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RE: Are Scale RC Models Toys? - 3/10/2012 12:46 AM   
rgburrill



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You can tell the difference between men and boys
by the cut of their hair and the cost of their toys.



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RE: Are Scale RC Models Toys? - 3/10/2012 6:55 AM   
Aerobatx


 

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Status: offline 		If you can repair it, it is not a toy.

If it flies then it is a miniature airplane, not a toy.

If someone calls it a toy, they're just trying to piss me off.

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RE: Are Scale RC Models Toys? - 3/10/2012 2:05 PM   
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Status: offline 		scale or not they really aren't toys IMO....all-though sometimes i jokingly refer to them as toys when dealing with people who dont understand this hobby.

Items classified as toys shouldnt have the capability of chopping fingers off and more....... maybe when i hit my 40s or 50s ill have a different mindset and refer to them as toys

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RE: Are Scale RC Models Toys? - 3/10/2012 2:30 PM   
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Status: offline 		Well, the first thing I see when I open a kit or ARF box is a disclaimer on the top of the "parts" that starts out with "This is not a toy"...............




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RE: Are Scale RC Models Toys? - 3/10/2012 10:36 PM   
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Status: offline 		I see the point you guys are trying to make, but they are still toys to me. Everyone is free to call them whatever they wish though.

jess


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RE: Are Scale RC Models Toys? - 3/11/2012 9:08 AM   
SuchIsLife


 

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Status: offline 		You could describe a Lamborghini or 60 foot yacht as a toy.

I'm placing my bet now, this thread will reach 1000000 posts and run for 20 years.


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RE: Are Scale RC Models Toys? - 3/11/2012 2:26 PM   
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Status: offline 		LOL SuchIsLife,

I wont take that bet.

Looks like RCU is like this,

FlyBy Coal is black

BigBob No it's more of a dark gray.

hanky280 My brother works at a coal mine he says it's milky white underground but turns black in the sun light when they bring it up.

TomP07 Black is the total absence of light so coal can't be black.

Ratter5 Looks black to me.

DrZoom We only perceive colors that our brains decode from signals from our eyes. What is black to you might be totally different to someone else.

FlyBy So coal is not black?

BigBob No

hanky280 Nope it's white

DrZoom In hanky280's perception it could very well be white.

Ratter5 You guys are Freak'n morons!

Mod01 Ratter, there is to be no personal attacks unless you want to be banned.



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RE: Are Scale RC Models Toys? - 3/11/2012 2:56 PM   
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RE: Are Scale RC Models Toys? - 3/12/2012 1:55 PM   
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I think I'm gonna start going by this title........lol.

ZZ.


PS...Amish Warlord.....good thumbnail break down of the score so far!

PsPS.....: Ok, so a giant walks up to one of our full size aircraft....you know, the kind we-all can actually get into and fly around, picks it up and starts playing with it. So now is it real.....or a toy?

Second scenario. I stick a hamster in a little flight suit, make a nice comfy cockpit, stick him into my 1/4 scale gasser and fly him around a bit. Other than PETA showing up screaming through a bull horn to "land that hamster bearing machine this instant young man!!"...to that hamster, is it a real airplane?

hmmmmm, perspective perspective perspective.

< Message edited by ZoomZoom-RCU -- 3/12/2012 4:47 PM >

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RE: Are Scale RC Models Toys? - 3/12/2012 6:53 PM   
AmishWarlord



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Status: offline 		In both scenarios you use the word "real".

You qualify a plane being real by the capacity to carry a life form.

Under that definition a Global Hawk is not a real plane and there for a toy.

One the first one the "real" plane can not be a toy to the giant. He can't pick it up and play with it. The plane would crush under it's own weight as well as the concentrated force of the giants grasp.

This is why a model is not a toy. A small child is incapable of handling an intricate model with out damaging it.

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RE: Are Scale RC Models Toys? - 3/12/2012 7:17 PM   
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Status: offline 		My family consider my RC planes as toys, the people in my neighbourhood, including my radical Green Peace activist neighbour accross the street consider it toys....... so what can I do?.... I enjoy playing with my toys and getting the old GP girl accross the street all revved up - especially trying to take aerial clip of her swimming bare-azz in the most southern most public tidal pool on our beach right at the tip of Africa.... ....  

Toys or not toys, who cares, as long as you enjoy it.

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RE: Are Scale RC Models Toys? - 3/12/2012 7:29 PM   
ZoomZoom-RCU



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Status: offline 		In both scenarios you use the word "real".

You qualify a plane being real by the capacity to carry a life form.

My apologies, was using it in a generic fashion, perhaps nopt the best use. But was attempting to capture whatever a person conceptualizes as "not a toy". Perhaps there is a better term. Also, it seems the mental association with Toy or not, does lie partly, perhaps subconsciously with the ability to carry a living being, so that's why I chose these scenarios for thought.

This is why a model is not a toy. A small child is incapable of handling an intricate model with out damaging it.

This is an interesting argument in the pro column....ie they are not toys. Or is that the No column?

and lastly....

Toys or not toys, who cares, as long as you enjoy it.

Cause sometimes it's fun to pick nits.

ZZ.



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RE: Are Scale RC Models Toys? - 3/12/2012 9:22 PM   
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Status: online 		It is really simple; do you make a living doing it or is it for recreation? There are many out there that make a living flying models to them they are not toys; it feeds their family. Toys are toys no matter cost; toys are something extra you have, after you have done your obligations in life.

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RE: Are Scale RC Models Toys? - 3/12/2012 11:20 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AmishWarlord


This is why a model is not a toy. A small child is incapable of handling an intricate model with out damaging it.


At what age do you consider a child capable of handling An intricate model with out damage to himself/the model? Does resistance to damage effect whether an object is a toy?

I know quite a few people otherwise considered adults who seem incapable of handling intricate models/toys with out damage. How are they classified?

jess

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RE: Are Scale RC Models Toys? - 3/12/2012 11:24 PM   
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Status: offline 		Sorry TFF the Tool vrs Toy argument in in another thread,

This is the Toy vrs Model thread.

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RE: Are Scale RC Models Toys? - 3/12/2012 11:42 PM   
AmishWarlord



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Status: offline 		Adults who are incapable of handing intricate object without damage are just "Incompetent" but the slang term would be "Heavy Handed" or "Ham Fisted"


As for the child lets go back to the giant.

OK we'll take a child the size of a sky scraper.
Also will have two 747's.

One will be a "real" 747.

The other will be the same size but it will be a toy.

The "real" one would be more like a model to our child giant. He can look at it and very gently push it around. However if he grabbed onto the nose with one hand and lifted the 747 up the force needed to keep the plane from rotating and falling out of the hands grip would buckle the bulkheads. The rear portion would shear off and fall to the ground because the 747 has not designed to support all it's 833,000 pounds by the nose.

Now the one next to it is a toy. It was purposely designed for the giant child. It has 12" thick steel walls and reinforced steel frame. It was designed to support it's weight no mater how it's lifted and to resist the force of the giant child's grasp. It's also utterly incapable of flight just as a normals child's toy plane is incapable of flight.








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RE: Are Scale RC Models Toys? - 3/12/2012 11:55 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AmishWarlord

Adults who are incapable of handing intricate object without damage are just ''Incompetent'' but the slang term would be ''Heavy Handed'' or ''Ham Fisted''


As for the child lets go back to the giant.

OK we'll take a child the size of a sky scraper.
Also will have two 747's.

One will be a ''real'' 747.

The other will be the same size but it will be a toy.

The ''real'' one would be more like a model to our child giant. He can look at it and very gently push it around. However if he grabbed onto the nose with one hand and lifted the 747 up the force needed to keep the plane from rotating and falling out of the hands grip would buckle the bulkheads. The rear portion would shear off and fall to the ground because the 747 has not designed to support all it's 833,000 pounds by the nose.

Now the one next to it is a toy. It was purposely designed for the giant child. It has 12'' thick steel walls and reinforced steel frame. It was designed to support it's weight no mater how it's lifted and to resist the force of the giant child's grasp. It's also utterly incapable of flight just as a normals child's toy plane is incapable of flight.




This skyscraper size child. Is it a real child or a large toy?


Personally I have no ego problems if someone calls my models toys. That's what I call them myself, and how I regard them.

It is a hobby. most of us do it purely for pleasure. Everyone should be able to call the things they play with whatever they wish.

jess


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RE: Are Scale RC Models Toys? - 3/12/2012 11:58 PM   
AmishWarlord



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Status: offline 		Now as for the tool vrs toy and use dictates classification....

Did you guys hear of the Korean BBQ house owner who won a 747 for 500 Yen at an auction?

So... is a "real" 747 that is up on blocks a Toy, Model, Advertisement Tool, or Madness?

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RE: Are Scale RC Models Toys? - 3/13/2012 12:55 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AmishWarlord

Now as for the tool vrs toy and use dictates classification....

Did you guys hear of the Korean BBQ house owner who won a 747 for 500 Yen at an auction?

So... is a ''real'' 747 that is up on blocks a Toy, Model, Advertisement Tool, or Madness?


I don't see it as a model, but perhaps all the rest. I suppose the determining factor would be how the owner regards it.

jess

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RE: Are Scale RC Models Toys? - 3/13/2012 3:01 PM   
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Status: offline 		"As for the child lets go back to the giant.

OK we'll take a child the size of a sky scraper.
Also will have two 747's. One will be a "real" 747.

The other will be the same size but it will be a toy.

The "real" one would be more like a model to our child giant. He can look at it and very gently push it around. However if he grabbed onto the nose with one hand and lifted the 747 up the force needed to keep the plane from rotating and falling out of the hands grip would buckle the bulkheads. The rear portion would shear off and fall to the ground because the 747 has not designed to support all it's 833,000 pounds by the nose.

Now the one next to it is a toy. It was purposely designed for the giant child. It has 12" thick steel walls and reinforced steel frame. It was designed to support it's weight no mater how it's lifted and to resist the force of the giant child's grasp. It's also utterly incapable of flight just as a normals child's toy plane is incapable of flight."

This bit was very well reasoned AW. You fleshed out the principles involved very thoroughly, and your conclusion is insightful based upon the proof you worked out. I actually would have to agree with your conclusion. It all comes back to the "economies of scale" after all. I think you become more familiar with them when you've actually done some designing yourself and have had to deal first hand with these issues. Most people just go to the store and buy their plane of the shelf (or catalog) and other than maybe even remedially assembling it, have no idea how or why the design works...hence the immediate "Toy" conceptualization. They have no idea why the wings have to be a certain thickness, or shaped the way they are, why pressure points, contact points, and spars are all just the way they are, and for what reason, and mainly because when things get really small, coupled with our modern lightweight materials, you can slap a foam wing on a plank and it'll fly. However, each of these elements is designed to do its job, from the full scale bird, to the smallest, (and I'm talking real flyable plane) and if done wrong, can produce the same results as when your giant skyscraper childe grabbed onto the nose of the real flyable 747.
So the economies of scale fool us into thinking that because once I get into 1/4 scale aircraft as opposed to smaller, and it actually needs a wooden spar, internal structures to support the ribs and wing mounts, longerons and fuselage formers, and all of this instead of just a hollow foam skin of a smaller scale machine, that this is somehow less a toy....and the other is more, when they are simply different materials performng the same work. Deceptively different, but the same. Now you can still call it a toy if you like....I don't think anyone really has an ego issue about this....if so thats puzzling really....who cares!? But if you are philosophically objective, I think a flying machine is a flying machine....no matter what scale it's in. Of course others could have a cut-off determination that unless a human can ride in it, it's not real either. Well....ok, so where does that leave military drones? I have heard folks say "isn't it funny and degrading that some terrorist elements were killed by our flying "toys". Yeah, I guess if thats your definition parameter....it is pretty strange. Ah well....potato...potawto.

It is a fascinating discussion though...with no definite answer.

ZZ.

More fun food for thought, so is this a toy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDmnjwbJrVM
Some may say yes....lol.

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RE: Are Scale RC Models Toys? - 3/13/2012 3:33 PM   
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Status: online 		Toy and model is about ego. Model or tool is defining purpose.

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RE: Are Scale RC Models Toys? - 3/13/2012 4:02 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AmishWarlord

Now as for the tool vrs toy and use dictates classification....

Did you guys hear of the Korean BBQ house owner who won a 747 for 500 Yen at an auction?

So... is a ''real'' 747 that is up on blocks a Toy, Model, Advertisement Tool, or Madness?



It depends of the intent. Will he live in it? A house. Will he use it to advertise the name of the company? A billboard Obviously not a model, nor a toy...

Close to where I live, in Langhorne PA, they had a Connie Super Constellation that was a restaurant. I do not have a picture (it was removed some years ago when the restaurant was sold to a ggas station.
But I found a video on line: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFTa9dkXXYU

For us, the Connie was a landmark:-)

Gerry



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RE: Are Scale RC Models Toys? - 3/13/2012 4:25 PM   
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Status: offline 		Toy and model is about ego. Model or tool is defining purpose.

Well this is clearly your breakdown...but is by no means universal. Some folks have no "ego in the fight".

For us, the Connie was a landmark:-)

Now see this is where it becomes interesting again. The plane....has now become something else....a landmark. Now is this because it can no longer fly and is therefore no longer really a "real plane" just the vestige of one?

It's also interesting to see the "word associations" that people have, even subconcsiously with certain words. For instance, a "toy poodle". Ok, it's a real animal, it's only called "toy" because of it's diminutive stature, and cuteness.
Very much perception based, but not reality in fact. Strange...

ZZ.



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RE: Are Scale RC Models Toys? - 3/13/2012 5:12 PM   
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Status: online 		The definition does not mean I dont love my airplanes. Does not mean I dont respect the others grand ones. The full size airplane I am restoring is a toy; I dont need it but I love playing with it; really cant afford it. The helicopters I work on are business only, not for fun, altho work is fun. I just finished working on one for a private client and his is pure toy; a $400,000 toy and he will tell you its a toy. Not my picture; off the internet. I m so use to seeing it I dont have any pics on the computer here. Models are just a subcatagory.

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RE: Are Scale RC Models Toys? - 3/13/2012 5:36 PM   
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I had to think about this argument for a while.  Yes most rc planes are toys but any rc vehicle carring a payload for destruction is no longer a toy.  The Predator Drone is a weapons platform or a rc spy plane.  The military also has remote controlled bombs, rockets etc.  There are small drones being developed  and utelized for spying, some small as a small bird.

Some rc cars are used in organized racing.,  You can still win prizes or money at some events. These are race cars. 

The purpose and how an rc vehicle is utelized defines whether or not  it is a toy.




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