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Trouble with Hi-Tec Optic 6 Sport 2.4 Radio.....>>... - 3/14/2012 3:58 AM   
Taz_Hobbies


 

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From: Spring Hill, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I know I am back after a 20 year layoff and I feel like a complete idiot not knowing some of this stuff, but I have a radio issue that is puzzling.

I have a brand new Optic 6 Sport 2.4 from Hi-Tec. I have it installed in a 71" piper Cub. Was hoping to taxi test her today after a couple weeks of tinkering and a radio issue cropped up that has me baffled.

With the wing removed, the 3 servos in the fuselage seem to work correctly. Place the wing on (which has a servo in each wing panel for the ailerons with a Y-harness) and the radio simply acts as though it is struggling to "understand" the commands from the TX. For instance, when you cycle thru the ailerons, left to right, right to left, the servo move incrementally, not a smooth from epa to epa motion and the transmitter beeps at me intermittenly. If I am cycling thru the ailerons and I stroke the rudder left, right, left for isntance, the aileon servos will act independantly of each other, the rudder will move at a very slow rate, incrementally back and forth and the elevator may jump up or down!

We are talking a fully charged 4.8V battery pack, 5 basic Futaba 3003 servos and all the control throws are not binding or anything like that. Is this the dreaded "brownout" I am starting to hear about?

I am stumped. It's not like we are running some huge digital servos. This is just a basic "welcome back after 20 year" slow flyer to ease back in and this radio has me wanting to toss it in the trash and go back to my old 72mhz 7 channel futaba.

Any ideas guys?


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RE: Trouble with Hi-Tec Optic 6 Sport 2.4 Radio.....>... - 3/14/2012 4:13 AM   
BuschBarber


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Taz_Hobbies

I know I am back after a 20 year layoff and I feel like a complete idiot not knowing some of this stuff, but I have a radio issue that is puzzling.

I have a brand new Optic 6 Sport 2.4 from Hi-Tec. I have it installed in a 71'' piper Cub. Was hoping to taxi test her today after a couple weeks of tinkering and a radio issue cropped up that has me baffled.

With the wing removed, the 3 servos in the fuselage seem to work correctly. Place the wing on (which has a servo in each wing panel for the ailerons with a Y-harness) and the radio simply acts as though it is struggling to ''understand'' the commands from the TX. For instance, when you cycle thru the ailerons, left to right, right to left, the servo move incrementally, not a smooth from epa to epa motion and the transmitter beeps at me intermittenly. If I am cycling thru the ailerons and I stroke the rudder left, right, left for isntance, the aileon servos will act independantly of each other, the rudder will move at a very slow rate, incrementally back and forth and the elevator may jump up or down!

We are talking a fully charged 4.8V battery pack, 5 basic Futaba 3003 servos and all the control throws are not binding or anything like that. Is this the dreaded ''brownout'' I am starting to hear about?

I am stumped. It's not like we are running some huge digital servos. This is just a basic ''welcome back after 20 year'' slow flyer to ease back in and this radio has me wanting to toss it in the trash and go back to my old 72mhz 7 channel futaba.

Any ideas guys?


If you have a Wattmeter or a Hangar 9 Current Meter, you can measure the current drawn, for any servo, when it is fully deflected, by connecting the meter between the servo and the Rx. You can also connect the meter between the Rx battery and the Rx to see how much Current the system is drawing and how much the Voltage has dropped.

Have you tried another Model Memory after being sure to Reset the Model Memory to Factory Defaults? It is possible that you have some Mix enabled that is affecting the system when the Ailerons are connected. Be sure you have adequate Rx Battery power. Just because the Voltage reads Normal with all servos at rest does not guarantee that you will have enough Voltage when all servos are under full load.

Try just one Aileron servo without using the Y Harness. I have had many instances over the years where a Y Harness has caused servos to misbehave. I will use Channel Mixing, in the Transmitter, or a Matchbox, before I ever use another Y Harness.

Some servos are not compatible with 6v or higher. If you are using a 6v Rx battery, switch to a 4.8v Rx battery as a test.

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RE: Trouble with Hi-Tec Optic 6 Sport 2.4 Radio.....>... - 3/14/2012 5:02 AM   
chuckk2


 

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Status: offline 		I don't know what the current capability of your 4.8v pack might be.
My experience with a probable brownout was with an A/C using 6 digital servos and a speed control with a built in 5v BEC rated for 7 servos (2.5Asupposedly)
Replacing the built in BEC with an external 5A unit solved the problem as far as we could tell. We also set the external BEC to supply 5.5V.

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RE: Trouble with Hi-Tec Optic 6 Sport 2.4 Radio.....>... - 3/14/2012 5:25 AM   
ira d


 

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Status: online 		This is not the brown out in fact Hitec never had a brown out problem that was the early Spktrum/JR stuff. the problem has to be with one or both of your ail
servos or the y connector, make sure both your ail servo are pluged in the correct polarity with one servo pluged in wrong it will cause some strange action
I have done it so I know.

As has already been said try each ail servo pluged into the receiver without the y let us know what you find. FWIW I have been running Futaba and Airtronics
2.4 systems on 4.8 packs for years with no problems.

Good luck.

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RE: Trouble with Hi-Tec Optic 6 Sport 2.4 Radio.....>... - 3/14/2012 8:28 AM   
A.T.


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Taz_Hobbies  I know I am back after a 20 year layoff and I feel like a complete idiot not knowing some of this stuff, but I have a radio issue that is puzzling.  I have a brand new Optic 6 Sport 2.4 from Hi-Tec. I have it installed in a 71" piper Cub. Was hoping to taxi test her today after a couple weeks of tinkering and a radio issue cropped up that has me baffled.  With the wing removed, the 3 servos in the fuselage seem to work correctly. Place the wing on (which has a servo in each wing panel for the ailerons with a Y-harness) and the radio simply acts as though it is struggling to "understand" the commands from the TX. For instance, when you cycle thru the ailerons, left to right, right to left, the servo move incrementally, not a smooth from epa to epa motion and the transmitter beeps at me intermittenly. If I am cycling thru the ailerons and I stroke the rudder left, right, left for isntance, the aileon servos will act independantly of each other, the rudder will move at a very slow rate, incrementally back and forth and the elevator may jump up or down!  We are talking a fully charged 4.8V battery pack, 5 basic Futaba 3003 servos and all the control throws are not binding or anything like that. Is this the dreaded "brownout" I am starting to hear about?  I am stumped. It's not like we are running some huge digital servos. This is just a basic "welcome back after 20 year" slow flyer to ease back in and this radio has me wanting to toss it in the trash and go back to my old 72mhz 7 channel futaba.  Any ideas guys? 


The first thing to investigate is what the Optic 6 Sport 2.4GHz transmitter is actually telling you.
This by reading  the LED blinking sequence on the reverse of the transmitter and
understanding the meaning of the alarm beep sequence being heard.

. First impression is that your battery pack is not up to the standard required of any 2.4Ghz system,
if NiMH then it should be a 5 cell pack . Alternatively you have a bad lead, connection or servo.
Be very aware that large capacity ( 2000MAh+)  AA NiMH 4.8V packs have high internal resistance and can not
always  supply the required current, especially  under load, of 5 servo.

. AFHSS - LED Status Card - What the colours/combinations are indicating.
. Digital .pdf copy which can be printed and inserted as a page in manual or extra cards made.

. AFHSS - Warning Beeps Aurora 9 & Spectra 2.4Ghz Module - Interpret & Manage the Independent Alarms.

. Optima Transceiver (RX) - Battery set up for Nitro/Gas models  - caution re NiMH & Alert re LiFE.

. Optima Transceiver (RX) - Dual or Multiple Batteries may be installed - Avoid Brownout & Add Redundancy, even one for each servo.

see also:

. Transceiver (RX) - Servo Move Slower Than Usual - then Rebind.
...(Switched between Normal <> Scan mode with power off before process completed).
. Optima Transceiver (RX) - Servo Wag & Jerky Servo Movements Reasons & - Do Not Fly With This Condition. (...includes when switching on some ESC) .

. Optima Transceiver (RX) - Servos Stepping - Battery pack (power supply) failing under load.

. Hitec Optic 6 & Optic 6 Sport - Manuals, Tutorial, Comparison Charts, Updates & FAQ

and much more under Hitec USA Support Forum Sticky:
Hitec 2.4GHz AFHSS Spectra Modules, Optima Transceivers, Minima Receivers
& Telemetry - FAQ & Undocumented Features
- Mixes, Setups,Tips. {Individual Links often updated}

and under  
"Glitches & Jitter in Receiver, Servo & ESC - causes and cures " below
"Radio Systems, Accessories, Alterations and FAQ." at:
Alan's Hobby, Model & RC FAQ Web Links

Alan T.



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RE: Trouble with Hi-Tec Optic 6 Sport 2.4 Radio.....>... - 3/14/2012 8:53 AM   
jlingrel


 

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Status: offline 		Just as a quick check, try to disconnect your aileron servos one at a time and try it. The beeping may well be telemetry telling you the receiver battery is low, indicating a high current drain from at least one of your servos. I would try a higher capacity rx pack if they do the same with just one aileron servo attached. And as mentioned in an earlier post, if you can get an amp meter, check the current. Bet you it is very high with the "wing on"

John

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RE: Trouble with Hi-Tec Optic 6 Sport 2.4 Radio.....>... - 3/14/2012 12:15 PM   
JIMF14D


 

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Status: offline 		What you are describing is not brown out.  Disconnecting servos one at a time might show a bad one. Have the servos been sitting around for a long time with out use?

You don't say if this is an EP model with a BEC in the ESC. If so, five servos is a on the edge for some BECS.

One word of advice is get a good 6 volt battery.  I have found the Hitec RF link to be bullet proof but these systems draw more current than the older RXs and 4.8 volts gives you little margin.  What Rx do you have?

I use an Aurora 9 so I do not know the details of the Optic 6. Generally beeping is a low battery warning. Is the TX battery full charged also.

Good luck


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RE: Trouble with Hi-Tec Optic 6 Sport 2.4 Radio.....>... - 3/14/2012 12:33 PM   
jlingrel


 

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Status: offline 		JIMF14D, sounds like he bought the basic system as I did. TX, 6 channel RX and nothing else. The TX comes with a 7.2 V pack, but there is no RX battery. I think he may have one servo that is stalled or other wise sucking a lot of juice. I run 5 servos on mine all the time with no problem (running of the ESC). Not sure what the current drain is on the Futaba 3003s.

John

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RE: Trouble with Hi-Tec Optic 6 Sport 2.4 Radio.....>... - 3/14/2012 2:03 PM   
Taz_Hobbies


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JIMF14D

What you are describing is not brown out.  Disconnecting servos one at a time might show a bad one. Have the servos been sitting around for a long time with out use?

You don't say if this is an EP model with a BEC in the ESC. If so, five servos is a on the edge for some BECS.

One word of advice is get a good 6 volt battery.  I have found the Hitec RF link to be bullet proof but these systems draw more current than the older RXs and 4.8 volts gives you little margin.  What Rx do you have?

I use an Aurora 9 so I do not know the details of the Optic 6. Generally beeping is a low battery warning. Is the TX battery full charged also.

Good luck



Thanks to everyone for the excellent info. You guys have steering me in the right direction I believe.
It is not my servos, I have tried this set-up on three different aircraft I have. With the RX battery pack I have that while it's fully charged I know this means nothing, the system cannot run more than 3 servos. I have a 3D nitro job with 5 servos, it does the same thing as the 5 servo Piper Cub, also nitro.

I have purchased two new 2100Mah / 6.0V Ni-Mh packs to see if I can get this to work correctly. It is my intent on the cub to try 1 pack powering just the RX and one pack powering just the servos.

I have to be honest, this whole 2.4ghz non-sense isn't very confidence inspiring to a noob getting back into it after 20 year away. Back in the day, I'd charge up my 4.8V batt pack and it would run every servo I needed it to, but it never completely lost connectivity.

FYI, the beeping comes at the same moment the blue light flashes on the TX and the RX seems to lose it's signal. Sounds very much like the voltage is being tugged down and the RX is indeed dort of "browning" out.

My biggest concern is on the 3D plane. I only have enough room for a single battery pack with that 5 servo set-up. I hope a 2100Mah / 6.0V can actually operate it correctly.
Thanks everyone, you guys are great!







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RE: Trouble with Hi-Tec Optic 6 Sport 2.4 Radio.....>... - 3/14/2012 5:40 PM   
MikeMayberry



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Status: offline 		The blue light and beeping means that the RX voltages is dropping to/or below 4.4v... if you reach 3.5v you will brown out the system. While the older 72Mhz system had a lower minimum operating voltage it still doesn't mean that your battery voltage wasn't sagging significantly and that the pack wasn't marginal and affecting servo performance. Using a 5 cell pack provides more headroom over the brownout voltage but any pack you use should not drop more than about .8v under the load of the servos in any particular model. The 2100mah 6v packs you purchased... if they are AA size then they too have fairly high internal resistance so under high loads, their voltage will sag as well... if they drop to 5.5v the same blue light and beeping will occur indicating that you are asking too much out of them. Most people have no idea about this voltage drop, but now with the built in battery telemetry, it's opened peoples eyes to this.

Mike.

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RE: Trouble with Hi-Tec Optic 6 Sport 2.4 Radio.....>... - 3/14/2012 6:36 PM   
Taz_Hobbies


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeMayberry

The blue light and beeping means that the RX voltages is dropping to/or below 4.4v... if you reach 3.5v you will brown out the system. While the older 72Mhz system had a lower minimum operating voltage it still doesn't mean that your battery voltage wasn't sagging significantly and that the pack wasn't marginal and affecting servo performance. Using a 5 cell pack provides more headroom over the brownout voltage but any pack you use should not drop more than about .8v under the load of the servos in any particular model. The 2100mah 6v packs you purchased... if they are AA size then they too have fairly high internal resistance so under high loads, their voltage will sag as well... if they drop to 5.5v the same blue light and beeping will occur indicating that you are asking too much out of them. Most people have no idea about this voltage drop, but now with the built in battery telemetry, it's opened peoples eyes to this.

Mike.


Mike,

First off, thank you. I appreciate everyone chiming in. You guys are awesome.

I powered the receiver with a 4.8V / AA pack of regular Duracell batts to test. Powered the servo side with a 4.8V Ni-Mh pack. Everything works perfectly as it should.

My question to you is that I have two 3D planes I had planned to use this radio in, each use 5 servos. If the 2100 AA packs I bought are marginal, and I do have the room to use use two separate packs as I described above (my piper cub has plenty of room for them) what size / type / capacity battery do you suggest I use in the fun fly / 3D planes? I have no problem buying what I need, I am just realizing that what I used know does not apply any longer and I hate to buy 10 battery packs to experiment with. I'd rather just get the best bang for my applications. I am guessing Ni-Mh, sub-c packs as lightweight as i can get, but what capacity?

Thanks again. With this awesome Hi-Tec support, you can guarantee I'll be buying the Aurora 9 for my Seagull Ultimate and my Giant 91" Santich Hots.

Taz.



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RE: Trouble with Hi-Tec Optic 6 Sport 2.4 Radio.....>... - 3/14/2012 6:38 PM   
Taz_Hobbies


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeMayberry

The blue light and beeping means that the RX voltages is dropping to/or below 4.4v... if you reach 3.5v you will brown out the system. While the older 72Mhz system had a lower minimum operating voltage it still doesn't mean that your battery voltage wasn't sagging significantly and that the pack wasn't marginal and affecting servo performance. Using a 5 cell pack provides more headroom over the brownout voltage but any pack you use should not drop more than about .8v under the load of the servos in any particular model. The 2100mah 6v packs you purchased... if they are AA size then they too have fairly high internal resistance so under high loads, their voltage will sag as well... if they drop to 5.5v the same blue light and beeping will occur indicating that you are asking too much out of them. Most people have no idea about this voltage drop, but now with the built in battery telemetry, it's opened peoples eyes to this.

Mike.


Mike,

First off, thank you. I appreciate everyone chiming in. You guys are awesome.

I powered the receiver with a 4.8V / AA pack of regular Duracell batts to test. Powered the servo side with a 4.8V Ni-Mh pack. Everything works perfectly as it should.

My question to you is that I have two 3D planes I had planned to use this radio in, each use 5 servos. If the 2100 AA packs I bought are marginal, and I do have the room to use use two separate packs as I described above (my piper cub has plenty of room for them) what size / type / capacity battery do you suggest I use in the fun fly / 3D planes? I have no problem buying what I need, I am just realizing that what I used know does not apply any longer and I hate to buy 10 battery packs to experiment with. I'd rather just get the best bang for my applications. I am guessing Ni-Mh, sub-c packs as lightweight as i can get, but what capacity?

Thanks again. With this awesome Hi-Tec support, you can guarantee I'll be buying the Aurora 9 for my Seagull Ultimate and my Giant 91" Santich Hots.

Taz.



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RE: Trouble with Hi-Tec Optic 6 Sport 2.4 Radio.....>... - 3/14/2012 7:15 PM   
A.T.


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Taz_Hobbies    Mike,
First off, thank you. I appreciate everyone chiming in. You guys are awesome.
I powered the receiver with a 4.8V / AA pack of regular Duracell batts to test. Powered the servo side with a 4.8V Ni-Mh pack. Everything works perfectly as it should.  My question to you is that I have two 3D planes I had planned to use this radio in, each use 5 servos. If the 2100 AA packs I bought are marginal, and I do have the room to use use two separate packs as I described above (my piper cub has plenty of room for them) what size / type / capacity battery do you suggest I use in the fun fly / 3D planes? I have no problem buying what I need, I am just realizing that what I used know does not apply any longer and I hate to buy 10 battery packs to experiment with. I'd rather just get the best bang for my applications. I am guessing Ni-Mh, sub-c packs as lightweight as i can get, but what capacity? Thanks again. With this awesome Hi-Tec support, you can guarantee I'll be buying the Aurora 9 for my Seagull Ultimate and my Giant 91" Santich Hots.  Taz.  


Those packs should be quite adequate as outlined under  post #5:
. Optima Transceiver (RX) - Battery set up for Nitro/Gas models  - caution re NiMH & Alert re LiFE
NB: NiMH do not reach full performance until they have been cycled at least three times.

To bring yourself upto date with all the features of your new Optic 6 Sport and the differences
with your earlier PPM systems, suggest you take time out to read the information made available
post #5. Compiled and regularily updated of similar FAQ from international forums.

Alan T.

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RE: Trouble with Hi-Tec Optic 6 Sport 2.4 Radio.....>... - 3/14/2012 11:48 PM   
Taz_Hobbies


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: A.T.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Taz_Hobbies    Mike,
First off, thank you. I appreciate everyone chiming in. You guys are awesome.
I powered the receiver with a 4.8V / AA pack of regular Duracell batts to test. Powered the servo side with a 4.8V Ni-Mh pack. Everything works perfectly as it should.  My question to you is that I have two 3D planes I had planned to use this radio in, each use 5 servos. If the 2100 AA packs I bought are marginal, and I do have the room to use use two separate packs as I described above (my piper cub has plenty of room for them) what size / type / capacity battery do you suggest I use in the fun fly / 3D planes? I have no problem buying what I need, I am just realizing that what I used know does not apply any longer and I hate to buy 10 battery packs to experiment with. I'd rather just get the best bang for my applications. I am guessing Ni-Mh, sub-c packs as lightweight as i can get, but what capacity? Thanks again. With this awesome Hi-Tec support, you can guarantee I'll be buying the Aurora 9 for my Seagull Ultimate and my Giant 91" Santich Hots.  Taz.  


Those packs should be quite adequate as outlined under  post #5:
. Optima Transceiver (RX) - Battery set up for Nitro/Gas models  - caution re NiMH & Alert re LiFE
NB: NiMH do not reach full performance until they have been cycled at least three times.

To bring yourself upto date with all the features of your new Optic 6 Sport and the differences
with your earlier PPM systems, suggest you take time out to read the information made available
post #5. Compiled and regularily updated of similar FAQ from international forums.

Alan T.


Excellent stuff Alan!

Thanks much. I know very little about the A123 batteries. I am inclined to stick with a ni-mh or even a li-po as I am set-up and reasonably up to speed on them.
I fooled around today with a few combinations and it is most certainly the battery low voltage situation as you all pretty much knew!

I have a couple of brand new li-po batts sitting here ready to use, I have a 7.4V / 2S / 1500 pack that would fit perfect in my 3d plane, but I am not sure the 1500mah is enough.

Again, thanks very much to everyone.









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