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Parkzone Extra 300: Performance too high for my skill l... - 4/4/2012 10:56 PM   
TTMT


 

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I bought a Parkzone Extra 300 probably two months ago.  I just flew it for the first time last Friday and found it to be a handful for my skill level.  [My skill level is...  I can fly my SkyFly trainer, Parkzone P-47 and a couple of ultra-micros around okay - basic flight, no aerobatics.]  On the G6 sim, I found sport planes like the Extra 300 fairly easy to control - nice tracking - so I thought it would be a good choice for my next plane.  I was surprised at how different this model was from similar models on the sim.

For the maiden flight, the 300 had 70% expo on all flight surfaces, but it reacted very sharlply to seemly very little input.  Out of three short flights, I landed it okay once, and crash landed it two other times - breaking off the main gear each time (easy to repair). 

What would be recommended for calming down the flight performance?  I want to reduce travel on all the flight surfaces, but I don't know where to start with the adjustments. 

I appreciate any advice.




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RE: Parkzone Extra 300: Performance too high for my ski... - 4/5/2012 3:07 AM   
kenh3497



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Status: offline 		The first thing is to check the balance point to see if it is within the MFG specs. If it is in spec, set it to the forward (nose heavy) setting Set the control surface throw to the minimum recommended amount. Do this by changing the linkage (out on the control horn, in on the servo) not just dialing down the servo throw. You loose resolution from reducing the servo throw. Have a more experienced pilot fly the plane for you and make some recommendations on what to do to tame the beast.

With the above said... If the plane is VERY tail heavy, get the center of gravity set first. The control throws may be OK where they are at. IMO 70% expo is WAY to much. But, I'm a bit old school

Good luck!

Ken

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RE: Parkzone Extra 300: Performance too high for my ski... - 4/5/2012 3:54 AM   
Redback



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Status: offline 		Another thing to check is did you have the expo the right way.

I recently bought a new JR 2.4 and it took a fair bit of head scratching to figure which way to go, the graphic display seemed to be at variance with the numbers I was putting in.

As Ken says, 70% is a lot, put it in the wrong way and you would get a wild ride!

Terry

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RE: Parkzone Extra 300: Performance too high for my ski... - 4/5/2012 4:19 AM   
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Status: offline 		Wow, both comments are very helpful!  I'll look into all your suggestions and let you know how it goes. Not sure when I'll get back to the field. May be several days. 

Thanks so much. 



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RE: Parkzone Extra 300: Performance too high for my ski... - 4/5/2012 4:39 AM   
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Status: offline 		I agree with the others that your control throws are probably way too high. You may have it set up with 3D throws and CG, which would explain why it's uncontrollable with any speed.

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RE: Parkzone Extra 300: Performance too high for my ski... - 4/5/2012 9:19 AM   
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Status: offline 		A friend of mine, a guy that is by no means to be considered a beginner, had one. Key word is "had"............that thing is a twitchy plane no matter what he did. One of the few Parkzone planes that isn't fun to fly.

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RE: Parkzone Extra 300: Performance too high for my ski... - 4/5/2012 4:11 PM   
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Status: offline 		I would go along with what Terry and Ken said. I'm no beginner at all and I just finished assembling a pair of Aeroworks 260 electric ARFs. Maiden was last week for both of them. Wow, talk about twitchy!!! I almost lost the second one that belonged to a friend. I had both CGs set to the instructions and a bit more nose heavy, plenty of expo. Both planes required nose weight, about 1/2 ounce before they could be flown. Something to keep in mind, these planes are a learning tool for most pilots wanting to learn 3-D so the manufactures may have little things like the CG set as such. The AW Extras sure were. As the pilot I'm in charge of the control inputs so I don't worry about the throws very much. It is only as much as I move the sticks. I have mine on triple rates but only used the low and super highs to see how the plane would react, I like it!! I hve set up a radio {JR} with the expo wrong, I fly with Futaba and they are backwards to each other. That can really turn a plane into a touchy beast. I'm betting you need a bit more nose heavy and check the expo.

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RE: Parkzone Extra 300: Performance too high for my ski... - 4/5/2012 4:23 PM   
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Status: offline 		Thanks for the added advice.


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RE: Parkzone Extra 300: Performance too high for my ski... - 4/5/2012 5:09 PM   
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Status: offline 		Thanks again to everyone.  I decided to list it on RcUniverse.


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RE: Parkzone Extra 300: Performance too high for my ski... - 4/5/2012 10:52 PM   
tacx



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Status: online 		If you have a Spektrum TX (not sure about the others) and you had minus (-) 70% expo, you went the wrong way and the plane would be extremly sensitive. Plus (+) 70% is what you would need. Just a thought.

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RE: Parkzone Extra 300: Performance too high for my ski... - 4/5/2012 11:36 PM   
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Status: offline 		Yes, I've thought about his.  I have +70%, using a DX6i.  It's probably just too much plane for my skill level.

Thank you for the input, though.


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RE: Parkzone Extra 300: Performance too high for my ski... - 4/6/2012 10:35 PM   
speedracerntrixie


 

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Status: offline 		IMO you are just fightning a bad setup. Although this airplane is capable of some pretty wild aerobatics, It can be set up to fly as easily as a low wing trainer. 70% expo may be doing more harn then good. It tends to make all the throw happen at once. If you were to approach me at the flying field and ask for help these are the items we would go through.

1. Make sure the CG is set  at the forward side of the range indicated in the instructions.
2. all control surfaces are nuetral with all trims at zero.
3. Evevator throw no more then 20 degrees, rudder and ailerons at 30 . On a model this size, 20 degrees at the elevator would be about 1/4"
4. Expo set to 35%.

Compare this to what you actually have. my guess is that you are just running too much throw.


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RE: Parkzone Extra 300: Performance too high for my ski... - 4/6/2012 10:46 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: speedracerntrixie

IMO you are just fightning a bad setup. Although this airplane is capable of some pretty wild aerobatics, It can be set up to fly as easily as a low wing trainer. 70% expo may be doing more harn then good. It tends to make all the throw happen at once. If you were to approach me at the flying field and ask for help these are the items we would go through.

1. Make sure the CG is set  at the forward side of the range indicated in the instructions.
2. all control surfaces are nuetral with all trims at zero.
3. Evevator throw no more then 20 degrees, rudder and ailerons at 30 . On a model this size, 20 degrees at the elevator would be about 1/4"
4. Expo set to 35%.

Compare this to what you actually have. my guess is that you are just running too much throw.



Thanks for the advice.  If the plane doesn't sell - and it may not given the undercarriage was broken off twice - I'll go back and try it again using your set-up instructions.

I definitely appreciate the help.


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RE: Parkzone Extra 300: Performance too high for my ski... - 4/10/2012 5:30 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: speedracerntrixie

IMO you are just fightning a bad setup. Although this airplane is capable of some pretty wild aerobatics, It can be set up to fly as easily as a low wing trainer. 70% expo may be doing more harn then good. It tends to make all the throw happen at once. If you were to approach me at the flying field and ask for help these are the items we would go through.

1. Make sure the CG is set  at the forward side of the range indicated in the instructions.
2. all control surfaces are nuetral with all trims at zero.
3. Evevator throw no more then 20 degrees, rudder and ailerons at 30 . On a model this size, 20 degrees at the elevator would be about 1/4"
4. Expo set to 35%.

Compare this to what you actually have. my guess is that you are just running too much throw.



Talk about bad setup, I decided not to sell the plane and continue trying to fly it.  Turns-out, I was all fouled up on the setup.  I had 70% for low rates (recommended in the manual) but expo was inhibited.  No wonder the plane was so twitchy.

I moved all the control surface linkages to full inside on the servo horn and full outside on the clevices to make the plane as docile as possible so I can work into it.  I actually set expo to 40% on all surfaces like the manual recommended to low rates.

I have a question.  The ailerons are deflected a bit below the trailing wing edge.  I can't find a way to adjust the subtrim on each side independently using my DX6i.  Is my only choice to remove the servos from the wings to adjust the horns and bring the ailerons into alignment with the trailing edge?




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RE: Parkzone Extra 300: Performance too high for my ski... - 4/10/2012 2:25 PM   
gaRCfield



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Status: offline 		10 degrees of control surface travel for smooth, controllable flying.

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RE: Parkzone Extra 300: Performance too high for my ski... - 4/11/2012 3:19 AM   
Redback



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Status: offline 		If the ailerons have separate servos connected to separate channels you should be able to use sub trim. Usually one servo connects to the Rx aileron channel, the other to Aux 1.

If you have a Y lead or a single servo operating both ailerons sub trim just won't work.

In any case the first option should be to fix the problem mechanically by adjusting linkages before reaching for the sub trim.


Terry

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RE: Parkzone Extra 300: Performance too high for my ski... - 4/11/2012 3:01 PM   
Flyin Beagle



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Status: offline 		I am glad to hear you decided to keep it. I have one of these planes and now that I figured it out, it is that one plane that always goes to the field with me no matter what.

First thing I learned about this plane is regarding the CG. I fly with a 3S 2200 Lipo. I found that if you put the battery in the plane where recommended you will be waayyyyy tail heavy. I carved some foam from the battery slot up towards the motor mount and fly mine with the battery shoved as far forward as I can get it. It is so far forward that the back edge of the battery pack is in front of where the wing tube crosses. Secondly as recommended above on low rates 10 degrees is plenty. The elevator is extremely sensitive on this plane less is better. It doesn't take much to have it dancing all over the sky. I have my high rates set to max deflection with a good bit of expo and it can do anything you throw at it. It will practically loop in its own length. The landing gear block is notoriously weak on this plane. I only use the gear on paved runways. I always belly land on grass. I don't put the side fairings on the gear so they can be snapped on and off very easily depending on the field I choose to fly at.

Once set up properly I believe you will find this plane to be a joy to fly. I am not familiar with a DX6 so I cant offer any advice for sub trims, but I usually prefer to make the mechanical adjustments first anyways. The surfaces should be centered for the plane to fly well. With a little experimentation I believe you will really like this plane.

Good luck.

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RE: Parkzone Extra 300: Performance too high for my ski... - 4/11/2012 5:28 PM   
TTMT


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks, guys.  Yes, I know you're right about mechanically setting the adjustments before turning to subtrim.  It's the same with helis.

I was trying to avoid taking the servos out of the wings, but I can preserve the orange tape that covers the wire leads by carefully cutting it insttead of pulling up the tape (and tearing off the paint finish).  Clear packaging tape will close things back up afterward.

I have not yet measured the deflection in the flight surfaces (in degrees, anyway).  I moved the linkages (ailerons still to be done) to the most docile - inside on servo/outside on clevice.  Comparing the movement in mm versus those in the manual, I now have even less than the manual indicates for docile setup.  I'll try to get the setup closer to what you described.

I'm lucky to have a paved runway at our club field.  I can see where the wheel pants and farings could be a problem trying to fly from grass. I'm not sure when I'll get back to the field, but I'll let you know how it goes.

I sure appreciate everyone's help.


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RE: Parkzone Extra 300: Performance too high for my ski... - 4/11/2012 7:37 PM   
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Status: offline 		The true fact about RC is if you don't push yourself you'll never get better. This plane will be very good for you. Look how much you've already learned about radio set up and balance. your going to be much better pilot because of this plane. Have fun with it. Maybe someday you'll be fly a 40% gasser. Dennis

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RE: Parkzone Extra 300: Performance too high for my ski... - 4/12/2012 5:53 PM   
loser


 

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Status: offline 		Keep it and get it set up "correctly". I have been flying a long time and this is by far the most fun electric foamy that I have flown. It is an excellent pattern/IMAC type of flyer. Not a good 3d'er but is "tight" (good precision/resolution) tracts well and snaps very good plus excellent power with the stock set-up. I mainly fly large gas and only dabble in electrics. it has always frustrated me in the past the marginal power many "out of the box" planes had....not this one.

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