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ys 170 - shutting down - 4/4/2012 11:17 AM   
mongol---


 

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From: asd, ANGUILLA
Status: offline 		Hi everyone,

After few months tat i try to fix the problem nothing changes so here it is :

The YS check valve :F4088 - image below, with the needle jump out and the engine ofcurse shutting down,
i dont know why the needle came out, i try to put it back and its look fine , its a little hard to put it back beacuse the shape of the needle , after that the engine works fine, its really sounds good and have a good power i hope so , 8000 RPM with 18X10 MEIZJLIK carbon prop,
i use with the soft mount of yamada - supermount 2. always the oil damper jump out too....

well im really confused and i dont know what to do, any idea?

Thanks. Taylor

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RE: ys 170 - shutting down - 4/4/2012 3:30 PM   
cdodom



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Status: offline 		Hey Taylor!!!

So the Needle jumps out of the Motor with the check valve while running? If that is the case it is a very easy fix. Using JB Weld you can put the injector back into the motor and after giving the JB weld 24 hours to fully activate it should be good as new. Make sure to clean everything with alcohol first to get a good surface to bond to.

Thank you,
Chris Odom

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RE: ys 170 - shutting down - 4/4/2012 3:36 PM   
NeilRivera


 

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Status: offline 		I had exactly the same problem and it was due most likely to a too lean running engine. I cleaned the hole in the head and the injector (needle )with alcohol and carefully applied JB Weld to the needle without getting it in the end and reinserted it. Let it cure at least 24 hours.... Hope this helps...i

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RE: ys 170 - shutting down - 4/5/2012 2:19 AM   
grcourtney


 

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Status: offline 		Put the needle bak in and use a pin punch and ding around the injector.. JB weld will work also but the thing about JB weld is its brittle and I have seen the needle come back out before due to the JB weld cracking.

either should work

Gary

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RE: ys 170 - shutting down - 4/6/2012 2:42 PM   
mongol---


 

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From: asd, ANGUILLA
Status: offline 		thanks very much for the replies,
what about the oil damper ? who keeps popping out , jumps out..

?

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RE: ys 170 - shutting down - 4/6/2012 2:50 PM   
NeilRivera


 

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Status: offline 		Oil damper jumping out sounds like the motor is having serious backfires which goes hand in hand with a very lean mixture. Also make sure that the timing has not been changed...

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RE: ys 170 - shutting down - 4/6/2012 10:56 PM   
apereira


 

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From: Caracas, VENEZUELA
Status: offline 		Taylor,

The shock issue it's very easy to fix, just cut two sleeves from fuel tubing about 5/64" thick, put them in the ball link(both) then install the shock, this will fix your problem for good.

Remember, if it has air or needs oil use Tamiya 500, the shock is also from Tamiya.

Make sure your engine is not running on the lean side, as both of your problems are often asociated with a lean condition, not saying it is, just preffer to mention it.

Best regards

Alejandro

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RE: ys 170 - shutting down - 4/7/2012 4:32 AM   
riot3d


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: apereira


Remember, if it has air or needs oil use Tamiya 500, the shock is also from Tamiya.




The Tamiya damper oil usually comes in a package of three different grades - 500, 600 & 700 - and I always use the middle grade, it doesn't make that much of a difference between 500 & 600. Since the temp & humidity at where I live - San Francisco, Bay Area - stays relatively the same year round, I chose to use the middle grade. I presume you can switch between the three if your summer & winter temp fluctuates a lot.

Adrian


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RE: ys 170 - shutting down - 4/7/2012 1:08 PM   
mongol---


 

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From: asd, ANGUILLA
Status: offline 		thanks again , well im very confused , i think that my engine is very lean, but another thing that im just not sure...

With my prop 18X10 the engine works well, the idle is very good and to full the regulator works ok too if i move from idle to full throttle its smooth and clean, but about the mixture, what should be the max RPM ? if today its 8000 at max ?
ofcurse if i try to change the mixture every 1 "click" make a diffrene so its a little hard to tune the engine at this way beacuse its changes everything i think so..

about the oil damper i put a fuel tube between the mount to the oil damper but i think that there is a backfire as said here... so how to fix that ?
i have an RPM metter if i say right...

is any idea ?

and neiviera howe do i check the timing ?

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RE: ys 170 - shutting down - 4/7/2012 7:18 PM   
lodomjr


 

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Status: offline 		Taylor,

To check the timing on this engine you have to remove the cam cover on the right side of the engine and the carb / rear housing from the back side of the engine. The rear housing is a rotary valve and it has a slot for the crank journal to fit in so it's important that get re-installed properly. With the engine open and you can see the crankshaft you will see a dot opposite the crankshaft journal. When you remove the cam cover you will also see a dot on the side of the cam gear. Gently rotate the engine crankshaft till the dot on the crank is aligned with the bottom seam of the engine, then look at the dot on the camshaft and if it's strait up and down then you timing is ok. If it is not gently pull the camshaft out and rotate the shaft until it is slightly left of top dead center. When the gear is back in place the dot will be strait up and down. Re-assemble and you should be ready to go. Remember the rotary valve from the rear of the engine has to go back on the crankshaft correct. You will see the oval slot and the end of the crank journal looks the same.

Just my 2 cents

Larry

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RE: ys 170 - shutting down - 4/8/2012 1:30 AM   
apereira


 

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From: Caracas, VENEZUELA
Status: offline 		Taylor,

Your pump is lean, the HS needle valve, peak the engine then back off 200RPM, on the pump turn clock wise about 1 or 2mm only. Move your throttle to half power and check if you have good smoke you are set, then check idle just in case.

Regards

Alejandro

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RE: ys 170 - shutting down - 4/11/2012 8:12 AM   
mongol---


 

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From: asd, ANGUILLA
Status: offline 		Ok, im very like the result , the engine works now much better rich and have a geeat smoke, thats better , no shutdown perfect with the needle too after i use with j.b weld
Now the oil dumper keeps by the way of jumping every flight so i checked the oil and made it a little bit softer but still jumping out ,, any idea ? , ofcurse now there is no backfires while starting the engine so thanks all about that and for yyour great support
Taylor

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RE: ys 170 - shutting down - 4/11/2012 1:09 PM   
apereira


 

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Status: offline 		Is the shaft side attached to the carb? or backwards? It might be worn, what oil are you using? you could put a drop of CA on the ball links and let it dry to make it a few thousands bigger to compensate for wear.

If your engine is running better you should noticed the engine sounds different in the air, melow, but not a "metalic like" sound, if this is correct you have the setting right, if not, then is still a little lean, again, the shock jumps when the engine is on the lean side.

Regards

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RE: ys 170 - shutting down - 4/12/2012 10:51 PM   
mongol---


 

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From: asd, ANGUILLA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: apereira

Is the shaft side attached to the carb? or backwards? It might be worn, what oil are you using? you could put a drop of CA on the ball links and let it dry to make it a few thousands bigger to compensate for wear.

If your engine is running better you should noticed the engine sounds different in the air, melow, but not a ''metalic like'' sound, if this is correct you have the setting right, if not, then is still a little lean, again, the shockumps when the engine is on the lean side.

Regards

Thanks , im not sure that im understand something, what is the shaft and carb,,, or backward i didnt change the orginal oil because its a new dumper , the previous one broked from one side from end so i need to order a new dumper ,, in orginal way its not too hard, its very smooth i have 600 oil if you think that i need to change,
Thanks again , taylor

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RE: ys 170 - shutting down - 4/13/2012 12:07 AM   
apereira


 

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Taylor,

I apologize, I wrote it wrong, I am attaching a picture of my instalation, try changing the oil to 500, as it will reduce the work of the shock a bit, remember about the CA drop on the ball link.

What about the description of the YS sound in your engine? I know it is very difficult to tell, but with the changes you have done, your engine sound should be different know, can you tell? especially in the air.

Regards

Alejandro

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RE: ys 170 - shutting down - 4/13/2012 11:43 AM   
mongol---


 

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From: asd, ANGUILLA
Status: offline 		thanks again,

Your picture very help to understand so ,, my dumper is exactly installed as yours,, and the sound of the engine great , i must say that the rpm is still 8000 but the sound , a beautyfull sound
its very smooth from idle to full, another thing that i saw :

becasue my carbon prop every landing before i touch in the ground i shutting down the engine so i save the prop from the stones and every **** on the ground that wanna jump to the engine..
after that i want to start the engine for the next flight there is a little diffuclty ,,, sometimes the engine start and want to burn the left fuel in the engine and shutting down at idle,,
and only after that i can start again ... im not sure about that and why its happens..
in the air the engine sound very quiet ,, every landing its very nice to see the airplane arrive to the landspace with a beatyfull smoke...

so i'll try to change the oil dumper, with an oil 500 . . and give some result but i think that its important to check the starting issue? \


thanks very much all,

Taylor

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RE: ys 170 - shutting down - 4/13/2012 6:39 PM   
apereira


 

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From: Caracas, VENEZUELA
Status: offline 		That happens when the pump is hot, what temperature do have at the field? and try richening the pump 1mm more.

Regards

Alejandro

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RE: ys 170 - shutting down - 4/14/2012 6:17 PM   
mongol---


 

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From: asd, ANGUILLA
Status: offline 		oh i think that i missed something,

i didnt touch on the pump, i riching the engine by open few click with the high speed needle...
im not sure but where is the pump's needle?

another thing that could be the problem... i tried to check the Tappet adjusment ,, im not sure untill today how to perfect calibrate that so i try to put it back,,, maybe there problem is with the Tappet adjusment ?? if so please let me know how to check it by the easy way ,,, im not sure after reading the manual ... what should be the place of the prop ? what is the "Top dead center on the compression stroke " ?

Thanks again ,. i;ll try the option wit the pump just let me know how to do this. and if i need to disassemble the engine ?




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RE: ys 170 - shutting down - 4/16/2012 4:27 PM   
apereira


 

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From: Caracas, VENEZUELA
Status: offline 		Hello Taylor,

The pump has a flat screwdriver bronze bolt on the front, turn it clockwise (looking at it, or front to back) about two times the thickness os the slot. clock wise to richen counter clockwise to lean it.

On the valves, yes, do the check in the compression stroke in the Top Dead Center, you can feel that by hand, turn the prop until you feel the compression, keep going until you feel the force to move the propeller desapears,that's it, as long as you have a very minute movement on the tappets you are ok, if you don't have experience doing that, don't worry, just make sure you have some almost imperceptible play, that's it. If you have the tooling set it to .001".

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RE: ys 170 - shutting down - 4/17/2012 6:48 PM   
mongol---


 

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From: asd, ANGUILLA
Status: offline 		Thanks very much , just for the knowledge, at the past i remmember that it took me 2 days to find the possition withe the regulator, after that i need to check the high speed needle so my question is, if there is a too much parameters that i changed how can i be sure when i need to change the pump valve ,, in adittion i know that the regulator affect on the low speed at idle and the transision to high full throttle am i wrong? And ofcurse how can i know if the tappet adjusment wrong ,,?, hope that i wrote it right ,, again thanks for everything ill try the pump chanh
ges
P

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RE: ys 170 - shutting down - 5/12/2012 6:18 PM   
mongol---


 

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From: asd, ANGUILLA
Status: offline 		After the calibration at the first flight ive got a shutting down again at the final, the landaing was bad , crush the landing gear and a prop, i fix the body and everything , yesterday i tried about 3 hours to check again the problem with the engine , i change the regualtor and found that at low idle to full throttle its ok now , i rich to engine for maximum 7600 rpm , low idle is 2300 rpm and save on it , now i found at low speed if i change the model to 90 degree up the engine shutting down immidietly , at full throttle its great on 90 degree, im not sure if the check is correct, but i think that the problem , i found on the internet , there is a fuel clunk filter for ys , that connect to the fuel line in the fuel tank im not using with but again is that the problem ? Thanks again yours taylor

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RE: ys 170 - shutting down - 5/13/2012 5:12 AM   
riot3d


 

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Status: offline 		Taylor,

I'm surprise that you're having so much trouble with the 170. The original 140 DZ did have some issues, but was fixed when the 160 came out. The 170 - both the regular & the cdi version has been bulletproof for me - & the 175 is even better. Let me ask you a few questions:-

1) Did you ever break-in your engine on a test stand? If yes, for how long & how much fuel? I usually put in at least a gallon of fuel on a stand, get to know both the high & low settings well, before installing it onto the plane. Once installed onto the plane, it usually only takes me about five minutes to fine tune the pump & will be ready for flying.

2) Assuming the engine is broken in on a stand, did you ever check the valve clearance before your first flight? The way you check them is to turn the prop until the valves are in top dead center (TDC), then grab the front & back of the tappet & rock it back & forth, there should not be any play on both intake & exhaust. However, don't over tighten them.

3) You mentioned you've changed the regulator, does it mean the diaphram, or, the whole pump? If it's the diaphram, where is the adjusting screw now? If you already have hundreds of flights, then I will suggest changing the regulator spring, the pump valve springs & the pump valve as well.

4) At this point, I suggest returning everything back to factory default - high speed needle at 2 turns, pump adjusting screw flush with housing & run the engine again. Also check all of the screws - throttle body, head ...etc. Make sure they are all snug but not over tighten. Also, check the filter & fuel lines.

After you have started the engine, let it warm up by gradually advancing to full throttle. Adjust your high needle to max rpm, then back off about a 1/4 turn.

Point the nose upward to 45 degrees at idle, if it speeds up, richen the pump. If it slows down, lean the pump - 1/8 turn at a time.

5) Depends on what size of prop you're using, 7,600 is ok but sounded like a bit under prop to me, & 2,300 idle is too fast. If it is properly adjusted, you should be able to slow it down to 1,800. I'm using a 20x10.5 PN on 30% heli fuel, maxed at 7,100, idle at 1,700.

6) The foam clunk will definitely help, but shouldn't affect the engine that much.

7) When you raise the nose of your plane, does the idling speeds up, or, gradually slowing down before it stops running. If it speeds up, the pump is lean.

It sounded like the engine is not yet fully broken in, hence giving you all the problem.

Be advised, when you tune the engine on the ground, make sure either the bellypan or chin cowl is off. Otherwise, you can over heat the pump & making it runs erratically.

Hope this helps.

Adrian

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RE: ys 170 - shutting down - 5/14/2012 11:36 AM   
mongol---


 

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From: asd, ANGUILLA
Status: offline 		hi riot, thanks for your answer,

after checking your comment i tried to get understand everything as you mentiod;

im not sure about the break-in engine, but i never tried to run the engine on a stand, ofcurse on the model but without the bellypen.
im using with 30% cool power too, of heli- prop meijzlik 18X10 ,

i checked the valve and its ok, i tried to change only the regulator, and never try to change the pump..
at 45 Degree the sound of the engine is a little bit slowing down, but im not sure mayb i'll do the test with my RPM metter to check this.

the max lowest RPM was 1800 RPM stable for 2 minutes and then the engine start to make a problem and shutting down.

if i need to rebreak-in if im understand right- what is the right way for now ( the engine does a 40 flights for maximum ) ..

Thanks again
Taylor

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RE: ys 170 - shutting down - 5/16/2012 5:01 AM   
riot3d


 

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Status: offline 		>> at 45 Degree the sound of the engine is a little bit slowing down, but im not sure mayb i'll do the test with my RPM metter to check this.

If the idle rpm slows down when you point the nose up, the pump could be rich. If high speed is fine, don't touch the high needle any more, concentrate on the pump. Gradually lean the pump by turning it 1/8 at a time, until it starts
to speed up on idle, then you can back off 1/8 to 1/4 turn. You may have to richen your high needle slightly afterward.


>> the max lowest RPM was 1800 RPM stable for 2 minutes and then the engine start to make a problem and shutting down.

If it can idle stable for 2 minutes & you can still throttle up smoothly, you have the correct mixture.


>> if i need to rebreak-in if im understand right- what is the right way for now ( the engine does a 40 flights for maximum ) ..

If you have over 40 flights on the engine, it should be well broken in. Unless, you overheated the engine from the beginning to cause some internal damage ...



< Message edited by riot3d -- 5/16/2012 8:13 AM >

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RE: ys 170 - shutting down - 5/16/2012 9:32 AM   
mongol---


 

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From: asd, ANGUILLA
Status: offline 		hi riot thanks again, i did the test so here the result :

i found that on 45 degree the engine slowing down, so i lean the pump as max to check when the engine speed up and then back a little bit as you mentiond and its looks correct now ,
but..
when i move the nose up to 90 degree its still immidiately slowing down and shutting down... errrrr

so we fix 1 thing and we still have the same problem/ or the check should be down only at 45 degree and not at 90 degree... ?,,, any idea ?\

Thanks, Taylor.

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