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What is a "waiver"? - 3/8/2012 3:12 AM   
megafly


 

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Status: offline 		Sorry about this ridiculous question for you guys, my english ins't bad, but, I don't understand what is a waiver? I went to google but the translation is very sparse.
I think to fly jets in America you need to fly with an AMA associated? And this guy will be the "waiver" and tell that you have the skills to fly it?
Sorry again, but I have this on my mind and can't figure it out...


Thanks!

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RE: What is a - 3/8/2012 3:25 AM   
Tim Redelman



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RE: What is a - 3/8/2012 3:42 AM   
megafly


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tim Redelman

Someone that sits on a parade float and waves???

Tim

Very good explanation, is this a puzzle?
Serius guys some words don't hava an exact translation, and some times one word can have manny means.
Like "Saudades" in portuguese, it doesn't translate to english...
Thanks in advance.




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RE: What is a - 3/8/2012 3:53 AM   
Flynstuff



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Status: online 		Yes. To Fly in the USA you need AMA and a Waiver. you obtain the waiver from flying with another turbine waivered pilot and a CD (Contest Director)
They sign the paperwork and you then send it to the AMA with a small payment.

The waiver states that you are a competent turbine pilot, Follow and understand all the rules, regulations and saftey guidlines.

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RE: What is a - 3/8/2012 3:53 AM   
erbroens



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Status: offline 		In the USA you can´t just buy and fly a turbine powered model, so the AMA (american model association) has a "driver license" system that certifies that you are a competent flyer, able to operate safely this kind of models.

E como se fosse uma carteira de motorista, mas e meio para ingles ver, entende?


abraço, Enrique.



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RE: What is a - 3/8/2012 3:54 AM   
rhklenke



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Status: offline 		A "waiver" in this context is a license to fly a turbine-powered model under the insurance coverage of the AMA in the US. The AMA safety code says that a modeler can not fly a turbine-powered model unless they have this "waiver" that is signed off by two other experienced turbine flyers. Its basically a mechanism to try and keep inexperienced or unskilled flyers like Mr. Islandhobbies from getting a turbine model and hurting someone or causing a lot of property damage because they can't handle the aircraft.

Bob

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RE: What is a - 3/8/2012 3:58 AM   
trioval00


 

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RE: What is a - 3/8/2012 3:58 AM   
invertmast


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: erbroens

In the USA you can´t just buy and fly a turbine powered model, so the AMA (american model association) has a ''driver license'' system that certifies that you are a competent flyer, able to operate safely this kind of models.

E como se fosse uma carteira de motorista, mas e meio para ingles ver, entende?


abraço, Enrique.





lol... haven't seen that one before! its actually "Academy of Model Aeronautics"

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RE: What is a - 3/8/2012 4:01 AM   
erbroens



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RE: What is a - 3/8/2012 4:03 AM   
megafly


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks guys!
Here in Brazil is just by and fly!
We have some rules, but not like yours.
Here you have to be a Cobra associated and have to be insured, but after that no one will see you fly, is like pay and fly, but most of the flyers don't even pay to the cobra...
And thanks erbroens! Você explicou direitinho heheheh.

Thanks a lot for the explanation!



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RE: What is a - 3/8/2012 4:12 AM   
RCISFUN



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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhklenke

A ''waiver'' in this context is a license to fly a turbine-powered model under the insurance coverage of the AMA in the US. The AMA safety code says that a modeler can not fly a turbine-powered model unless they have this ''waiver'' that is signed off by two other experienced turbine flyers. Its basically a mechanism to try and keep inexperienced or unskilled flyers like Mr. Islandhobbies from getting a turbine model and hurting someone or causing a lot of property damage because they can't handle the aircraft.

Bob


Bob, your timing is great! That was funny....

Case and point, watch the end of the vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06_vh6iFt3g


Here is another definition of a waiver
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/waiver.asp#axzz1oWE63np3

Basically from the AMA perspective you are not covered by the AMA liability insurance unless you possess a waiver that will allow you to fly turbine aircraft, you earn your waiver by proving your skills to two other waiver holders, one of which must be an authorized CD (Contest Director) for Turbine events.

Once you earn the waiver then you are covered by the AMA liability insurance as long as you operate your model under the AMA safety code.


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RE: What is a - 3/8/2012 4:16 AM   
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RE: What is a - 3/8/2012 4:23 AM   
trioval00


 

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RE: What is a - 3/8/2012 4:34 AM   
erbroens



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Status: offline 		And now I am curious.. does the british model association (BMFA) has also a waiver system or something like it? or does any other country besides the usa have one?

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RE: What is a - 3/8/2012 5:37 AM   
BobbyMcGee


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tim Redelman

Someone that sits on a parade float and waves???

Tim

That was going to be my answer too!


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RE: What is a - 3/8/2012 5:55 AM   
FenderBean



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Status: online 		Keep in mind its only required if your an AMA member and you want to fly a turbine in a airborne vehicle.


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RE: What is a - 3/8/2012 6:41 AM   
essyou35


 

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Status: online 		The cd does not have to be a turbine CD, only has to have a general cd status and a waiver.  They loosened the standards.

The waiver is designed as a weed out system and it is seriously flawed.  I can fly a j3 cub with a turbine on it called a shockjet to get my waiver, then everyone thinks its ok I fly an f-18.  But try to fly the f-18 first and we have a problem.  Hmm.

But anyways that is what it is and what it does.  Hope that helps.

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RE: What is a - 3/8/2012 7:16 AM   
ZX11


 

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Status: offline 		Waivers aren't required to fly turbines in the USA. If you fly and are an insurance customer of the AMA company then you need a waiver. The AMA company provides secondary insurance for most flying clubs and model contests in the USA. The AMA wants you to have passed some tests for a "waiver" before they will provide you secondary insurance for your turbine powered aircraft.

The AMA company is not associated with the goverment and regulations of the USA. People often mix up the company with the goverment.

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RE: What is a - 3/8/2012 11:08 AM   
schroedm



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quote:

ORIGINAL: erbroens

And now I am curious.. does the british model association (BMFA) has also a waiver system or something like it? or does any other country besides the usa have one?


The UK does not have a turbine waiver system. We have a few processes in place. Some regulatory some voluntary.

The BMFA have competence schemes - the 'A', 'B' and 'C' certificates. You are required to have a 'B' certificate to fly at public shows but that's about it I believe for 'rules'. Within clubs I think it is at the club's discretion what can be flown at what level. Some will enforce no turbine flying unless you own a 'B' certificate, some will say no over 7kg models without an 'A' certificate. Some will say, fly what you like even if you don't have an 'A', 'B' or 'C'.

However, once a model comes to over 20kg the CAA (Civil Aviaition Authority) ie the law comes into effect. Over 20kg models require inspection, sign off, registration with the CAA and, to prove competence, up to 12 check flights under supervision before the model can be flown alone, either privately or publicly. I don't believe you need any of the A, B or C certs to fly over 20kg models so long as you have been 'signed off'. This sign off is for each model. If you own more than one >20kg models you have to put each one through the scheme. Sell it to someone else and they have to go through the scheme.

I guess, bottom line, if you don't want to fly at shows then you don't need any 'certification' to fly anything anywhere other than if it is over 20kg.

Maybe the good old English reserve and a less litigious society has kept things self-moderated. Maybe if things go downhill we'll have things forced upon us.

Rgds,
Mark

PS I should point out that I'm not 100% on everything here as it was years ago that I got my certificates so stuff may have changed slightly - but you get the idea!

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RE: What is a - 3/8/2012 11:19 AM   
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Status: online 		A Waiver is something your wife gives you so you can spend $10,000 on a Model Airplane.

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RE: What is a - 3/8/2012 11:36 AM   
Geoff White



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Status: offline 		That pretty much the same as I see it Mark.

Just to add that the two clubs I belong to have the same rule that you must have a 'B' cert to fly jets and I think this is sensible.
Also it you want to fly at an LMA show don't you have to hold a LMA proficiency rather than a 'B' ?

Geoff.

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RE: What is a - 3/8/2012 12:04 PM   
schroedm



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Status: offline 		Geoff,

Yes. I didn't mention the LMA as my post was already dull and long enough

Having been to a couple of LMA shows I do wonder how many of them could pass an 'A' certificate

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RE: What is a - 3/8/2012 12:45 PM   
Geoff White



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RE: What is a - 3/8/2012 12:53 PM   
weasel33



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Status: offline 		Only thing we have in the barbarian north of England is a wafer
thats two pieces of scrumchy crunchy goodness with a slab of icecream
inbetween,if you can eat that without dribbling down your chin
your good to go.

brian

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RE: What is a - 3/8/2012 1:08 PM   
rhklenke



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quote:

ORIGINAL: ZX11

Waivers aren't required to fly turbines in the USA. If you fly and are an insurance customer of the AMA company then you need a waiver. The AMA company provides secondary insurance for most flying clubs and model contests in the USA. The AMA wants you to have passed some tests for a ''waiver'' before they will provide you secondary insurance for your turbine powered aircraft.

The AMA company is not associated with the goverment and regulations of the USA. People often mix up the company with the goverment.


Actually, the AMA is not a "company" strictly speaking, its a 501c3 not-for-profit association, and yea, when the FAA sUAS regulations are finally issued, you *will* have to be an AMA member to fly a turbine - at least until some other "community-based organization" steps up to the plate...

Bob

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