plus shipping, the K&B carb is close to $40 each plus shipping. I dont have an issue with their pricing, I just dont think I should need to shell out that much money to get these engines running right. Worst case scenario, I buy new. For now, I'll see if anything used comes about.

If Super Tigre made a carb that fit, I'd use that. I like the ST carbs. The carb on my S90K has a .590" neck on it, .032" smaller. If I had a lathe, I could mill a sleeve.. Alas, I haven't a lathe in my shop.

And just to put it on record - Randy at Mecoa more or less accused me of stealing these engines from the government. The guy I got them from is on active duty in the Army National Guard (on deployment to Kuwait). When Randy ranted on me (on the forum) about being a "thief", I asked my buddy if these were "stolen" or what the story was as I didnt want the feds looking for me, nor be called a thief. My buddy told me that his superior told him to get rid of them as the program that used them was over. He told me there are no legal implications to having them (now).

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RE: Looking for carbs... - 2/21/2012 4:09 AM   
earlwb


 

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Status: offline 		The Rossi carbs I mentioned above are $24 each. They look like they either fit or are slightly oversized for the hole in the intake on the engine. It would be easier to work them down smaller in size.





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RE: Looking for carbs... - 2/21/2012 4:24 AM   
1QwkSport2.5r



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ORIGINAL: earlwb

The Rossi carbs I mentioned above are $24 each. They look like they either fit or are slightly oversized for the hole in the intake on the engine. It would be easier to work them down smaller in size.





I will take a closer look at it tomorrow. I worked a 13hr day today and didnt look at the Rossi one very closely. The venturi is a little smaller than my stock K&B carb, but the neck size is about right. My caliper might be off just a little - .622-.625" isnt much of a difference.

Anyway, I have the day off tomorrow so I'll be doing some hunting around tomorrow.

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RE: Looking for carbs... - 2/21/2012 2:48 PM   
turbo.gst


 

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Status: offline 		You could by one of those Rossi carbs and use the base off your Drone carb. The base on the Sportster .65 is HUGE. Cut off the base and use it as a sleeve. You wouldn't need a lathe for that operation. BUT the drone carb is toast after that. Just a thought.....but cheaper than buying the idle disc assy from Mecoa.

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RE: Looking for carbs... - 2/21/2012 4:01 PM   
1QwkSport2.5r



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ORIGINAL: turbo.gst

You could by one of those Rossi carbs and use the base off your Drone carb. The base on the Sportster .65 is HUGE. Cut off the base and use it as a sleeve. You wouldn't need a lathe for that operation. BUT the drone carb is toast after that. Just a thought.....but cheaper than buying the idle disc assy from Mecoa.

The idle disk is $14 or so, and the barrel comes with the carb body and thats like $23. The Rossi carb Earl listed has a .625" base, and my sportster's (yes, its huge) base is .622 as I measured it. I would think a little 400 grit sandpaper on the bottom of the Rossi would take off enough to make it fit nicely. I've got a guy with a stockpile of NOS K&B parts.. hoping he might have some original/vintage K&B carbs that work...



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RE: Looking for carbs... - 2/21/2012 4:35 PM   
turbo.gst


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks, I think I'm going to get a Rossi carb to play with on my Sportster. Nevermind! I just noticed that perry carb is a pump carb. Not sure I want to pump a Sportster!

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RE: Looking for carbs... - 2/21/2012 4:43 PM   
1QwkSport2.5r



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ORIGINAL: turbo.gst

Thanks, I think I'm going to get a Rossi carb to play with on my Sportster.

Here's a link to a (large) picture of my barrel and spraybar in my sportster's stock carb.. Does yours look like this?
http://s153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/1QwkRusty2pt5R/?action=view¤t=IMG_0189-1.jpg

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RE: Looking for carbs... - 2/21/2012 4:54 PM   
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RE: Looking for carbs... - 2/21/2012 5:05 PM   
Hobbsy



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Status: online 		Here's the one I have, it ain't real purty but it works.

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RE: Looking for carbs... - 2/21/2012 5:17 PM   
1QwkSport2.5r



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Here's the one I have, it ain't real purty but it works.

Mine looks nearly identical to yours, its the guts that are different amongst the sportster variants.

Oddly enough, I think the 20, 28, and 45 all use the same carb. I think the sportster .65 gets its own carb; of which I think the base is ridiculously large. Must have something to do with the shape of the venturi and fuel mixture velocity or something..

Sometimes I wish I was an engineer. (I also wish I knew what I wanted to be when I grow up..lol)

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RE: Looking for carbs... - 2/21/2012 5:22 PM   
airraptor


 

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Status: offline 		go to a swap meet and buy some used engines for 10 bucks.

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RE: Looking for carbs... - 2/21/2012 6:08 PM   
1QwkSport2.5r



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go to a swap meet and buy some used engines for 10 bucks.

I've got plans to go to one in May actually.

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RE: Looking for carbs... - 2/21/2012 7:16 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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The stock carb works as well or better than the Perry carb.  They make the drone engines out of a lot of rejected parts so it should be good. 

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