Boat buoyancy – What do you use currently and Why?

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Boat buoyancy – What do you use currently and Why? - 2/24/2012 7:08 PM

Craig Dicko

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Hi folks

Do you use pool noodles?
Bubble film?
Bicycle inner tubes sealed off at their ends and pumped up as required to fill the void?
Expanding foam one part from an aerosol can?
Expanding foam 2 part catalytic mix?

Or other methods??

For me personally I have tried all of the above. My favourite remains the 2 part catalytic marine grade foam for the following reasons:

(1) I have never had issues with it absorbing water.

(2) It sets quickly throughout the entire section unlike the aerosol one part stuff.

(3) It adds a lot of strength to the hull.

(4) It is very easy to use provided that with a big section the foam is applied via several mixes.

I have started the build of my new Prestwich Thunder and these images show the front bulkhead fitted and now foamed out ready for cleaning up.

Do please let me know what you use for reliable boat buoyancy and why you consider it your best option.

Cheers

Craig

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RE: Boat buoyancy – What do you use currently and Why? - 2/24/2012 7:49 PM

BH_Trade

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By far the most popular flotation I've seen (and use myself) is pool noodles. They are cheap, come in a multitude of colors, and can be cut to almost any size using a serrated knife on a cutting board. Oh, and they are infinitely easier to remove vs 2 part expanding foams!

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RE: Boat buoyancy – What do you use currently and Why? - 2/24/2012 8:27 PM

qdemon

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Hi Craig
always used pool noodles with no problem easy removable for cleaning, What happerns when you split the seam now youve filled it with expanding Muck and added a bulk head major rebuild job no thanks !

Bob.

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RE: Boat buoyancy – What do you use currently and Why? - 2/24/2012 9:32 PM

Craig Dicko

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Thanks for your replies so far.....

I agree that pool noodles are cheap and in a multitude of colours. And easy to remove.

However, with 2 part foam there is of course no need to remove the buoyancy. It lasts the life of the boat sealed in and secure and unlike pool noodles it offers maximum buoyancy filling all areas that might otherwise fill with water.

Bob

You asked what happens when you “split the seam”.

With 2 part foam I have never “split the seam”. Have the hull/deck joint prior reinforced with epoxy/fibre and I am confident that in a crash situation that joint will probably be the least to fail.

With 2 part foam I have never had any re-build job as the boats done that way have been very robust. If I do split the seam so to speak I will update you.

Bob, the “Expanding muck + bulkhead etc” as you put it, for me personally means quite the opposite of a major “Rebuild Job”. For me that set up means an unlikely failure and I like to prevent the need for any rebuilding at source.

I appreciate your comments so far guys and it is good to debate this topic.

Cheers

Craig

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RE: Boat buoyancy – What do you use currently and Why? - 2/25/2012 1:59 AM

Nightow1

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Another great one is the black foam tube used in plumbing. I use to work as a plumber and they were thrown away most of the time. What I'm talking about for those of you who dont know, if you look at most cooper pipes or hot water heaters the black foam tubing the use to wrap them. It's real cheep like 25 cents for a 2' section. a lot of times if you go to a mom and pop plumber they will most likely give them to you.

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RE: Boat buoyancy – What do you use currently and Why? - 2/25/2012 2:49 AM

Johnnysplits

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I use pool noodles from the bulkhead forward, from the bulkhead rearward, I line the bottom and sides with sleeping bag matting. Makes for clean look and provides plenty of flotation. I was advised years ago NOT to use the 2 part foam, spray foam insulation, or the black pipe insulation because they all absorb water to a degree. I've had my boat upside down and half underwater for 30 to 45 minutes at a time retrieving it and the last thing I wanted to worry about is having to replace that foam.

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RE: Boat buoyancy – What do you use currently and Why? - 2/25/2012 5:05 AM

Ron Olson

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Pool noodles! Like was said above, cheap and in a variety of shapes and colors. After time, all will absorb water, fuel and oil so it'll add more unwanted weight. With the cost of hulls I sure don't want to have to replace one because of it expanding and blowing it apart from 2-part or the spray can foam.

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RE: Boat buoyancy – What do you use currently and Why? - 2/25/2012 8:52 AM

martno1fan

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Poole noodles are great for in the sides of boats but up front i now us left over wine bags the type you get in the boxed wine

,theyre light and easy to inflate another good one are kids arm bands

.Expanding foam is a bad idea as it never stops expanding and more often than not will blow the seams apart over time or at the very least distort the hull seen this many times.
Mart

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RE: Boat buoyancy – What do you use currently and Why? - 2/25/2012 9:42 AM

Justaddwata

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2 part foam (and spray foam) can give some benefits like increasing the rigidity of the hull etc but as mentioned above - it can ruin a hull very easily. The air in the cell structure can expand on a hot day and distort or damage the hull. Similarly it can pull pieces and warp surfaces too (as can be seen in the bow of this boat - done by a previous owner). I have used the foam in conjunction with other flotation like 2 liter soda bottles to bond them in place which is usually lighter than 100% foam and while it does not fully fill the void it also has not distorted any hull to date.

Personally I much rather pool noodles - especially in areas where the flotation will be visible as it is more attractive and easily removed to afford additional access. 2 part has its place but IMO it is more for limited space or maximum buoyancy applications.

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RE: Boat buoyancy – What do you use currently and Why? - 2/25/2012 7:17 PM

mistycreekboats

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Andy (AC Boats) and I had a discussion on this - he said his boats are designed true bottoms and the worst thing you can do he said was to fiberglass anything in his hulls, we talked about foam and he said the pressure will sooner or later distort hull - I don't even glass in tubes anymore I use a bracket and clamp

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RE: Boat buoyancy – What do you use currently and Why? - 2/25/2012 10:10 PM

MrMikeG

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Andy should know, he used to offer 2 part foam flotation as an option!

I mostly use pool noodles but there are ways to use 2 part foam safely.
1. on cowls, no seams to burst and it will never "fall off"
2. In the hull where is can safely expand in 3D and will not sit in water for hours, like a 2" bead along the seam where it doesn't touch the deck or the bottom.

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RE: Boat buoyancy – What do you use currently and Why? - 2/25/2012 10:38 PM

martno1fan

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Rails should be glassed in while in the mould iff possible or yes it can distort the hull mate,that said if the hulls built right it shouldnt really distort its all in the layup.
Mart

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RE: Boat buoyancy – What do you use currently and Why? - 2/25/2012 10:55 PM

HendricX

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I'm reading a lot of MIS-information here ! !

So I'll open a can of worms here .....

2 Part buoyancy foam of the good/real kind (like used in canoo's and sailing boats)

can be used without doubt (I use it in my FSR-V's for over 40 years) IF :

Heat the 2 parts in a bucked of hot (60ºC) water , half hour before use.

Heat up the hull to the same degr. ... and keep it that way for 2 hours.

Cover the bulkhead with only a very light (30gr/m² cloth) layer , and set the bulkhead with rtv (not epoxy)

Ohhhhh .. and using rtv to 'glue' your stringers in (without any glass-cloth/epoxy) ,
will make your hull much more silent. :-)

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RE: Boat buoyancy – What do you use currently and Why? - 2/26/2012 12:32 AM

Craig Dicko

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Thanks for your further comments. I guess that the key thing is that the chosen system works for the person using it. Pool noodles certainly appear popular today.

I am pleased though that I am not the only one that endorses the 2 part quality marine grade foam.

I think however that a clear distinction needs to be made between this type of foam and the aerosol or single part spray foam. Their properties are very different especially during the cure process.

2 part foam stops expanding shortly before it hardens and it cures all the way through as you would expect with such a mix. And it gets quite warm during the exothermic reaction. With the stuff I used that process took about 20 minutes after 30 seconds mixing time.

The aerosol one part spray foam appears to set from the outside in (aided with moisture). With large applications (say filling the bow of a boat) the inner core can indeed remain liquid (or a sticky mess) failing to expand and set. I can understand how this could possibly give rise to further unwanted expansion over time. For that reason I will not use this type of foam as it is too unpredictable.

A quality 2 part foam is in my opinion very predictable and provided that vent holes are available and the application done with care, there should be no reason to have a split or deformed hull.

The 2 part foam appears to have a much tougher cell structure than the aerosol version and I’ve never had any issues with sunlight on the deck causing any expansion due to heat.

Concerns have been raised about water ingress into the cell structure. I fail to see how that can be an issue if the foam is completely hidden inside a water proof enclosure (i.e. hull and sealed bulkhead). The 2 part foam that I use claims that it will not absorb water unless the cells are crushed and damaged. So even if there was a tiny hole in the hull I would think it unlikely in the extreme for this to be an issue.

Cheers

Craig

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RE: Boat buoyancy – What do you use currently and Why? - 2/26/2012 12:52 AM

tapkoote

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the high frequency vibration will break down the cell walls
had it happen
tap

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RE: Boat buoyancy – What do you use currently and Why? - 2/26/2012 1:33 AM

mistycreekboats

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So Hendrick ......... it;s what a few hour job to install bulk head - heat materials - heat boat - keep boat heated - spend how much on this canoe foam $$$$ ?? and then it / install bulkhead .........

mmmmmm

I just buy a AC with bulkhead preinstalled and slide 3 pool noodles in .........

one of biggest points being missed here is

There is more to pool noodles if u use them to fine tune boat - (some outside the box thinking) here's what Andy taught me

- I set boat up 'light' on front most times
- I use cut pool noodles with weight inside noodle at a set point near front of boat - not huge just few onces
- if boat wants to fly - I slide noodles out on sides and install ones with same weight futher forward - diff color has diff weight position
- if bow is down I remove ones with weight and install noodles with nothing

- if I want to check rpm I replace noodle with one with tach in it (cut out and zip tied inside) and use in couple boats and take out when not needed.
- GPS same thing I attach to noodle and slide in back corner of boat

This way I can run my Razor in almost anything (glass smooth or chop) and fine tune with a simple noodle swap

And once in a while I pull everything out and clean inside and look for seperation etc. pretty hard to do with bulhead but real hard to do with foam in.

JMO don't throw nothin' at me Hendrick or Craig .. Lol

if u see some of my ;dunk's" u see what I like to look to see if still in one piece inside :::::ha ha

http://youtu.be/Sx1xd2Wuah4

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RE: Boat buoyancy – What do you use currently and Why? - 2/26/2012 1:46 AM

HendricX

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It's just all a matter of choise , and your own preference.

European FSR-V endurance racing is sometimes 'rubbing & racing' ,
like dodgem-cars on a fair-ground , so I like my hulls to be 'fool-proof' ... ha ha
(If you believe others .. that does not help much in my case)

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RE: Boat buoyancy – What do you use currently and Why? - 2/26/2012 2:06 AM

mistycreekboats

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No I just like noodles .......... I can see the foam for racing ..... but I'm just a sport guy ....... I might race the odd beaver float plane or my son's but if they hit my boats they have to walk home
One of my twins had it ... no room for anything else
http://youtu.be/Yp6AQXOrLCc

so I'm good ...

Na Hendrick just a diff approach if u use noodles ........ both have their place ...........

besides I going blind today from fitting these little hinges some one sent me .............

< Message edited by mistycreekboats -- 2/26/2012 3:57 AM >

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RE: Boat buoyancy – What do you use currently and Why? - 2/27/2012 3:25 AM

HendricX

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Well .. two hinges = 12 screws even smaller as your Imperial 1/16" .

You'll need a steady hand and maybe jewellers-lenses.

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