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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> Gas Engines >> New DLE 20 won't start
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New DLE 20 won't start - 3/19/2012 2:03 AM   
dash008


 

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Status: offline 		I have been attempting to start my new DLE 20 that I have installed on a new Seagull Yak. This is my first gasser so I want to make sure that I am not doing something wrong.

Started by trying to turn it over by hand that wasn't bringing the fuel to the carb so I eventually used my electric starter. Turned it over for several minutes with my electric starter with both choke on and off and all I managed to do is make a mess out of my driveway. The engine never even popped once. Figured that I had it flooded so I put it away.

Tried again today and still no luck. Went over all the connections from the engine to the ignition module and everything is hooked up correctly. Check the battery it had a full charge. Checked voltage through the switch everything was good there. Finally I pulled the spark plug out and plugged the lead into it and turned ignition on and pulled the prop through and I was not seeing a spark on the spark plug. Tried that again with a different spark plug. No luck. it was not sparking either. Made sure it was pushed in all the way. Pushed it in as far as it would go until the spark plug lead was all the way down to the threads still no spark.

I must have a bad ignition module right? Is there anything I might have missed?

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RE: New DLE 20 won't start - 3/19/2012 2:23 AM   
helodrvr


 

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Status: offline 		Check out post #23 in this thread.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8673009/tm.htm

Shows you how to test the ignition.

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RE: New DLE 20 won't start - 3/19/2012 2:26 AM   
soarrich



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Status: offline 		Bad ignition switch? Try plugging the ignition into the battery.

It might be the pickup sensor.

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RE: New DLE 20 won't start - 3/19/2012 2:29 AM   
coronabob


 

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Status: offline 		It could also be your hall sensor. Try this to find out if your hall sensor is the problem. With your plug out like you had it checking for sparks, unplug and plug in the battery. Upon initial power up of the ignition, you will get one spark if the ignition is good. If you don't the hall sensor is bad.

If you are comfortable with simple electricity, you can also try this. The three wires in the connector that you plug the hall sensor into are red, black and white. This is one of two three-wired connectors that come out of your ignition. The one marked TACHOMETER is not it. It's the other one. Every time you momentarily touch the white wire to the black wire you will get one spark. This is how the hall sensor does it. It senses the magnet mounted on the propeller hub and pulls the white wire signal to ground.

With the touch test, if you don't get any spark the ignition is dead. I have multiple engines and have yet had a bad luck of getting a dead ignition out of the box. Hope I never will.

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RE: New DLE 20 won't start - 3/19/2012 2:38 AM   
dash008


 

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Status: offline 		Thank you all that is some good information! So if If I plug the ignition module directly into the battery and short out the white and black leads on the hall sensor wire then I should get a spark is that correct?

I will go out and try that after the pizza gets here. :-)

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RE: New DLE 20 won't start - 3/19/2012 4:43 AM   
Antique



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Status: offline 		The ignition will spark when turned on and off whether the sensor is plugged in or not...If it does not spark, it's bad...when you plug the sensor and rotate the crank it should spark once each rotation...If not the sensor is bad...

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RE: New DLE 20 won't start - 3/19/2012 5:12 AM   
dash008


 

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Status: offline 		Went through the steps from the link posted above. had good voltage across the red and black leads. Got a spark when I jumped the white and black leads. Then plug it back into the sensor and flip the prop and all of a sudden now it's sparking properly. I don't know why it wasn't before. I thought it was plugged in well enough before and it was even plugged in well enough to get the little plastic safety thing over both leads so I don't know, I guess I just didn't have it plugged in good enough or something because it's working as advertised now. I'm glad I figured it out anyway. And thanks for the help from the members of this board, at least I feel like I know a little bit more about the workings of electronic ignition systems from this exercise.

I will try running it again tomorrow! Thanks again!!

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RE: New DLE 20 won't start - 3/19/2012 5:35 AM   
soarrich



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Status: offline 		With you being new I think we should add that you have to really push the sparkplug cap down on the plug hard, it should pretty much cover the hex or it's not on all the way and will give you RF problems.

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RE: New DLE 20 won't start - 3/19/2012 6:24 AM   
TimBle


 

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Status: offline 		The little servo plug connectors on the eletronic hardware of the ignition should all be a snug fit. If its even remotely loose you will get intermittent contact.

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RE: New DLE 20 won't start - 3/19/2012 7:05 AM   
dash008


 

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Status: offline 		It was plugged in all the way. I even had the little clear plastic safety thing on it... I don't get it.

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RE: New DLE 20 won't start - 3/19/2012 8:41 AM   
a1pcfixer



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Antique

The ignition will spark when turned on and off whether the sensor is plugged in or not...If it does not spark, it's bad...when you plug the sensor and rotate the crank it should spark once each rotation...If not the sensor is bad...


...or the sensor got inserted upside down.

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RE: New DLE 20 won't start - 3/19/2012 9:06 AM   
ameyam


 

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Status: offline 		I would troubleshoot like this:

Check all the wiring (black to black) making sure everything is snug. They provide a plastic retaining clip with the DLE20. If you cant install it, your connector is not snug

Push the plug cap all the way down

Connect battery direct to ignition first without going thru switch

Choke and run till it pops.

Then go through the switch

If any one of these is not proper, that would be your problem. There is another one I encountered at field- conventionally we install our switches so that switch towards tail is on. But we tend to start from the engine side. This one time I pulled the switch towards the engine and wondered for the next 1 hour why the engine wouldnt start
Wouldnt happen on a glow as we would operate the switch from behind the airplane, then get to the front and start the engine

Ameyam

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RE: New DLE 20 won't start - 3/19/2012 12:45 PM   
rfbenn


 

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Status: offline 		If you haven't already swap the stock DLE spark plug for a NGK CM-6, the DLE plugs are notorious for failing/not working/falling apart etc.

Other than that a great little engine.

Rob

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RE: New DLE 20 won't start - 3/19/2012 2:23 PM   
gwweber


 

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Status: offline 		that ignition also has a output for a tach i think.    Is it plugged in correctly?

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RE: New DLE 20 won't start - 3/19/2012 3:25 PM   
willig10


 

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Status: offline 		 Ensure you have a 4.8 volt battery not a 6 volt battery. Also ensure the low and high end needles are set to factory specs prior to starting. Adjust the needles after starting to the correct ratio. I always kill the engine make an adjustment then restart. 

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RE: New DLE 20 won't start - 3/19/2012 4:40 PM   
Daddyo57



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Status: offline 		One thing I noticed with my new DLE 20, same thing, it wouldnt start at first, I finally (with ignition OFF) put carb on full choke and part throttle and spun the engine with my electric starter for about 2 or 3 seconds, turned choke off and ignition on and she fired right up... it seems to take more fuel to start it than i would have thought. Now, that is how i start it every time with no problems at all. Hope this helps...

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RE: New DLE 20 won't start - 3/23/2012 6:43 PM   
dash008


 

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Status: offline 		Ok, got my new DLE 20 running the other night. Now that the ignition problem is fixed it fired right up by hand flipping it, no starter required. This is my first gas engine. Some observations:

1. Boy is this thing loud!
2. I had the throttle what I thought was just cracked and when it fired up it was going what felt like half throttle. Scared the hell out of me!!
3. I didn't mess with either of the needles and it seemed to idle and run pretty good.
4. Not a lot of mid range. Seems like it is either idle or WOT! Not sure that I like that.
5. Shook the plane like crazy. And I have one of those Dubro anti-vibe mounts.
6. A lot of power!
7. No slime on plane. Yay!



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RE: New DLE 20 won't start - 3/23/2012 6:56 PM   
coronabob


 

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Status: offline 		It has a wide mid range. However, I'll have to agree that for gassers from about 2/3 to WOT there is not a whole lot of difference by the way it sounds. RPM check might prove otherwise. Check your linkage for why you are not getting any mid range. The throw (angular displacement) on gas carbs is much less than that of a glow.

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RE: New DLE 20 won't start - 3/23/2012 7:12 PM   
dash008


 

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Status: offline 		I think I might need a longer throttle arm. I am using the little phenolic thing that came with it. Also I may redo my servo to match the diagram I noticed in the other thread. Starting out at 0 degrees, etc... Any suggestions for a throttle arm?

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RE: New DLE 20 won't start - 3/23/2012 9:00 PM   
ec121


 

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Status: offline 		I take a piece of scrap aluminum and use the holes in the arm to bolt the aluminum down. You can make an arm as long as you want and drill it for the pushrod. I have also cut a notch the width of the throttle shaft in the new arm and slid it over the shaft and only use one hole in the existing arm for the bolt. With this method you can also make an offset arm if needed.

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RE: New DLE 20 won't start - 3/23/2012 9:04 PM   
Texastbird


 

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Status: offline 		http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/items/TBMCARBARMSL.html
I have a set of these on a DLE 30. There are other brands available.

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RE: New DLE 20 won't start - 3/24/2012 1:26 AM   
ahicks


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dash008

I think I might need a longer throttle arm. I am using the little phenolic thing that came with it. Also I may redo my servo to match the diagram I noticed in the other thread. Starting out at 0 degrees, etc... Any suggestions for a throttle arm?



The phenolic one that comes with them should work fine if everything else is right. It usually is a geometry issue, but not there. You know about the diagram, that's a good place to start. Just keep in mind that the throttle is already making most of it's power by time it's half open? You need to spread that first half across most of the stick/servo travel to calm that first half down a little. WAY too touchy down low otherwise. That's why that servo is pointing nearly right at the engine on idle.

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RE: New DLE 20 won't start - 3/24/2012 2:25 AM   
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Status: offline 		The linkage must be set up right to get anything like linear throttle response. Look at the drawing I made. Nottice whtn you first advance the servo the linkage does not move much, right and left. The position on the carb lever is such that it turns the shaft the least amount possible at the ilde up part of the throw. As the trhottle opens the servo and carb get more purchase and move more. After about 1/3 the rotation of the carb butterfly you are probably at 90% power. You want to do business in the first part of the butterfly movement.

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