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RE: Model Airplane News, then and now. - 3/12/2012 4:03 AM   
Iron Bottom


 

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Status: offline 		I recently re subscribed to MAN. Got a few issues and remembered why I dropped it. Nothing in there for someone that likes to build. Glad to see you are doing better, Gray Beard. I went through a similar situation and emerged much better than I was before.

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RE: Model Airplane News, then and now. - 3/12/2012 4:25 AM   
BobbyMcGee


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gray Beard

I saved a MAN from 1989 because it had the build article of the Nick Ziroli Swoose and I knew someday I would want to build that plane. Now is that time so I dug out the old magazine. I have several other old ones saved for the same reason.
I read the magazine and was thrilled with what a good magazine MAN used to be. Several build articles, different events covered and how to do articles.
Different Departments that were geared to teach/show builders to do different things. Very few advertisements and only one review of an ARF.
I forgot how good MAN was. I quit subscribing years ago when I got tired of paying for advertisements and ARF reviews. Maybe the editors in charge should pull and read some of there old magazines so they know what a magazine should look like.
Just a thought. I read this one from cover to cover and even learned a few things in the process.


I fully agree with you about the magazine being better back then. For the past ten years, it has mostly been the same republished articles time and time again. I swear the same articles go round and round every 12 to 18 months. Never will they write that an ARF they tested was really built like crap, flew like crap, and not worth the money.

Now, the best use I've found for the magazine is as a cutting board so that I don't dull my x-acto blades when cutting balsa or monokote.

If I could opt out of getting the magazine just to save $2 on my AMA membership, I'd do it right away.

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RE: Model Airplane News, then and now. - 3/12/2012 7:08 AM   
dabigboy


 

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Status: offline 		What's funny is I'm 29 and I am just as saddened by the decline of popularity in kit building and the rise of ARFs as anybody. I remember someone giving me a copy of RCM when I was a kid in the 80s, I don't know which issue it was but I remember it featured a Pilatus Porter build. I pored over that magazine for years, studying every detail of the Porter, going over the pictures and drawings in the various articles, and (later on) reading the howto's and other articles. Unfortunately I was never subscribed to RCM, but the handful of other copies I got my hands on later were always among my favorite magazines. I did subscribe to MAN for many years, and still have complete years worth of copies from the 90's and early 2000's. I eventually got tired of being bombarded with ARF news and useless products.

Those RCM and older editions of MAN did much to spark the imagination of a little kid, and some of the techniques and tricks I learned I am still using today.

I read some Model Aviation issues during my AMA years, but the large quantity of AMA talk, and news/information that didn't interest me turned me away (probably because MA is designed to cover a wide spectrum of the model hobby, whereas I have always been more interested strictly in planes).

I'm afraid my generation is missing out big on the fun and enjoyment that can be had by building something beautiful. And it's not just the building itself, there is also joy and excitement just in learning new things. One of the things about learning is that it makes you want to learn more, especially when something that seemed insurmountable becomes not-so-difficult after all. Many times (especially when learning helicopters) I have faced some new challenge that seemed virtually impossible. At some point, I overcome it. That's when I think "well, if I can learn THAT, just imagine what I can do if I learn some more....." It's addicting. And it's sure a heck of a lot more productive and edifying than spending the afternoon watching the "big game" or the latest stupid reality show. I see the TV going at peoples' houses and I can't believe what a cesspool of violence, silliness, consumer-targeted propaganda, self-indulgent hubris, and inane drivel that TV truly is. And people are paying for it....WITH commercials.

Matt

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RE: Model Airplane News, then and now. - 3/12/2012 12:18 PM   
Daniel-EL



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Status: offline 		While most of my peers have gone on to giant scale, gasoline powered ARFs, I've stayed with kit or scratch built 40 - 60 size glow models. They're the most satisfying for me because 1) they don't cost much, 2) they're easy to transport, 3) they're still fun to fly, and 4) they give me something fun to do during the cold winter months. As for MAN.....well, what can I say. They've moved on with the rest of my peer group.

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RE: Model Airplane News, then and now. - 3/12/2012 1:32 PM  1 votes
roaddog2



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RE: Model Airplane News, then and now. - 3/12/2012 2:06 PM   
BobbyMcGee


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: roaddog2

MAN "never met a plane they didn't like".
RD


Hahahahahahaha .... That's funny! I like that!  Wish I thought of writing that!

It's so true too. The magazine manages to write good things about planes that are designed and built like crap. Can't trust the magazine to tell the truth anymore. Sad how the magazine can't be unbiased anymore.

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RE: Model Airplane News, then and now. - 3/12/2012 2:45 PM   
Zor



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Status: offline 		Written in the general trend of this thread _ _ _ 

Model airplane building has become the domain of manufacturers amd developed a large industry just like happened to ham radio.

Then consider reviews in magazines which are written to bring in more advertising.

I always have a big laugh when I read in the forum someone who writes they made their choice because it had good reviews. I have never yet seen and read a bad review. If eveything is always so perfect then there would be no need for reviews.

It makes me wonder how come such a large portion of society has become so easy to influence to a mediocre level. We can see that as well in this forum with so many postings reflecting lack of compositon and presentation with very poor formatting. I just love to read a posting that has 50 lines of text all in one single paragraph that discuss ten different topics.

We cannot always blame the writer. To be blamed is the education system that is so miserable in some parts of the world where money has become god and displaced the use of intelligence and good judgment. 

Yes ... all products are better then their competiton. How often are we told how and why ?

One of the most stupid reflection on present society is the 99 cents.
Hey . . .  save money . . . this house is not $300,000.00 . . . it is only $299,999.99 .

Oh! do not forget another important point . . . stop using the intelligence you were born with; it does not fit well in today's society. Someone will show up with all kinds of lies and inventions to attack your integrity and your character. Is it not easier to degrade your neighbor than make the effort to improve your ownself ?

Why bother to build a model airplane? You are not building a helicopter.
Why learn how airplanes fly when it is more relaxing to watch the boob tube.

Here TV went digital last September so I have no TV in my house since then.
A thourough investigation revealed that digital TV are dsigned to work off cable distribution. They do not work properly from antennas anymore. I went and bought an analog to digital converter. Great success . . . I used to receive about 8 stations with good signal to noise ratio. The converter picked only one station with lots of snow.
Yes, supposedly "improved technology" but forget it if it does not favor the economy of wide spread organization such as the advertising industry and the grab for the little money you work so hard to acquire.

Zor



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RE: Model Airplane News, then and now. - 3/12/2012 3:43 PM   
rgburrill



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Boomerang1

Hi Gene, good to see your recovery is progressing & you are back at the keyboard.

Guys occasionally bring stacks of old magazines to the field & it's a bit like a time
capsule seeing how the hobby has changed over the years. Like other products
you can see the point where China inc, with what the western world considers slave labour
rates of pay and government subsidised materials, started it's rise to prominence.

Magazines carry articles that interest people at that place in time. Prior to China Inc I think,
for a lot of people, building models from scratch or kits was a necessary evil & the magazines
carried articles related to that. Now it's shake the box & away you go. A friend works in a
model shop & some people can't even do that, some guys have a handy little business bolting
in the engines & servos so the plane is really 'ready to fly'. Starting & tuning the engine? Too
difficult for the 'new generation', hence the march of electrics, just charge it up like a mobile
phone.

The hobby is changing, not necessarily for the better. The magazines carry what interests the
lazy new world, not what interests me. My hobby shop friend & I have an 'inside' joke when
we turn up at the field with a new model - Q - Wow! , what's that new model made from?
A - trees!!

Keep building from trees! - John.


Yes, magazines carry articles that interest people at that place and time.  But magazines can also help influence trends by emphasizing some aspects over others.  Unfortunately most magazines today are about making money and the only influence they are concerned about is the advertising dollar.

One has to wonder what would happen if some magazine, perhaps one of those mentioned, changed their entire philosophy back to being "modeller" oriented instead of instant gratification oriented.  Would their sales increase?   Would people start subscribing again?   Or would they just lose advertisers and go under?


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RE: Model Airplane News, then and now. - 3/12/2012 4:37 PM   
dasquirrelisme


 

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Status: offline 		If it isnt foam and if it isnt electric you wont see it in any of the magazines. I havnt been in the hobby all that long but I have seen a change in just about 5 years. I know alot of people do the electric and foam thing but its not for me. The last 6 issues of Fly Rc went straight from the mailbox to the garbage can and so did the letter I got for resubscribing. MAN is good for about as long as it takes for a bathroom break. . I will just keep my $7 an issue and look for the stuff I need on here.

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RE: Model Airplane News, then and now. - 3/12/2012 4:39 PM   
dasquirrelisme


 

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Status: offline 		If it isnt foam and if it isnt electric you wont see it in any of the magazines. I havnt been in the hobby all that long but I have seen a change in just about 5 years. I know alot of people do the electric and foam thing but its not for me. The last 6 issues of Fly Rc went straight from the mailbox to the garbage can and so did the letter I got for resubscribing. MAN is good for about as long as it takes for a bathroom break. . I will just keep my $7 an issue and look for the stuff I need on here.

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RE: Model Airplane News, then and now. - 3/12/2012 6:08 PM   
crash1ace


 

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Status: offline 		I'ml sticking to my Arf's. I love em. I dont have the time or desire to sit down and read thru a boring instructions when building a kit. Bad enough having to do that with an arf.

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RE: Model Airplane News, then and now. - 3/12/2012 6:38 PM  1 votes
GerKonig


 

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Status: offline 		Well, I live in America, and here the curves of supply and demand are king. You really think there is a majority of builders in this hobby? Who are you kidding? Mags. reflect the interests of the readers (or go under).

After being in the hobby for 40 years I saw many good developments: Scale airplanes are bigger, and now they fly much better. Also, the quality of the scale models has improved a lot, and new techniques are available, and the information spreads rapidly trough forums like this one (and others that will remain nameless).

The problem is that we live in a highly polarized country and it also carries into our hobby. Builders, arfers, gassers, nitronuts, electric power people try to downgrade whatever the other one is doing. That is really idiotic, short minded, and dimwitted. Whatever you like is the best. Period. (The best for you that is).

But, in general, for the entire hobby, I see nicer models, that fly better, and look better, that use better hardware, better radios, better batteries, and I can see constant improvements. Heck, I remember when the first commercial RC helicopter came out! Now you can buy a gyro equipped mini chopper for $29.90!

Fortunately, I never met an airplane I did not like, I like them all. I build mostly 1/4 scale, but also own excellent ARFs (1/4 scale RV-4 and 1/5 Scale Curtiss Hawk), I even have a couple of foam models! so, I do not put anyone down. I do not fly choppers, but that is not a reason to put them down.

Minds are like parachutes, they only work when open. Reading some comments in this forum makes my happy in our club we try to help each other, but really deep inside, we do not care what you are flying, if you built it or not, if it is new or old, clean or slimy.

Gerry

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RE: Model Airplane News, then and now. - 3/12/2012 6:57 PM   
Gray Beard


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GerKonig

Well, I live in America, and here the curves of supply and demand are king. You really think there is a majority of builders in this hobby? Who are you kidding? Mags. reflect the interests of the readers (or go under).

After being in the hobby for 40 years I saw many good developments: Scale airplanes are bigger, and now they fly much better. Also, the quality of the scale models has improved a lot, and new techniques are available, and the information spreads rapidly trough forums like this one (and others that will remain nameless).

The problem is that we live in a highly polarized country and it also carries into our hobby. Builders, arfers, gassers, nitronuts, electric power people try to downgrade whatever the other one is doing. That is really idiotic, short minded, and dimwitted. Whatever you like is the best. Period. (The best for you that is).

But, in general, for the entire hobby, I see nicer models, that fly better, and look better, that use better hardware, better radios, better batteries, and I can see constant improvements. Heck, I remember when the first commercial RC helicopter came out! Now you can buy a gyro equipped mini chopper for $29.90!

Fortunately, I never met an airplane I did not like, I like them all. I build mostly 1/4 scale, but also own excellent ARFs (1/4 scale RV-4 and 1/5 Scale Curtiss Hawk), I even have a couple of foam models! so, I do not put anyone down. I do not fly choppers, but that is not a reason to put them down.

Minds are like parachutes, they only work when open. Reading some comments in this forum makes my happy in our club we try to help each other, but really deep inside, we do not care what you are flying, if you built it or not, if it is new or old, clean or slimy.

Gerry

I'll give this a +1 but would it kill the editor of MAN to start printing one build, scratch build a month? There are still people designing planes just like a few years back that would love to get there plans published and sold through a magazine just like in days gone by.
Crash, your not alone in your thinking. I'm the only regular builder I know. I get asked a lot by builders that have gone completely ARF to build a kit or two for them they have left over before they went total ARF.
For a long time I was able to stay in the hobby and own top of the line gear just by assembling Arfs for club members and building kits for club members that gave up building. Not everyone has the time, space or talent to build. I fly with a lot of guys that only want to fly so the ARFs are perfect for them.
My only point is the magazines have completely shut out a big part of modeling, the builders. It's been a long time sense I have subscribed to any magazine at all. I have one friend I fly with that saves his magazines for me so I do keep up with what is happening in the modeling world. New engines and electronics. I don't bother reading much about the ARFs or Heli world. The magazines out of the UK that still have building are just out of my price range.

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RE: Model Airplane News, then and now. - 3/12/2012 7:16 PM   
redtail


 

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Status: offline 		Hey guys, I too miss RCM greatly. There is a lady editor now at MAN who is looking quite hard for construction articles. I wrote an article on constructing droppable wing tanks using green floral foam. She grabbed it up and noted that she was looking for more such construction and tips to publish. Maybe with her guidance, the magazine's previous environment of teaching and learning is coming back to one of the great magazines of old. Send in some great stuff so that she can share it with the rest of us. Chic

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RE: Model Airplane News, then and now. - 3/12/2012 7:36 PM   
GerKonig


 

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Status: offline 		I understand gray beard's comment of lack of construction articles. What I really cannot understand is people claiming that the kits are disappearing... Well, my favorite kit supplier is doing good (Balsa USA), we also have Glenn Torrance (for WWI lovers). Plus a bizillon of plans published by all kind of magazines that are available. I waited long, but a new kit for a giant PT-19 is coming out this summer, Ziroli, Hollman, and so many more sell the plans and you can have a kit laser cut for a reasonable amount. At the Wram there was a company that sells small wooden kits, selling like crazy (cute models). In Canada there is a supplier of great wood kits, actually there are more than one in Canada.

Anyway, that is w/o counting the usual suspects (Top Flite and Sig). As things are right now, there are enough kits for the rest of my life (provided I can live to be 800). Maybe it would be a good idea to create a comprehensive list of the kits that are available in case someone is unaware of all this stuff. If you have built some kits, maybe building from plans is the next thing to do:-) After all, there are only a couple of thousand of designs to pick from...

These days, if I am building something, I find build threads on line where to go for my needs. And for some models, there are a lot of threads (1/4 scale Super Cubs, Ziroli Stukas for example). The wealth of information at your fingertips is nothing short of amazing.

Gerry

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RE: Model Airplane News, then and now. - 3/12/2012 9:07 PM   
rgburrill



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quote:

ORIGINAL: crash1ace

I'ml sticking to my Arf's. I love em. I dont have the time or desire to sit down and read thru a boring instructions when building a kit. Bad enough having to do that with an arf.


Don't have the time?  Must be an indoor flyer.  I live just down the road and with the cold, snow (ok not this winter), rain and wind there are no days for flying foamies outdoors .  But plenty of time for building .  I've even restarted a project I partially started 10 years ago.

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RE: Model Airplane News, then and now. - 3/12/2012 9:41 PM   
qldviking



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Status: offline 		Regarding kits disappearing, I have seen over the last couple years a resugence of sorts of kits, particularly in the USCanada. And yes, there lots of plans out there for all types, but for the newer members of tis hobby buying a kit is one thing, actually building one is another. Sadly many of the older rc'ers are disappearing for various reasons, and apart from online sites like here the newbies have no-one to ask for advice or help. Even with all the great tips etc here you still need the time to go through the various threads to find the info you need.

I have one young fellow trying to build a 96" Cub, he lives about 130 miles from me, but I get calls from him at least weekly about how to or "I think I goofed", and I have driven down several times to help him along. This young fellow, like many others, is married, big close families on both sides so his time is limited to how much he can put into his hobby. I used to have boxes of old magazines, which would have been great for him but I no longer have them.

I can't remember the last time I actually bought an rc magazine, apart from the exhorbitant prices here {between 20-30$} the content is as has been stated here just full arf crud and how good each is, depite the fact some should be taken back the the manufacturers CEO's and jammed up where the sun dont shine.

What is needed is a kitscratchbuilders section, with monthly instalments on the construction of a kit, preferably something more involved than a trainer, and a useful tips section. When you look at all the garbage and ads they run in the mags now I don't think its too much to ask

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RE: Model Airplane News, then and now. - 3/12/2012 10:33 PM   
mkranitz



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Status: offline 		I'd be interested to know what you guys think about RC Pilot Magazine. Different approach than RCM, MAN and FlyRC but interactive and fun. Let me know!

RCPilot.com


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RE: Model Airplane News, then and now. - 3/12/2012 10:44 PM   
turbo.gst


 

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Status: offline 		The old magazines were fantastic! They taught me about building, designing and engines. Today's modeling world is more of a plug and play universe. I really miss the old magazines. Its hard to have a in depth discussion at the field nowadays. I am teaching my son's the way I learned. I saved everything( magazines, kit plans and all my engines). I wish there was a good magazine today!

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RE: Model Airplane News, then and now. - 3/12/2012 10:53 PM   
RICKSTUBBZ



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Status: offline 		I know nothing about the magazine business and it must be a mess for a magazine to need a $7.00 per copy cover price. I’d say, you won't get many new subscriptions with that price on Walmarts shelf..... Of coarse as I stated before my subscription was $20 I think - at most $24 which is $2.00 a copy. I’d say the biggest problem for magazines is regardless of what they put in them, people aren’t reading them. Meaning nobody is buying.

As to reviews, even in the day of kit reviews things were the same as today’s arf reviews’. They were all good. Seldom in a review do I recall anyone going into detail of what you could or should do to the kit/arf to make it a better plane. Unless it was something you could pull out your credit card and spend money on.

I would love to see a good article on how a person could take a motor, speed control, a set of props, and using a watt meter, and tachometer, establish the best prop (actually range of props) to use with that given set-up. Even though, in this case I know how to do that. When the current host of magazines does print a technical article the text is so edited to save space that the necessary details are kind of left out in the breeze.

So, speaking of reviews, let’s do a little review on MAN with the May 2012 issue:

Open the cover and flip to the second page which in this case is the table of contents and you’ll find that it is labeled page 4. What! Oh you mean the outside front cover is page one. OK. And the two page add inside the front cover counts. No big deal they are just numbers right?

You must flip 8 pages to get to the letters to the editor. Not too bad after that you have a page add then tips and tricks, a page add, then a page of readers planes. Then you have to flip through 8 more pages of ads, 3 of which are disguised as product showcase/highlights whatever you want to call it, which lands you on page 24 with more product showcase - top 10 WWII arfs. There are five pages of that. Then three more full page adds. The first review is on page labeled 32. The first actual article Scale Engine Cowling is on page 46. Now i thought this article would be worth the read. But as I got through it, I find as I said at the beginning of this post, the details are edited a bit short to keep it to 4 pages. What about the louvers? That I would like to have read about. The 2 1/2 page article Ultimate Electrics (only about a page of text) offered me the insight that for an electric powered airplane I would need a Motor, Speed control, and Battery. Really? Oh I did learn that somebody says, and I don’t believe it verbatim, that speed controls are rated with a 5mph wind blowing over them. It is good to know that something that gets hot needs cooling air passing over it. Ok then - I’ll chalk that one up to being for the really new-bees......

Well with all that said I took the time to get a page count. This does not include the front and back cover.


106-Total pages
47- full page adds (44.3%)
1 ½ - pages of ½ page adds (45.7% total add space)
10 – pages product show case
1- page worth or two ½ pages of product show case (10.3% total showcase)
5 pages of magazine info Table of contents letters to the editor-editors blog-classifieds (4.7%)
26 pages of reviews- (24.5%)and that’s generous - lots of big pictures some borderline showcase products
15 ½ pages of actual articles. (14.6%0)

14.6% actual reading material.......15 ½ pages for +/-$2.00...13 cents a page.... is it worth it to you?

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RE: Model Airplane News, then and now. - 3/12/2012 11:09 PM   
jessiej



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quote:

ORIGINAL: crash1ace

I'ml sticking to my Arf's. I love em. I dont have the time or desire to sit down and read thru a boring instructions when building a kit. Bad enough having to do that with an arf.


That seems reflective of our times. Learning and overcoming of challenges have been replaced by instant gratification.

jess

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RE: Model Airplane News, then and now. - 3/13/2012 12:15 AM   
qldviking



Posts: 986
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From: proserpineQueensland, AUSTRALIA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jessiej


quote:

ORIGINAL: crash1ace

I'ml sticking to my Arf's. I love em. I dont have the time or desire to sit down and read thru a boring instructions when building a kit. Bad enough having to do that with an arf.


That seems reflective of our times. Learning and overcoming of challenges have been replaced by instant gratification.

jess


Aint that the truth

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think outside the square? what square?

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RE: Model Airplane News, then and now. - 3/13/2012 12:45 AM   
spitfireboy


 

Posts: 13
Score: 100
Joined: 4/3/2004
Last Login: 6/11/2013
From: nuevo, CA, USA
Status: offline 		R/C report was one of the best magazines around

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RE: Model Airplane News, then and now. - 3/13/2012 1:07 AM   
Firepower R/C


 

Posts: 539
Score: 110
Joined: 11/2/2004
Last Login: 6/15/2013
From: Bloomington, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Wow, most of us knew it was bad, but to have those numbers staring back at you is pathetic... 15 pages of articles... wow. I stopped buying mags a few years ago due to lack of decent content. Every time I got to the back cover while scanning the mag at Barnes and Noble, I would think to myself,"That's it? Over so soon? Where's the good stuff?" At least have a worthwhile article or guide to help out all the hopeless newbies that got suckered into buying imported gas engines that were way over their heads!

How many have previewed a recent R/C mag at the store, only to put it back unimpressed?

I only saw 1 R/C report, and it looked good. I think it was the last issue.

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Firepower R/C
Saving un-loved R/C airplanes around the world

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RE: Model Airplane News, then and now. - 3/13/2012 2:25 AM   
DougB1



Posts: 480
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Joined: 10/14/2002
Last Login: 6/17/2013
From: Louisville, KY, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: spitfireboy

R/C report was one of the best magazines around

I too loved reading this magazine because of the "TRUTH" it told of the products it tested. If it was a good product they would tell why it was good, if it was not, they told why it was not up to par. Sure getting tired of the JUNK the magazine are putting in the things they call magazines. PLEASE SOMEONE bring back another R/C Report type magazine we all can enjoy again. I still have some of the first R/C Report's that were like a news paper before it went to the magazine/book style, still like to go back and read those articles.
DougB1

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