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RE: Bigger is better than yours. - 3/4/2012 5:42 PM

abufletcher

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ORIGINAL: 378
I would be one of the guys admiring the 1/7th scale bird, but I would be the one flying the 40% version.

I guess I consider myself a modeler first and a flier second. In terms of "time spent" the reality is that I spend at least 20 (and possibly 50) hours building for every hour in the air...and I feel like I fly as often as I can. But the fact is, when it rains, I can build; when it's dark, I can build. I can even build, when I'm sick.

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RE: Bigger is better than yours. - 3/4/2012 5:46 PM

David Bathe

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I couldn't think of building a scale model, without including the scaling.

Why would anyone bother... certainly not because of the flying qualities.

I have 2x 1/4th -scale models (big enough to scale with bad eyes/small enough to transport) sitting complete in the hanger ready for detailing, sure I could finish 'em of quickly, rust to the field to fly and discover... yeap they fly just (in F3a terms) dreadful. Might as well scale them up... at least that way you can join in a scale comp when the opportunity arrises and working on your scale flying/presentation. Try to take the thing seriously.

Got to say in defense if the real big though, some of the Euro 1/3rd-1/2 scale (john Holms) models are simply magnificent. Featuring immaculate detailing... plus a buss and a 4 man crew.

It the latter that turns me off. Standing O' to those that can handle it.

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RE: Bigger is better than yours. - 3/4/2012 6:36 PM

rgburrill

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You know what, you have a heck of a lot of people watching Adam Sandler movies too despite his 11 or 12 razzies. Personal taste is "right" to the person looking - no one else matters.

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RE: Bigger is better than yours. - 3/4/2012 6:40 PM

rgburrill

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Bathe

I couldn't think of building a scale model, without including the scaling.
Why would anyone bother... certainly not because of the flying qualities.
I have 2x 1/4th -scale models (big enough to scale with bad eyes/small enough to transport) sitting complete in the hanger ready for detailing, sure I could finish 'em of quickly, rust to the field to fly and discover... yeap they fly just (in F3a terms) dreadful. Might as well scale them up... at least that way you can join in a scale comp when the opportunity arrises and working on your scale flying/presentation. Try to take the thing seriously.

Got to say in defense if the real big though, some of the Euro 1/3rd-1/2 scale (john Holms) models are simply magnificent. Featuring immaculate detailing... plus a buss and a 4 man crew.
It the latter that turns me off. Standing O' to those that can handle it.

Why would anyone bohter? Because it feels good. I am building an SV-4 Stampe but I'll be damned if I'm going to put that g-d awful early European marking on the wing! And many of us want our planes visible and identifiable to us on the ground whereas many warbirds are painted to be somewhat invisible to those on the ground.

In reality, the number of us who are out to impress a bunch of judges is quite limited.

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RE: Bigger is better than yours. - 3/4/2012 6:42 PM

378

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quote:

ORIGINAL: abufletcher

quote:

ORIGINAL: 378
I would be one of the guys admiring the 1/7th scale bird, but I would be the one flying the 40% version.

I guess I consider myself a modeler first and a flier second. In terms of ''time spent'' the reality is that I spend at least 20 (and possibly 50) hours building for every hour in the air...and I feel like I fly as often as I can. But the fact is, when it rains, I can build; when it's dark, I can build. I can even build, when I'm sick.

A little rain or darkness never stops me. I run my RCs 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, so long as I won't get struck by lightning or KO'd by a hailstone while doing so. My cars all have headlights, and everything gets waterproofed electronics. A little weather isn't going to keep me away from my hobbies!

Probably for the best that I don't focus on scale detail. I do appreciate and enjoy the effort put into making them, but I couldn't bring myself to build one.

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RE: Bigger is better than yours. - 3/4/2012 7:37 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 378

I would be one of the guys admiring the 1/7th scale bird, but I would be the one flying the 40% version. Scale detail is nice, I absolutely adore small replicas of engines that actually run, but I build my planes to fly, and I don't want to put thousands of man hours into machining a picture perfect, running scale radial only to auger it into the tarmac on the third flight. I'd rather risk a $250 DLE 30.

That's what makes this Hobby/Sport so great, So many different aspects to modeling. I always say "If you can't find something you like in this Hobby ... Go buy a Big Sail Boat, Lawn Chair, and a couple of Six pacs". When ya sober up go look for your Sail boat. Don't ridacule the way someone else enjoys the Hobby. Especially if you, or they don't have the same skills or likes and dislikes. Except for "Lectrics" he he he Now I'm in Trouble should head my own advice I spose.

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RE: Bigger is better than yours. - 3/4/2012 7:52 PM

Chad Veich

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Some of you guys need to go back and read the original post as many of the replies here have nothing to do with the question raised by AW. The question was why does a big, poorly built model get more attention than a small, well built one?

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RE: Bigger is better than yours. - 3/4/2012 8:33 PM

cubcrasher

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Some time back I saw aguy at the field get beaten out buy a guy that had an arf, go figure that one.

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RE: Bigger is better than yours. - 3/4/2012 11:20 PM

rgburrill

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad Veich

Some of you guys need to go back and read the original post as many of the replies here have nothing to do with the question raised by AW. The question was why does a big, poorly built model get more attention than a small, well built one?

He also stated "it ceratainly isn't right" and that's where a lot of people disagree.

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RE: Bigger is better than yours. - 3/5/2012 12:39 AM

HoundDog

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"SIZE Does Matter"

Unless the "LITTLE ONE" is yours.

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RE: Bigger is better than yours. - 3/5/2012 1:04 AM

Rob2160

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AmishWarlord

"Quantity has a quality all its own"

In the case of quantity of mass, why does "Big" trump quality for the average modeler?

Lets say you have two guys show up at the field with Monocoupes.

One guy has a 1/7th scale 54" version of a 90A done in museum scale quality. Every minute detail seems to be on the model including a working Lambert R-266 5-Cylinder radial engine.

The other guy has brought a 40% scale 153" poorly built sport scale Monocoupe. This model is covered in Monokote and you can clearly see the single cylinder gas engine in the open cowl.

The 40% one will constantly have 30 guys around it asking questions and saying how great it is, wile the 54" one will barely gets second glance.

I guess that's just the way it is, but it certainly isn't right.

]

Because we are Guys, and size DOES matter...

Women will tell you it doesn't.. but I don't beleive them.

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RE: Bigger is better than yours. - 3/5/2012 1:06 AM

Rob2160

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HoundDog

"SIZE Does Matter"
Unless the "LITTLE ONE" is yours.

Dang!, you beat me too it..

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RE: Bigger is better than yours. - 3/5/2012 1:09 AM

GerKonig

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A couple of decades back, I remember 60 sized scale warplanes. Oh yeah, and it was not a good memory. Of course if you plan to build a sculpture, or a static thing small is OK... But those models were really lousy...

Talk about a narrow envelope: Max speed 80 mph, stalling speed 78 mph. Retracts lasted one or 2 landings (on grass, we only had grass here). Warplanes were known by their "old" name: LED SLEDS

Then they grew, up to 80 inches, and you saw models that actually were not a disaster in the air. And they kept growing... and they flew better:-)

Now, as far as us being more attracted to a bigger model than a smaller one. Try this, put a RC model DVIII next to Kermit Weeks' full size. Or any model next to the real thing. We will go straight to the full size. Notice those that will go for the model first: Only a handful, those are the die hard rc scale nut cases.

I think that the statement is true, we will go to the bigger model first, but then we will also look at the smaller one. We cannot help it. We are modellers, we are suckers for some things (this is one). They attract us. Did anyone try NOT to look up when you hear a warplane go by? Were you able to? I must confess I tried to ignore the warplane, but it did not work...

Gerry

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RE: Bigger is better than yours. - 3/5/2012 1:17 AM

fred985

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i belonged to aclub a few years ago. one guy built a topflite 60 corsair and never shaped any leading or trailing edges at all. it was his first build and he learned how to fly it after lots of training on the box. the damn thing flew just as nice as the other guy who built the same kit properly. both of them had heaps of fun. my point is that it dont mean a crab apple red rabid rats ass what anyone else thinks as long as you are happy and having fun. nobody ever thinks my planes are masterpieces cause they arent. a ping-pong-ball with a funny face by magic markers make the perfect pilot,,,or a few cartoon charecters cleardoped to the inside of the windows make great pilots. have fun.

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RE: Bigger is better than yours. - 3/5/2012 3:47 AM

DISCUS54

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Good point Fred. Unless your asking the model to be judged...i.e. a contest, then who really cares. I've had highly detailed models at the field that hardly got a second look...I didn't take it personally (it just wasn't important to the guys present). When the effort is recognized then it makes you feel good to know that someone else has been there and appreciates the outcome...call it mutual respect. This hobby is to be enjoyed, so if your having fun then who cares how "perfect" your model is to someone else...it is not theirs. One thing to consider though: it is always easier to sell a well assembled and detailed model then one that is not, and that can come in handy when your funding that new project.

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RE: Bigger is better than yours. - 3/5/2012 4:32 AM

sebo

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Right on........me too........Big ones are a pain but I still enjoy them and the cockpits have much to be desired....just a pilot bust glued in place..
I see lots of stuff missing or built that isn't scale on my airplanes, but who can see this when it is in the air??
I could never win a beauty contest.

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RE: Bigger is better than yours. - 3/5/2012 4:38 AM

brenthampton79

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I personally like the smaller models by today's standards. I don't really care for models bigger than a 60 size plane, I have a 1/4 scale Giles which is like 72" span and hardly ever fly it and have no drive to get anything bigger really. I like the dle 20 in my 60 size extra but have no desire to go bigger as far as a gasser. I'm planning on finishing my tf p-51b gold edition model I bought as a kid this winter and do all the scale things I can to it. I beleive some have it right here though it's your hobby enjoy it how you want to. However I think the large scale stuff is going to run it's coarse and we will get back to the 40-60 size planes again.

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RE: Bigger is better than yours. - 3/5/2012 4:41 AM

abufletcher

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[QUOTE=abufletcher;20936897]In the end, anyone who gets beat by an ARF (of any quality) has only himself to blame.[/QUOTE]

To say this in another way, scratch-builders have traditionall led kit-builders, and kit-builders in the past have usually led ARFs. Now ARFs have progressed to the point where the are challenging what the novice builder can achieve (for about the same cost). So fewer and fewer novices kit-builders see the point of building vs. buying. Bare in mind, most novices are just going to build a kit entirely "stock" as per the plans. (Of course plans themselves differ enormously.)

So as ARFs become more scale (and I have no doubt they will), builders are going to have to "up their game" if they want to stay ahead of ARFs...whether that be for competition, funflys, or just kudos at the field.

quote:

...but who can see this when it is in the air??

People always say this. Or the talk about the "50-50 rule" about being 50ft up and going 50MPH. But as someone who cares about what my models look like when PHOTOGRAPHED in the air, I apply the harsher 300-2000 standard: That is, what will you model look like when photographed with a 300mm lens at 1/2000sec.

Believe me you can see ALMOST EVERYTHING.

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RE: Bigger is better than yours. - 3/5/2012 4:57 AM

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I bought a giant scale ARF Aircobra at the Perry swap meet on Friday...I think it looks great. Stencils are a little crooked but who cares? I couldn't build this plane with retracts, wheels, engine,fuel tank and plumbing, and servos for $725.00. Spinner (aluminum) included too!
Never been flown.....I like them big and little....I'm sure that this plane will get a lot of attention when I first take it out to the field, but that will fade in a couple of weeks. My Bud Nosen Aeronca is just another plane out there now......who cares? I just like to fly it and I think it looks cool.

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RE: Bigger is better than yours. - 3/5/2012 9:01 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: scale only 4 me
What nice about my models is I build them to satisfy myself,, building them large enough or detailed enough to impress anyone else is not my goal

+1!!!!!!!!!

I keep the water separated... what is scale is scale a for my satisfaction only; the 1/48 I have are 10 times more detailed than many RC scale. In RC I just go Pattern, so no scale at all.

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RE: Bigger is better than yours. - 3/5/2012 9:05 AM

abufletcher

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But in one fundamental way your 1/48 models aren't scale at all: They don't fly. And the fact that they don't fly reveals that they are "scale" only in the most superficial sense. I'm interested in "functional scale."

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RE: Bigger is better than yours. - 3/5/2012 9:13 AM

378

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad Veich

Some of you guys need to go back and read the original post as many of the replies here have nothing to do with the question raised by AW. The question was why does a big, poorly built model get more attention than a small, well built one?

If I had to guess, I'd say because one actually flies. The ARF that's up there doing split S's and making WOT passes six inches off the deck is going to get more attention than the one that's sitting in the pits because the owner doesn't want to risk thousands of man hours to the winds of fate.

That's how it is with me, anyway. When I'm at a car show, I gravitate straight towards the one with mud stains on the fenders and some grease on the side of the motor. The concourse cars are nice and all, but I'm far more interested in the one that just laid a nice pair of black marks on the ground by the toll booth leading into the park. Aircraft and cars are meant to be enjoyed not by sitting idle and admiring their detail, they're meant to be enjoyed in action, and for many the one with less detain and more action will win FAR more attention than the picture perfect one that never turns a crankshaft in anger.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cubcrasher

Some time back I saw aguy at the field get beaten out buy a guy that had an arf, go figure that one.

Maybe it's a sign the kit/scratch built elitism is founded on absolutely nothing?

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RE: Bigger is better than yours. - 3/5/2012 9:22 AM

abufletcher

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 378
If I had to guess, I'd say because one actually flies. The one that actually works is going to get more attention than the one that's sitting in the pits because the owner doesn't want to risk thousands of man hours to the winds.

They all fly. Some fliers admire models that "fly like they're on rails." Personally, I would hate that. The real WWI aircraft that I've been in love with since I was 12 sure don't fly like that. And you sure couldn't fly one in all kinds of weather and all kinds of wind. But in some sense you're right. I won't risk a precious scale model flying in really harsh conditions. I reserve that for models I don't care at all about, namely cheap ARFs.

quote:

Maybe it's a sign the kit/scratch built elitism is founded on absolutely nothing?

a sport scale kit, built stock, is in itself no better than a sport scale ARF. You don't get any kudos just for gluing together balsa. But scratch-building and (to a less extent) kit building offers the builder the ability to deviate from the plan, to take things the extra mile...if they have the skills and drive. Most RC fliers don't.

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RE: Bigger is better than yours. - 3/5/2012 10:18 AM

378

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quote:

ORIGINAL: abufletcher

They all fly. Some fliers admire models that ''fly like they're on rails.'' Personally, I would hate that. The real WWI aircraft that I've been in love with since I was 12 sure don't fly like that. And you sure couldn't fly one in all kinds of weather and all kinds of wind. But in some sense you're right. I won't risk a precious scale model flying in really harsh conditions. I reserve that for models I don't care at all about, namely cheap ARFs.

That cheap ARF would be what got my attention. Without seeing that tear up the sky regardless of the wind I'd never have gotten the urge to chat the pilot up about it, and because of that I may never even notice the scale bird said pilot doesn't want to risk to a wind gust sitting idle in the pits. I'm more than content to admire someone else's thousand hours of detailing, providing I notice it's there at all.

quote:

a sport scale kit, built stock, is in itself no better than a sport scale ARF. You don't get any kudos just for gluing together balsa. But scratch-building and (to a less extent) kit building offers the builder the ability to deviate from the plan, to take things the extra mile...if they have the skills and drive.

The format the airplane came in from the factory has no bearing on this. You can work an ARF just the same as you can a kit or a scratch built. The only extra step involved is a bit of disassembly first, and given how thinly most ARFs are built it will take longer to get the covering off than it will to remove wood that isn't shaped right. It may even be quicker and easier in some cases to grab a well-made ARF and modify it than it would be to scratch build one, and since it's ARF-based it's more likely to actually fly.

It's like modifying a hot rod versus building a kit car. Either way you end up with a handy dandy means to liquify a set of Pirellis in short order, and either one is going to attract the same sort of oohs and ahhs from 99% of the people seeing it.

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RE: Bigger is better than yours. - 3/5/2012 11:03 AM

abufletcher

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Yes, you can include ARF bashing. I just don't see the point myself. In most cases, you start with a compromise and end with (better) compromise. By the way, there are lots of really cruddy flying ARFs...I've had a few myself.

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