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New 2.4 8FG receiver question - 3/22/2012 3:02 PM   
Jsbrittain


 

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Status: offline 		 I'm new to the 2.4 radios, I have the Futaba 8fg and I see guys at my club flying Spectrum. They are flying 30 & 50cc planes and they both have remote antennas hooked up to they're receivers. 

I have installed my stuff in a 73" CAP 232 w/ OS 1.60 nitro will I need a remote antenna or is this a Spectum thing?


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RE: New 2.4 8FG receiver question - 3/22/2012 3:24 PM   
tenspeed59


 

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Status: offline 		Yes you want to run the remote reciever so get the Spektrum 2.4 GhZ Transmitter and reciever and install them in place of the Futaba equipment.

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RE: New 2.4 8FG receiver question - 3/22/2012 3:41 PM   
BuschBarber


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jsbrittain

 I'm new to the 2.4 radios, I have the Futaba 8fg and I see guys at my club flying Spectrum. They are flying 30 & 50cc planes and they both have remote antennas hooked up to they're receivers. 

I have installed my stuff in a 73'' CAP 232 w/ OS 1.60 nitro will I need a remote antenna or is this a Spectum thing?


Remote Receivers are provided with JR/Spektrum 2.4 receivers. Depending upon the model receiver, there may be anywhere from 1-4 Remote receivers. You will not find them on Futaba, Hitec, or Airtronics. For JR/Spektrum, they are required to Bind, however, if they fail in flight, the main receiver will still function.

They provide extra security in case the signal is blocked or interfered with. There is also a Flight Logger tool that can Detect and Display data such as Antenna Fades, Frame Losses, and Holds (Failsafe Events), to help analyze the operation of the receivers.

I see them as an advantage rather than an inconvenience.

They are not required for Futaba receivers and there is no provision to add them.

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RE: New 2.4 8FG receiver question - 3/22/2012 4:02 PM   
Silent-AV8R



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quote:

ORIGINAL: BuschBarber

They provide extra security in case the signal is blocked or interfered with.


I would not go so far as say that they provide "extra" security. What they do is provide the type and array of antenna arrangement that the JR/Spektrum radios require to maintain reliable communication with the transmitter. It is simply how this system works.

quote:


They are not required for Futaba receivers and there is no provision to add them.


And this is how the Futaba system works. It does not require additional components/satellites to provide a reliable link between the plane and transmitter.

Both work as designed. One generally requires multiple receivers/satellites for a reliable link and the others only require a single receiver to provide a reliable link.


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RE: New 2.4 8FG receiver question - 3/22/2012 6:02 PM   
DougV


 

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Status: online 		"I'm new to the 2.4 radios, I have the Futaba 8fg and I see guys at my club flying Spectrum. They are flying 30 & 50cc planes and they both have remote antennas hooked up to they're receivers.

I have installed my stuff in a 73" CAP 232 w/ OS 1.60 nitro will I need a remote antenna or is this a Spectum thing?"



All you need is the 2 Futaba antennas at 90* and you are done! go fly.

Doug.

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RE: New 2.4 8FG receiver question - 3/22/2012 7:42 PM   
Jsbrittain


 

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RE: New 2.4 8FG receiver question - 3/23/2012 2:16 AM   
acdii


 

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Status: offline 		The difference between the Spektrum and Futaba RX antennas is simply their length. If you measure out the Futaba wires and the Spektrum wires on both the rx and sat, they should be pretty equal in length.   What Spektrum does is adds an additional amplifier and puts the antenna plane at both  horizontal and vertical so it has a better field of view of the signal so no matter what attitude the plane is to the TX, it should always see the signal.

Futaba just uses two equal length wires and they are set at 90* to each other.  My guess is Futaba has an amplifier that works quite different than Spektrum ones, because even their non sat RX has two different length wires in it. Since they are not compatible with each other, the way they process signals is very different too, which goes back to the antenna orientations.

The only thing between all 2.4 radios that remains the same is, they transmit on 2.4 Ghz and use multiple channels. FHSS hops between channels, SS locks onto two channels, but I dont yet know how FASST works.

Some good tips on mounting the RX.

http://www.futaba-rc.com/techsupport/receiver-tips.html

Edit: One thing I forgot, been quite a few years since I took the wireless classes, but this just popped into my head regarding the antennas, and it dawned on me about the Spektrum RX. In fact the Spektrum RX is in a sense a better RX for 2.4 Ghz. Reason being is antenna diversity. Have you ever noticed the wireless access points have 2 antennas, and now the N band have 3? Its because of signal diversity. The signal at 2.4 works totally different than 72Mhz. It is susceptible to Multipath distortion, and since the wave length is so small, it can arrive at the RX at two different rates, so the RX has to process those signals based on the strongest one seen. The more antenna, the better chance of picking up a strong signal no matter what attitude the plane is at.  Since Spektrum transmits wide band the signal is spread out wider, so diversity is important.

The Futaba RX doesnt use multiple antennas mainly because of how it transmits its signals. Since it does frequency hopping it sends the signal out at a tighter band, but jumps around the band and can deal with weak signals better.



< Message edited by acdii -- 3/23/2012 2:45 AM >

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RE: New 2.4 8FG receiver question - 3/23/2012 2:56 AM   
BuschBarber


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: acdii

The difference between the Spektrum and Futaba RX antennas is simply their length. If you measure out the Futaba wires and the Spektrum wires on both the rx and sat, they should be pretty equal in length.   What Spektrum does is adds an additional amplifier and puts the antenna plane at both  horizontal and vertical so it has a better field of view of the signal so no matter what attitude the plane is to the TX, it should always see the signal.

Futaba just uses two equal length wires and they are set at 90* to each other.  My guess is Futaba has an amplifier that works quite different than Spektrum ones, because even their non sat RX has two different length wires in it. Since they are not compatible with each other, the way they process signals is very different too, which goes back to the antenna orientations.

The only thing between all 2.4 radios that remains the same is, they transmit on 2.4 Ghz and use multiple channels. FHSS hops between channels, SS locks onto two channels, but I dont yet know how FASST works.

Some good tips on mounting the RX.

http://www.futaba-rc.com/techsupport/receiver-tips.html

Edit: One thing I forgot, been quite a few years since I took the wireless classes, but this just popped into my head regarding the antennas, and it dawned on me about the Spektrum RX. In fact the Spektrum RX is in a sense a better RX for 2.4 Ghz. Reason being is antenna diversity. Have you ever noticed the wireless access points have 2 antennas, and now the N band have 3? Its because of signal diversity. The signal at 2.4 works totally different than 72Mhz. It is susceptible to Multipath distortion, and since the wave length is so small, it can arrive at the RX at two different rates, so the RX has to process those signals based on the strongest one seen. The more antenna, the better chance of picking up a strong signal no matter what attitude the plane is at.  Since Spektrum transmits wide band the signal is spread out wider, so diversity is important.

The Futaba RX doesnt use multiple antennas mainly because of how it transmits its signals. Since it does frequency hopping it sends the signal out at a tighter band, but jumps around the band and can deal with weak signals better.




DSM2 uses 2 channels. DSMX uses Frequency Hopping.

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RE: New 2.4 8FG receiver question - 3/23/2012 3:26 AM   
DougV


 

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Status: online 		"The Futaba RX doesnt use multiple antennas mainly because of how it transmits its signals. Since it does frequency hopping it sends the signal out at a tighter band, but jumps around the band and can deal with weak signals better."

All Futaba Air receivers use diversity antennas, except the 6 and 4 channel receivers.

Spektrum receivers use a dipole antenna, with the satellites; they are imitating a RAKE configuration

Doug.

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RE: New 2.4 8FG receiver question - 3/23/2012 12:44 PM   
Jsbrittain


 

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Status: offline 		Thanx guys that eases my mind and I'm confident I have it installed properly
Thank you for all your comments and time!

Scott


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RE: New 2.4 8FG receiver question - 3/23/2012 3:42 PM   
BuschBarber


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DougV

''The Futaba RX doesnt use multiple antennas mainly because of how it transmits its signals. Since it does frequency hopping it sends the signal out at a tighter band, but jumps around the band and can deal with weak signals better.''

All Futaba Air receivers use diversity antennas, except the 6 and 4 channel receivers.

Spektrum receivers use a dipole antenna, with the satellites; they are imitating a RAKE configuration

Doug.


This may help clear things up a bit.

http://www.rcmodelreviews.com/dx8dsmxreview.shtml

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RE: New 2.4 8FG receiver question - 3/23/2012 5:26 PM   
DougV


 

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Status: online 		Hi Rich,

Yes, I’m well aware of the difference between DSMX, DSM2 and FASST protocols, my reply (quote below) was about the difference in the RX antennas between Futaba and Spektrum.

“All Futaba Air receivers use diversity antennas, except the 6 and 4 channel receivers.

Spektrum receivers use a dipole antenna, with the satellites; they are imitating a RAKE configuration”

Thanks,
Doug.


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RE: New 2.4 8FG receiver question - 3/23/2012 5:51 PM   
BuschBarber


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DougV

Hi Rich,

Yes, I’m well aware of the difference between DSMX, DSM2 and FASST protocols, my reply (quote below) was about the difference in the RX antennas between Futaba and Spektrum.

“All Futaba Air receivers use diversity antennas, except the 6 and 4 channel receivers.

Spektrum receivers use a dipole antenna, with the satellites; they are imitating a RAKE configuration”

Thanks,
Doug.



Thanks Doug.

I just came across that article and I thought those reading this thread might be interested.

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RE: New 2.4 8FG receiver question - 4/18/2012 7:43 AM   
chuckk2


 

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Status: offline 		Actually, Spectrum has some "full range" receivers that use multiple antennas without sat receivers . The AR600 DSM2/DSMX is one, and there are others intended for use with carbon fiber situations. The only problems I've had so far were eventually (process of elimination) assigned to linkage binding problems, low BEC output current, or digital servos causing voltage dropouts. Perhaps the most interesting one was loss of control, with all the servos returning to receiver power on default, and only aileron control. The plane was landed in the high grass, without damage. After the flight, post operation checks were normal, as were the multiple range checks at TX reduced and full power. Even though the number of servos were within the speed control BEC ratings, it was possible that one of the flap servos was drawing too much current in the flap up position. Re adjustment so that the flap was not driven against the stop, and use of an external BEC with 5A capacity seemed to completely solve the problem.

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RE: New 2.4 8FG receiver question - 4/18/2012 7:52 AM   
chuckk2


 

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Status: offline 		One little thing that might cause intermittent problems - - What happens when a plane is in the air, and another flier on the same field starts a binding process? Can this result in momentary loss of control, etc. ???? Will the binding process with the same or different transmitters have any impact? What about cross interference between different 2.4G schemes? Or, say between Futaba and Spectrum, etc.

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RE: New 2.4 8FG receiver question - 4/18/2012 1:58 PM   
acdii


 

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Status: offline 		When you first turn the TX on it does a frequency scan, so it will see the other TX that is flying so it wont interfere. It doesn't matter which brand radio is out there either, frequencies are frequencies, the only difference is how they manipulate the signal on that frequency.  When you fire up the Futaba you will see it display frequency check or something like that, at that stage it is not transmitting. In fact if you happen to have a switch out of position, or throttle applied it wont transmit until you acknowledge the alarm, or move the switch/throttle.

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RE: New 2.4 8FG receiver question - 4/18/2012 3:03 PM   
BuschBarber


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chuckk2

One little thing that might cause intermittent problems - - What happens when a plane is in the air, and another flier on the same field starts a binding process? Can this result in momentary loss of control, etc. ???? Will the binding process with the same or different transmitters have any impact? What about cross interference between different 2.4G schemes? Or, say between Futaba and Spectrum, etc.

When you Bind a 2.4 radio, the Receiver has to be in the Bind mode and receives the GUID from the transmitter it is Binding with. It will only talk to that transmitter (and Model Memory in the case of JR/Spektrum). The transmitter and receiver are not in the Bind mode while flying.

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RE: New 2.4 8FG receiver question - 4/18/2012 3:40 PM   
Silent-AV8R



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Status: offline 		Futaba radios link, not bind. There is no "link" mode. Simple one step process. You will not cause any problems to others flying if you do it at the field. The necessity for re-binding at the field as is common with some other brands is virtually non-existent with Futaba equipment.

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RE: New 2.4 8FG receiver question - 4/18/2012 3:57 PM   
BarracudaHockey



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Status: online 		In any case, the only way to cause a problem during binding is to have two systems trying to bind in close proximity at exactly the same time.

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RE: New 2.4 8FG receiver question - 4/18/2012 7:38 PM   
acdii


 

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