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RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way... - 4/10/2012 3:33 PM

Fontanooch

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Why all of the BS on gas. I have been flying for 40 years all gas engines. I mix the oil/gas store it in a 5 gal plastic gas can and go fly. Never has a problem with hoses, clogged lines, rebuilt carbs ect. I leave the gas in the tank in the plane when done.

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RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way... - 4/10/2012 6:09 PM

Truckracer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fontanooch

Why all of the BS on gas. I have been flying for 40 years all gas engines. I mix the oil/gas store it in a 5 gal plastic gas can and go fly. Never has a problem with hoses, clogged lines, rebuilt carbs ect. I leave the gas in the tank in the plane when done.

Well, all the BS because some people certainly do have problems with the pump gas in their area. Like you, I am lucky and have never had any sort of problem with the fuels I have available. I hope that luck continues.

All in all it makes for an interesting discussion and the info helps make one aware of what is going on in other parts of the country / world. I especially find it interesting how the majority of people with problems insist on blaming ethanol for all their problems when that is just one component in the complex gas formula.

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RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way... - 4/10/2012 6:21 PM

TimBle

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indeed, also there's so much dogma out there on gasoline that it's a worthwhile exercise spending a few pages and getting a little below the surface and burst some of the dogma bubbles.

Amazingly its a product each and every one of uses every single day yet know so little about. As long as it burns and our vehicles move we pay no attention to it.

When something goes wrong, its the first place people look for problems even if the problems come from elsewhere.

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RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way... - 4/10/2012 7:12 PM

Brian Smith

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Are there some 2 stroke oils that are "not" ethanol compatible?? Just wondring which ones?? I have been using Pennzoil 2 cyl oil for air cooler engines for years with all types of gas and I can't remember my last problem.. Brian

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it's not a probem if the 2 stroke oil is ethanol compatible....

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RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way... - 4/10/2012 8:42 PM

TimBle

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Oh yeah there are still 2 stroke oils out there not compatible with Ethanol.

The level of ethanol in the fuel is of course important. I can't share restricted reports but found some reference to incompatibility in this report conducted by Dartmouth University in the UK:

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~ethanolboat/Ethanol_Outboard_Final_Report.pdf

Generally the synthetics 2 stroke motor oils are compatible and the mineral oils that are compatible will cary some information around this in their technical data sheet.

At E2, there are very little incompatible.

at E5 some mineral oils will drop off suspension at low temperature and at high temp they exhibit reactions that creates residues.

at E10 then the the synthetics (PIB's ) come into their own.

E25 qnd higher the Group III, Group IV and Group V base oils are really whats required.

If you're unertain, then pull up the TDS or MDS for the oil you wan.t to use and ring up the Oilco tha markets it and ask their tech rep about compatibility. Try to speak to a STLE endorsed Certified Lubricant Specialist if you can

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RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way... - 4/11/2012 1:56 AM

captinjohn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fontanooch

Why all of the BS on gas. I have been flying for 40 years all gas engines. I mix the oil/gas store it in a 5 gal plastic gas can and go fly. Never has a problem with hoses, clogged lines, rebuilt carbs ect. I leave the gas in the tank in the plane when done.

Leaving some gas in the tank is one reason you gas engines keep running good. All my yard power equipment runs good too....I never drain the gas out when done with them. Wow, some of you people need to learn the right way to do this RC Hobby ! Capt,n

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RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way... - 4/11/2012 2:03 AM

captinjohn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: osxpro

I've solved the problem by simply getting premium non-ethanol gas. There is only ONE place in town that sells it. Sure, It's 50 cents a gallon more but @ $4.50 a gallon, it's still a helleva lot cheaper than 30% nitro glow @ $30.00 a gallon.
You can find a station near you @:
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp

Many marinas sell non-ethanol gas since the stuff kills boat motors. I put the gas in my truck and I get 3-4 gallons more per mile too. Sure, It costs me $10.00 more a fill up but it'll save me in the long run since I won't be having to change fuel lines, hoses, fuel injectors, etc later on. My truck doesn't ping and knock either like it does on ethanol cr@p.

Personally, I believe ethanol gas is the biggest scam ever perpetrated on Americans in present day America. But I digress....

I buy the stuff for all my lawn equipment and planes.I cannot tell you how much better both of those things run better with NON ETHANOL!

You are exactly right. It is easy to find in Florida. Just a tad more in price...but well worth every penny. It is sometimes call recreatonal fuel. Capt,n

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RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way... - 4/11/2012 5:31 AM

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I think we have established that some areas have problems with the available fuel, and some don't. So I don't really understand the posts that say, "WELL I DON'T have any problems with fuel so you guys must be crazy or doing something wrong." (Or similar comments.) This does nothing to address the issue. And once again, I am not convinced it is ethanol that causes the problems; but perhaps other additives and combinations of additives with ethanol that might cause the problems.

I buy large lots of unwanted/discarded gas power equipment from various sources in the Tucson area, and have done so for years. Virtually 90% of the machines have some sort of a fuel system degradation. Do you think I would bother using a special "storage fuel" in my airplanes if it wasn't necessary? No way, but I got tired of having carb problems and having to rebuild the carbs every two months or less, and never knowing when the flop tube in my fuel tank was going to go stiff and kill the engine when I flew inverted.

The problem is real.

AV8TOR

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RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way... - 4/11/2012 11:14 PM

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.

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RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way... - 4/12/2012 1:14 AM

av8tor1977

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What? No comments about my "fuel tube on Viagra"?

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RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way... - 4/12/2012 4:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: av8tor1977

What? No comments about my ''fuel tube on Viagra''?

AV8TOR

I thought it was phunny....

But what we really need inside a tank is tubing on Dixaphloppin; the linguini just needs to hang there, eh?

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RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way... - 4/12/2012 4:34 PM

acdii

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Ain't nothing like getting a stiffy when you least need it to be.

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RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way... - 4/12/2012 4:35 PM

earlwb

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Yeah going stiff when you are out in public isn't good either.

I wonder if those new Roto Fuel tanks that are clunkless would help with the problem or not.

www.jlproducts.net/ProductRotoFlow.html

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RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way... - 4/12/2012 4:40 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: earlwb

Yeah going stiff when you are out in public isn't good either.

I wonder if those new Roto Fuel tanks that are clunkless would help with the problem or not.

www.jlproducts.net/ProductRotoFlow.html

Actually, don't they have a clunk, it just is at the end of the rotating joint pickup line?

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RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way... - 4/12/2012 7:32 PM

TimBle

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what material is that fuel line av8or?

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RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way... - 4/12/2012 8:27 PM

captinjohn

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AV8TOR...ya, what is the brand of the tubing that got a "stiffy" Really do not want that brand. There is better tubing around I bet ! Capt,n

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RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way... - 4/13/2012 12:27 AM

darrolair

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I use Tygon F 4040 in my gas jug and it has done the same "stiffy". I agree with Av8tor. Some areas have problems and some don't. So for someone to say there are NO problems with todays fuels, they haven't been every where.

Also I believe leaving gas in the fuel tank may help for the line in the tank from becoming stiff if the vent line is plugged. Other wise the fuel will evaporate. One would also have to shrink wrap the carberator or in 3 months or so it will evaporate also through the vent hole on the bottom of the carby. So for one to say do it the RIGHT WAY, just what is the RIGHT WAY?

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RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way... - 4/13/2012 12:59 AM

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There really isnt one or we would already be doing it. There really needs to be an after run fuel to put in the tank to store it that doesn't evaporate and leave junk behind that we can flush out when we want to fly again, like that stuff used to run through a sprayer. Something compatible with gas that can be burned in it, and can mix with gas. So basically when you are done flying and want to put it away for a while, you fill the tank, flip the prop to prime the carb with it and plug the vent. Then when you take it out of storage, just pump gas through the tank, forcing the storage fluid out until you fill a reservoir the same size of your tank. Run up the engine for a few minutes until it runs on the fuel again and go fly.

That expensive gas in a can might be a good candidate, depends on what is in it.

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RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way... - 4/13/2012 2:30 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: acdii

There really isnt one or we would already be doing it. There really needs to be an after run fuel to put in the tank to store it that doesn't evaporate and leave junk behind that we can flush out when we want to fly again, like that stuff used to run through a sprayer. Something compatible with gas that can be burned in it, and can mix with gas. So basically when you are done flying and want to put it away for a while, you fill the tank, flip the prop to prime the carb with it and plug the vent. Then when you take it out of storage, just pump gas through the tank, forcing the storage fluid out until you fill a reservoir the same size of your tank. Run up the engine for a few minutes until it runs on the fuel again and go fly.

That expensive gas in a can might be a good candidate, depends on what is in it.

I fill my tank with Coleman's camp fuel mixed at the same oil ratio I use for running. Coleman's does not go stale or bad, does not smell bad, and evaporates at a slower rate (I think) than gasoline. If/when it evaporates it does not leave a mess behind, other than the oil. It can be safely run out of the engine after emptying the tank and refilling with "normal" fuel.
I even run the Coleman's in my low compression engines all the time, not just for startup after storage.

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RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way... - 4/13/2012 7:02 AM

TimBle

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I'm sure the problem is very real to some people and probably even in some areas, countries, and continents.

Without some factual information on a lot of things its hard to even assist with a solution.

Looking at the picture of Av8tors still fuel line it tells me that the material is incompatible with the fuel.

See the white staining about 2/3rd the way down, that indicates the material is being chemically attacked by the fuel.

Is the fuel a >E2?

can you dig up a local gasoline spec for Arizona? I'd be interested to see the aromatics and benzene percentage. Oxygen I'll bet is capped at 3.7%

DO you know if they allow MTBE, ETBE or TAME?

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RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way... - 4/13/2012 8:34 AM

av8tor1977

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The fuel line shown was either Hayes or Dubro from the hobby shop; I can't remember which. As for the gas specs., I don't know but I will see what I can find out.

The red fuel line in the pic is Ultralight Airplane primer tubing from California Power Systems. It holds up well, but is too stiff to use for clunk line tubing.

I now use an after run fuel that consists of Coleman Camp Fuel mixed 20:1 with Pennzoil for Air Cooled, and a dash of Sta-Bil for good measure. I run it in the engines after flying, and then leave it in the tanks. I DO NOT fly with it and would not even think of doing so. (Let's not start another debate on that.....) Anyway, this procedure has completely solved my fuel problems.

AV8TOR

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RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way... - 4/13/2012 10:28 AM

TimBle

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I do know that the Dubro fuel line is neoprene which is only compatible with pure hydrocarbon gasoline. It does not like being wet and then dry and then wet and dry repeatedly. With the fuel can when you run the fuel volume down, the neopreen gets dry and this repeated exposure to varying degrees of aromatics starts to make to swell and contract and swell and contract, eventually the rubber breaks down and embrittle through the moleculare chains being shortened. It eventually fails.

Ethanol fuels accelerate this.

If you can use Viton, or ptfe line if you can find. Try that out and let us know how it works out. Viton line is sold at most moped and scooter maintenance shops. Even Stihl sells viton line through their genuine parts system.

I believe with gasoline it is always best to leave the lines wet once they have seen fuel.

The same happens with silicon line used for glow fuel. Viton is most chemically resistant of the lot to my knowledge

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RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way... - 4/13/2012 4:14 PM

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So its safe to safe I can run the non ethinal in my DAs and not harm the engine? I wondered about this since my weedeater was only a couple years old and really started to run like crap till i switch gas.

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RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way... - 4/13/2012 5:26 PM

earlwb

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TimBle

DO you know if they allow MTBE, ETBE or TAME?

MTBE is more or less banned in the US and Europe too I think. I don't know if ETBE and TAME are banned but they might be too.
It started getting into the ground water and causing problems.

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RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way... - 3/12/2013 3:22 AM

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There are many more types of rubber and plastics that are resistant to ethanol than are resistant to gasoline that are and have been readily available to manufacturers for making engine seals , gaskets, diaphragms and hoses. Todays gasoline /ethanol mixtures should be no problem in our engines. Doubters can check chemical resistance charts for rubber and plastic resistance to ethanol versus gasoline.
A lot of bad press for ethanol in gasoline is generated by those who want to sell something.

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